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Featured OSAS does not survive the "sola scriptura" test. Now what?

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by BobRyan, Jun 5, 2018.

  1. Nicolaus Mourer

    Nicolaus Mourer Call me Nic. Supporter

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    Repenting from sin is considered works according to Jonah 3:10. Repenting from sin is not a bad thing, and I'm not saying that; but repenting from sin, or turning from evil does nothing for our salvation and is in no way a condition of it. We're justified by faith alone, just like your name says. Turning from sin has nothing to do with faith - a person who doesn't believe in Christ can turn from evil or repent from sin. Ceasing from sin is following the law, because sin is the transgression of the law (1 John 3:4), therefore, repenting from sin has nothing to do with salvation, and you will not find a verse in the Bible that says we must repent "from sins" to be saved, because repenting from sin to be saved is trying to be justified by the law, which no man can be (Galatians 2:16, Romans 3:20).

    Remember, to repent means "to turn from something or to change from something": so when the Bible says repent, it is always talking about repenting from disbelief and coming to believe, or repent and be converted. Again, this is a repentance that is going from faithlessness to faithfulness: it has nothing to do with the condition in which we live, because we have all sinned and fallen short (Romans 3:23), and there is nothing we could do to earn our way to heaven, no matter how many sins we repented of.

    Which by the way, repenting from sin altogether is physically impossible for any person while on earth, so it would be foolish to think that repenting from sin is a condition of our salvation, since none can say they've stopped sinning (Proverbs 20:9, Ecclesiastes 7:20), and therefore do not deserve judgement and damnation as a result.

    Ephesians 2:8-9 "For by grace are ye saved through faith, and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast." A person that cleans up his life to be saved can boast, but none can boast because none can repent from sin good enough to get into heaven.
    Romans 4:5 "But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness." Again, it is just by faith, not works.

    If you are repenting from your sin and do so as a condition of your own salvation, are you really trusting Jesus Christ completely? Are you really saying he is your savior, or are you in fact attempting to save yourself by living a sanctified, holy life? Remember, all our righteousness' are filthy rags before God (Isaiah 64:6), and there is none good, no, not one (Romans 3:10).
    The will of God is for us to be perfect (Matthew 5:48), but we know none are (Romans 3:10).

    What God desires for us, and what God desires of us are by all means associated, but are not the same thing. Fornicators, murderers, blasphemers, adulterers, etc. are by no means to enter the kingdom of heaven; even all liars are doomed to an eternity of hellfire (Revelation 21:8), but through Christ Jesus and through trusting him alone as our savior, we receive his righteousness, which is the only sufficient righteousness able to save us, which covers and takes away from us all transgressions. The fact is, that the value of Christ's sacrifice is the value of the unsearchable righteousness of God since Christ is God (1 Timothy 3:16), therefore, by simply believing/trusting him, we're secured. It doesn't matter what we do or don't do other than that, because nothing else can pay the debt we would owe to God, if we were justified by anything other than his grace: grace being that which we don't deserve, and mercy being us kept from that which we deserve.

    God desires for us to be perfect, but God only desires of us to believe on the name of his only begotten since we cannot fulfill his desire for us.
     
  2. amariselle

    amariselle Jesus Never Fails

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    I guess you're just going to need to rightly divide the word of truth so that you can discern when God is speaking of eternal life and eternal damnation, and when He is speaking of physical life and physical death.
     
  3. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith justified sinner

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    I already covered this. Just read 2 Corinthians 5:21. God made Him to be sin for us who knew no sin (Jesus) that we might become the righteousness of God in Him. He made His soul an offering for sin (Isaiah 53:10).
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2018
  4. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith justified sinner

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    Isaiah 28:9-13 says,

    Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts. For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people. To whom he said, This is the rest wherein ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear. But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

    I apply this scripture by exhorting that every Christian in their devotional time ought to read entire books so that they might understand everything in its context; and that playing such things as Bible roulette is a no-no.

    However, it is clear from scripture that one of the ways that the Holy Spirit teaches is through our comparing scripture with scripture; in other words, getting it here a little, there a little; precept upon precept, precept upon precept, line upon line, line upon line (1 Corinthians 2:13--"Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual"). And yet in this passage in Isaiah we find that the purpose of this is so that the people who learn this way might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

    But I believe there is an exception to this rule. In context of the Isaiah passage, in Isaiah 28:16, we find the words,

    Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste.

    Jesus is this sure foundation and precious corner stone (1 Corinthians 3:11, Ephesians 2:10).

    If we do not build our understanding (which must come to us precept upon precept, precept upon precept, line upon line, line upon line, here a little, and there a little) upon the sure foundation of Jesus Christ, then it is so that we may go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

    But I believe that we will escape such a bad fate as this if we receive Jesus Christ as our Lord and Saviour, and build our understanding on the foundation of knowing Him.

    John 1:12 says, But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name.

    Romans 10:9 says, That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

    Romans 10:13 says, For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

    Acts 4:10-12, Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand before you whole. This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner. Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

    And finally Hosea 14:2, Take with you words, and turn to the LORD: say unto him, Take away all iniquity, and receive us graciously: so will we render the calves of our lips (a sacrifice of praise--Hebrews 13:15).
     
  5. EmSw

    EmSw White Horse Rider

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    Really? God said they will not die. How do you not know this is speaking of eternal life? The reason is you have an agenda to protect. If you find anywhere in the NT that says 'they will not die', you would jump all over it and say it is speaking of eternal life.

    If you say Ezekiel is referring to eternal life for the wicked who turns from his wickedness, and does what is lawful and right, it would turn your theory of salvation upside down. I know why you won't say it's not speaking of eternal life in Ezekiel. You have a lot to lose.

    Besides, you have not made one comment of God saying the wicked will not die. It's like a hot piece of metal, in that you won't touch it.
     
  6. EmSw

    EmSw White Horse Rider

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    Why are you saying this about our holy Savior? How can you say He is not upright in His spirit? Wow, the strange beliefs people have today.

    I don't know, you may even know what you're saying about the Savior. First, you take a verse out of context, and say it's talking about the Savior, then try make NT passages fit it. Second, you make a sinner out of our holy Jesus. Please don't do this. You are smarter than that.
     
  7. amariselle

    amariselle Jesus Never Fails

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    False, I have no "agenda", nor does the truth of God's word and the Gospel need my "protection", and I am thankful to God for that.

    Actually, I wouldn't. I would examine the context. As I've already pointed out, there are NT Scriptures that speak of physical life and physical death as well, not just eternal life and "the second death."

    My "theory of salvation"? You mean what Scripture plainly teaches, that salvation is in Christ alone and is by grace, through faith and not of works, as it is a gift of God? That "theory"?

    No, what I won't do is tell others that salvation is found in anything or anyone other that Christ, because, if I did I would by lying. And, I don't actually have anything to lose having trusted solely in Him for salvation.

    Actually, I have, you just don't want to accept it.

    So, I bid you good day.
     
  8. EmSw

    EmSw White Horse Rider

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    Actually, you haven't. Tell us what it means for the wicked who turn from their wickedness, and do what is lawful and right, not to die. Just what does it mean, 'will not die'?

    That, you haven't touched. What does it mean, 'he will not die'?
     
  9. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith justified sinner

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    Matthew 3:8-12, Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance. And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children to Abraham. And now also the axe is laid to the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth food fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not able to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire: Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner: but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.

    Luke 13:3, Luke 13:5, I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish....I tell you, Nay: but except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

    2 Corinthians 7:10, But godly sorrow worketh repentance unto salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

    Acts of the Apostles 2:38, Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

    Acts of the Apostles 3:19, Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord:

    Acts of the Apostles 17:30, And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men everywhere to repent.

    Acts of the Apostles 20:21, Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.

    Acts of the Apostles 26:20, But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.

    Matthew 7:23, And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

    Matthew 13:41-42, The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity: And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

    Matthew 13:49-50, So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just: And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

    1 Thessalonians 5:23-24, And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly: and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.

    Hebrews 10:10,14, By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all....For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

    1 John 3:8-9, He that committeth sin is of the devil: for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

    1 John 3:6, 1 John 2:17, Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him....And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.

     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2018
  10. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith justified sinner

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    See the above post (#974).

    Actually, the Bible speaks of repenting from uncleanness, fornication, and lasciviousness (2 Corinthians 12:21). And also, see the above post (#974). And also, Romans 3:23 tells us that we all come short of the glory of God in that we have sinned; not necessarily in that we do sin.

    It is not physically impossible. It is a work that God can do in you (1 Thessalonians 5:23-24).

    I certainly cannot boast in myself over the fact that God has cleaned up my life by bringing me to repentance: in doing so He apprehended me when I was running away from Him.

    God doesn't leave the people He justifies in an ungodly state. If He did, He would have to be an abomination to Himself, and nations also would abhor Him (Proverbs 17:15, Proverbs 24:24). In declaring a man righteous (in justification), it is impossible for God to lie (Hebrews 6:18, Titus 1:2); God calls those things which be not as though they are (Romans 4:17).

    Barnabas was a good man, full of the Holy Ghost and faith (Acts of the Apostles 11:22-24). Romans 3:10 is interpreted by Romans 3:19 as compared to Romans 6:14. Isaiah 64:6 is interpreted by Revelation 19:8.

    You're just using that verse (Romans 3:10) as an excuse; and it is answered above. Romans 3:10 is what the law says about those who are under it. If we are in Christ, sin shall not have dominion over us; for we are not under the law but under grace.

    That sounds nice and dandy. But I suggest looking at the verses in post #974. Also, God does not only justify us as believers; he sanctifies us by His blood (Hebrews 13:12, Hebrews 10:29, 1 John 1:7). He does not only impute righteousness, He imparts it (Matthew 5:6, Romans 5:19, 1 John 3:7).

    He is certainly able to sanctify us (see 2 Timothy 3:5, Jeremiah 32:17, Jeremiah 32:27, Ephesians 3:20).
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2018
  11. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith justified sinner

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    He became sin for us while He was on the Cross where He died (again, see 2 Corinthians 5:21). Today, He is risen and revived (Romans 14:9).
     
  12. Nicolaus Mourer

    Nicolaus Mourer Call me Nic. Supporter

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    Thank you for posting the scripture that we can discuss, this will help to prove my point, brother. I'm only going to be comparing scripture with scripture so that we can get the bigger picture and point, to see and determine what God is really teaching us.

    This is indeed a significant statement by John the Baptist in which he declares that these Pharisees must bring forth fruits meet (aka worthy) for repentance, and warns them not to think of themselves as justified by being the children of Abraham, because God is able to raise up fleshly children of Abraham from stones.

    John warned them not to say within themselves that thing because of this in John 8:33 which says, "They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?" John's entire point was that it doesn't matter if they are Abraham's children or not, because they are still under bondage. Bondage to what? Jesus answers it in the next verse in John 8:34, "Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin." So then, who is the servant of sin? All are, whether they be descended from Abraham or not (Romans 3:23).

    However, in the beginning of the passage of Matt 3, in Matthew 3:1-2, John the Baptist, preached in the wilderness of Judaea, saying, "Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand."

    Later on, in Matthew 4:17, Jesus began to preach and to say, "Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand."

    So, both of them said almost exactly the same thing, proclaiming the same message, which was: repent. Yet, in the parallel passage of Matthew 4:17, in Mark 1:15, we see a different account of the same event, which helps us to interpret the meaning of both John the Baptist and Jesus in the accoutn of Matthew.

    Mark 1:15 "And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel."

    Therefore, the command was indeed to repent, but to repent from disbelief and turn to belief of the gospel of Christ: NOT to repent from sins, as is so often misconstrued.

    This is why:

    When John spake of bringing forth fruits worthy of repentance, we must look carefully at the passage: John firstly calls them a generation of vipers in verse 7 of Matthew 3, and then requires them to first bring forth fruits meet/worthy for repentance. Think about that: doesn't one who is evil have to repent first to bring forth fruits? A viper can't bring forth fruits first and then repent, otherwise his fruits would be evil: he must first change to good. So, that begs the question in the verse: who is doing the repenting in verse 8? Fruits must cause repentance according to the verse, so it is in fact saying that, in order to flee from the wrath to come by God in verse 7, the men must bring forth fruits worthy of repentance - as in, fruits worthy of God's repentance from the wrath to come upon them.

    So, if we know all have sinned and earned death (Romans 3:23, Romans 5:12, Romans 6:23), and none can stop from sinning (Proverbs 20:9, Ecclesiastes 7:20), who can truly bring forth fruits meet for God's repentance of wrath? No one (Romans 3:10) - which is why Christ immediately enters the scene after John preaches this, and is declared the Messiah, because Christ is the Savior they must believe on (Mark 1:15) to be spared from the wrath of God talked about earlier (Matthew 3:7, Luke 3:7); this is why John proclaims that Jesus takes away the sins of the world in the Gospel of John's account (John 1:29).

    Essentially, John is making a requirement of them that they themselves cannot keep because it would be of works, thereby demonstrating the significance for the entrance of Jesus on the scene as the Christ (which allows men to be justified by faith in the work of Christ). John the Baptist would make a great hell-fire and brimstone preacher in today's Baptist church, but I digress.

    Also there is this little nugget of information too. Acts of the Apostles 19:4 "Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is on Christ Jesus." What's the baptism of repentance described as in this verse? Believing on Jesus Christ, not repenting from or turning from sins.

    Read the entire passage to understand the context, friend.

    Luke 13:2-5 "And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Galilaeans were sinners above all the Galilaeans, because they suffered such things? I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish. Of those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem? I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish."

    So what is Jesus' point here? The point of the passage is to demonstrate that no one is a greater sinner than another. Why? Because all have sinned (Romans 3:23). If he were instructing a person to "repent from sins," then when he asks something to the effect of, "Were their sins greater than the others?" And answers it by saying, "No, but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish," he is making the point that no matter how many sins you commit more or less than another person or what sins you commit, ALL ARE SINNERS - AND ALL WILL LIKEWISE PERISH BECAUSE OF THEIR SINS DESPITE THE GREATNESS OF THEM, because no one can keep from sinning as the Bible proves over and over again. Therefore, the repentance he speaks of CANNOT be repenting from your sins because that wouldn't make a bit of sense with the underlying point of the message, but repenting from disbelief and believing on the one who takes away the sins of the world must in fact be the repentance he speaks of.
     
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  13. Nicolaus Mourer

    Nicolaus Mourer Call me Nic. Supporter

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    What is godly sorrow? Well, actually, it's something like this: Matthew 3:6.

    But does godly sorrow save a man? No. Why? Because a man must believe on Christ to be saved (Acts of the Apostles 16:31). What does godly sorrow have to do with repentance, then? Well, it causes us to understand and accept our condition of sin and hopelessness (Romans 3:23, Ephesians 2:12), which leads us to receive Christ by faith, becoming a son of God through the Son of God, giving us a seal of inheritance (John 1:12, Ephesians 1:13). Why is it repentance unto salvation not to be repented of? Because we're sealed, and will never experience death in the fact that our salvation is not to be repented of (Ephesians 1:13, Ephesians 4:30) even though we still sin and can thereby grieve the Holy Spirit by doing so. Why do we grieve the Spirit? Because no one can say they've made their heart pure from sin (Proverbs 20:9). The sorrow of the world is something like being sad that you couldn't get the video game that you wanted. I could provide a biblical example, but I'm sure you get the idea with this one.

    Check out Acts of the Apostles 2:21, where Peter already tells them what they must do to be saved. It lines up with Romans 10:9-13 and Acts of the Apostles 16:31. Acts of the Apostles 2:38 is merely a response to being saved, not action taken to receive salvation. This also lines up with Acts of the Apostles 10:44-48, because only after the Gentiles believe did they get baptized and receive the Holy Ghost. But notice here in this passage they received the Holy Ghost (the seal talked about in Ephesians 1:13) before they even got baptized.

    "Repent ye therefore, and be converted,"

    I mean this one is pretty obvious - they are converted unto Christianity, meaning they called upon the name of the Lord (Romans 10:13). They repented from disbelief, and believed the Gospel, as described in Mark 1:15.

    What's the condition of repentance in this passage? Read the full passage and understand the context, friend.

    Acts of the Apostles 17:30-34, in verse 34, saying, "Howbeit certain men clave unto him, and believed:" They listened to the instruction of Paul in verse 30 and repented from disbelief and believed the Gospel, like in Mark 1:15.

    I mean, this one's obvious too. It's a compound declaration, which is simply the latter clause being a clarification of the former clause (if you study language structure).

    "Repentance toward God" = "Faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ." What is repentance toward God? He clarifies in the same sentence by saying it is faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.

    One could interpret it as saying repentance of sin, but that's adding to scripture, and the context only allows for the interpretation of repentance from lack of faith, because those are the words given.

    This is a good quote friend, as it can definitely be interpreted as works-salvation without any other context. However, it is not speaking of works salvation: at most, it's speaking of good works that we are created unto when we become Christians (Ephesians 2:10), not the works we do to become saved, which Ephesians 2:8-9 rejects the idea of.

    How do we know?

    Because in a verse above verse 20, in the latter half, it says, "that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me." What is the condition for forgiveness of sins and inheritance? Faith in Christ. So in the following verses, when it speaks of turning to God, what is it referring to? Faith in Christ. Are works then something that must follow after this? Well, no. How do we know? Acts of the Apostles 26:20b: "that they SHOULD repent and turn to God, AND do works meet for repentance." We know that this is what they should do, but what MUST one do to be saved? Acts of the Apostles 16:30-31, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved, and thy house."

    Use of lingual articles and auxiliary verbs are key my friend.

    Actually, the men talked about in this verse did wonderful works. We know this by the passage in verse 22. Matthew 7:21-23 "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven (Keep in mind that this is the reason for justification AND condemnation whether a person does the will of God to be justified, or doesn't do the will of God respectively). Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."

    But they were condemned despite doing wonderful works, because they did not the will of the Father, which was to know Jesus.

    John 6:40 "And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day."

    So what's the will of the Father? To believe on the Son.

    Philippians 3:9-10 "And be found in him (in Christ), not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith: that I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;"

    So how do we come to know Christ? By faith, by believing on him, which is obeying the will of the Father in John 6:40. Those men in Matthew 7:21-23 didn't believe on him, nor have faith - in fact, these are the people that tried to do the impossible task John the Baptist set forth for them to bring forth fruits worthy of repentance of God's wrath, but they couldn't, because no man can be justified by works (Titus 3:5). They didn't have the righteousness of Christ.

    Again, this is the description of those who do works to be saved - all our righteousness' are as filthy rags before God (Isaiah 64:6), and if we do works but do not have Christ, our works are but filth toward God because we do not have Christ's righteousness, even if they are the wonderful works of Matthew 7:22.

    The wicked are simply those that aren't saved, who do not believe, neither know Christ - like those workers of wonderful iniquity, who did not have the seal of God - they all will likewise perish.. why? Because they did not repent and believe on Christ like he said to do in Luke 13:5.

    This is simply a promise that God will provide his salvation to us when he comes to those who are saved, which actually backs up once saved, always saved.

    Jesus Christ is our righteousness.

    So, are you saying the Bible contradicts itself in 1 John 1:8 and 1 John 1:10, or Proverbs 20:9, or Ecclesiastes 7:20? Cause I say it doesn't.

    We must compare scripture with scripture, friend. How are we without sin if we're saved, but still in sin while saved? Well, this must be talking about the unforgivable sin, which is that which cannot be saved - the reason why is because it says he cannot commit sin, because he is born of God. Paul still sinned after he was saved after all, so we know this can't mean what you think it means.

    John 16:8-9 "And when he is come (the Spirit), he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgement: Of sin, because they believe not on me;" So what's the sin being corrected her? The sin of unbelief, and that's the only sin indicated that is corrected. Why? Because all other sin is known through the law of God, which we are not justified by (Romans 3:20).

    The unforgivable sin is the sin of blasphemy of the Spirit, which is unbelief of it's witness of Christ. When we don't believe, we blaspheme the Spirit by calling God a liar (1 John 5:10).

    Therefore, the unforgivable sin is not committable unto those that are saved. Why? Because once you believe, you are born of God (1 John 5:1), making you sealed with the Ghost (Ephesians 1:13), reproved of the sin of unbelief (John 16:8-9), and forever quickened by the Spirit (Ephesians 2:1, Romans 8:10-11) as a son of God (John 1:12); even though we still serve the law of sin in our members, we serve the law of God in our mind, soul, and spirit (Romans 7:25).

    We already discussed how we come to know Christ and that the will of God is to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.

    I hope I helped, brother.
     
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  14. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith justified sinner

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    So then, am I to repent of my repentance and simply trust that I can be lascivious in the grace of God, because I trust alone in the fact of Jesus' death, burial, and resurrection, and therefore it does not matter what I do?

    It appears to me that you are saying that I can.

    I would suggest you read Jude 1:3-4 and Jude 1:16; because you have an advantage over me in that you are exalting your own teaching over what I know to be the plain meaning of scripture, and I do not know how to answer.

    I will simply say that I believe that repentance means to turn away from sin, and that this is what I will do in my life (to continue in the direction that I have begun to walk in), even though your teaching seems to say to me (and everyone else) that turning away from sin isn't necessary. This appears to me to be turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness (NIV: a license for sinning) unless you care to elaborate on how it doesn't do this.

    I believe that God is a holy God and that He has wrath against sinful behaviour (see Ephesians 5:6, Colossians 3:6).

    God doesn't only justify us; He sanctifies us by His blood (Hebrews 13:12, Hebrews 10:29, 1 John 1:7).

    He will show His wrath against sin and is no respecter of persons (Colossians 1:25, Romans 2:11). He will not be a respecter of your person for that you say that you believe in Jesus Christ: there must be a bona fide genuine faith in you that makes you a new creature in Christ (2 Corinthians 5:17), so that sin is not the course of your life (1 John 3:5-9).
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2018
  15. Nicolaus Mourer

    Nicolaus Mourer Call me Nic. Supporter

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    If you sin on earth as a saved Christian, you'll be punished and chastised by God - so I don't recommend sinning willfully at all.

    But if you believe on Christ, and sin, nothing changes your salvation, because you have already trusted Christ alone to save you.

    I didn't say that undergoing sanctification isn't a great thing or what we're commanded to do, nor should we keep sinning or living the way we desire.

    But I'm only talking about salvation, and what must happen for that.

    The problem starts when you puff yourself up by saying that you are somehow deserving of salvation just because you cleaned up your life or live a holy life. None of us are worthy of God's salvation no matter what.
     
  16. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith justified sinner

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    edited post #979.
     
  17. Nicolaus Mourer

    Nicolaus Mourer Call me Nic. Supporter

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    I have fully explained to you with comparison of scripture what I believe, how it interprets itself; and its all based on the Bible, friend. If you desire not to trust on Christ alone as your salvation, and realize that you cannot work your way to heaven by living a good life, that's your prerogative and choice.
     
  18. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith justified sinner

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    I am not puffing myself up. But I believe in the power of God to save us, not only from the penalty of sin but its power. Revelation 3:4 tells me that the overcomers in Sardis are indeed worthy; not in their own strength but because they are clothed in the righteousness of Christ (Revelation 19:8).

    And I have not cleaned up my own life; but God has done a work in me and your teaching isn't going to change that.

    Pardon me because I am frustrated with you. You have wrapped up licentious teaching in Christian jargon and I have to say that this kind of thing is usually what causes me to fall when I can't answer it; because it is the fear of the LORD that keeps me from sinning: and when teaching comes along that removes the fear of the LORD it irks me because I know that the next thing is for me to fall because the fear of the LORD is like a barrier for me that keeps me from going over the edge.

    Consider me to be a weaker brother whose conscience doesn't allow him to sin. Maybe you are a stronger brother whose conscience allows you to sin; but you are causing me to stumble by eating in the idol's temple in front of me; or by saying that it will not hurt me to eat in the idol's temple when my conscience goes against it (see 1 Corinthians 8 to understand what I am saying).

    Your flaunting your ability to commit sins of the flesh and have no condemnation may embolden others to commit sins of the flesh when their conscience does not allow them to: and in doing this you sin against Christ because you cause to stumble the weaker brother for whom Christ died; and he may perish because of it.
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2018
  19. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith justified sinner

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    I really do trust in Christ alone for my salvation. He is the power behind the righteousness He has placed in me, which is a practical righteousness (Matthew 5:6, Romans 5:19, 1 John 3:7).

    Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not (1 John 3:6); and he who does the will of God abideth for ever (1 John 2:17).
     
  20. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith justified sinner

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    deleted.
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2018
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