OSAS does not survive the "sola scriptura" test. Now what?

[EmSw]

The just shall live by faith. Habakkuk 2:4.

I think the word live is a derivative of the word life.

Good try, but faith there is faithfulness. That means to be faithful, steady, stable, and firm. It's a way of life, not the cause of life. If one is a just husband, he should live faithfully to his wife. In the same manner, if a man is just, he should live faithfully to God.

 

[amariselle]

Look, I don't know why you won't give one OT passage which tells how they received life. I don't know what you are trying to hide. I gave several and it was a piece of cake. Here, I will give two again to show you how easy it is.

Proverbs 7:2
Keep my commandments, and live; and my law as the apple of thine eye.

Ezekiel 18:21
But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.

I addressed that already. Not all references to “life” and “death” in Scripture are in regard to “eternal life” or “the second death.”

When it comes to salvation and eternal life, that is found in Christ alone.

 

[justbyfaith]

Why do you say I attempt to keep that commandment in the power of the flesh? Why do so many think the law is some kind of evil for believers? Why not say I keep that law because it is written in my heart?

You are the first person I know where love comes flowing without any thoughts of hatred, contempt, or bitterness towards others. Congratulations. Most people, believers included, have to battle against hatred towards others. But that is good of you. Keep it up.

It is not me: it is the Holy Spirit in me that does the loving. And I am not perfect in that love; when I take back my own life I end up failing to love as commanded; and it is only when I let Jesus live in me and through me that I evidence that fruit of the Spirit, which is love. Now thank you for the compliment; however if it is genuine I give all glory and honour to Jesus Christ.

Now as concerning why I say that you are attempting to keep the commandment in the power of your flesh, consider and think upon the following scripture and what it means for you:

Galatians 3:1-3, O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that you should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? Are ye so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

 

[EmSw]

I addressed that already. Not all references to “life” and “death” in Scripture are in regard to “eternal life” or “the second death.”

When it comes to salvation and eternal life, that is found in Christ alone.

So you don't think it refers to eternal life. Do you think it is talking about temporal life? God says the wicked who turn from their wickedness and do what is lawful and right will live, and not die. If they do not die, how is it you think it means temporal, earthly life? Something just doesn't click with your explanation.

 

[justbyfaith]

Good try, but faith there is faithfulness. That means to be faithful, steady, stable, and firm. It's a way of life, not the cause of life. If one is a just husband, he should live faithfully to his wife. In the same manner, if a man is just, he should live faithfully to God.

It does mean faithfulness; but it is referring primarily to faith in Jesus Christ per John 3:16.

 

[amariselle]

So you don't think it refers to eternal life. Do you think it is talking about temporal life? God says the wicked who turn from their wickedness and do what is lawful and right will live, and not die. If they do not die, how is it you think it means temporal, earthly life? Something just doesn't click with your explanation.

Did God not punish people for disobedience with physical death? I think there are many such examples in Scripture. There are examples of this not only in the OT, but the NT as well.

 

[EmSw]

It is not me: it is the Holy Spirit in me that does the loving. And I am not perfect in that love; when I take back my own life I end up failing to love as commanded; and it is only when I let Jesus live in me and through me that I evidence that fruit of the Spirit, which is love. Now thank you for the compliment; however if it is genuine I give all glory and honour to Jesus Christ.

Now as concerning why I say that you are attempting to keep the commandment in the power of your flesh, consider and think upon the following scripture and what it means for you:

Galatians 3:1-3, O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that you should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? Are ye so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

Yes, it was a genuine compliment.

I'm a little puzzled about 'not obeying the truth statement'. Isn't the law the truth?

Psalm 119:142
Thy righteousness is an everlasting righteousness, and thy law is the truth.

Who is bewitching the Galatians that they should not obey the law?

 

[EmSw]

It does mean faithfulness; but it is referring primarily to faith in Jesus Christ per John 3:16.

The book of Habakkuk is about the Chaldeans coming against God's people. It has nothing to do with faith in Jesus. So many lift that passage out of context, and make it means something totally different than what it says.

 

[EmSw]

Did God not punish people for disobedience with physical death? I think there are many such examples in Scripture. There are examples of this not only in the OT, but the NT as well.

But Ezekiel says they will not die. How do you justify physical death with that?

 

[justbyfaith]

The problem with the Galatians is that law-keeping was competing with faith in Jesus Christ as the means by which they were seeking eternal life.

If they put their trust in the law, they would not be trusting Jesus Christ to save them, but rather in themselves and in their own ability to keep the law. But if they put their trust in Jesus Christ, they would not be keeping the law for the sake of their being saved; the only proper motivation for keeping the law has to do with the fact that we love the Lord because we are saved: we love Him because He first loved us (1 John 4:19).

 

[justbyfaith]

The book of Habakkuk is about the Chaldeans coming against God's people. It has nothing to do with faith in Jesus. So many lift that passage out of context, and make it means something totally different than what it says.

In Habakkuk 2:2-4, God tells Habakkuk to write the statement, The just shall live by faith, down, and to make it plain on tablets, in order that he may run that readeth it. God said it was for an appointed time, yet to come, that this was written.

That time was come when God revealed the gospel of justification by faith to Paul the apostle. He read it and ran.

 

[amariselle]

But Ezekiel says they will not die. How do you justify physical death with that?

If they obey they will not die. This was part of God’s Covenant with Israel. There were promises of blessing, but there were also punishments if they turned away from God.

Again, when it comes to eternal life, that is found only in Christ our Saviour.

 

[EmSw]

The problem with the Galatians is that law-keeping was competing with faith in Jesus Christ as the means by which they were seeking eternal life.

If they put their trust in the law, they would not be trusting Jesus Christ to save them, but rather in themselves and in their own ability to keep the law. But if they put their trust in Jesus Christ, they would not be keeping the law for the sake of their being saved; the only proper motivation for keeping the law has to do with the fact that we love the Lord because we are saved: we love Him because He first loved us (1 John 4:19).

Were they putting their trust in the law or in themselves? There is a difference you know. The law does save.

Proverbs 7:2
Keep my commandments, and live; and my law as the apple of thine eye.

Even Jesus said it saves. If Jesus is the Truth, and the law is the truth, does that not make the law Jesus? Or do you think there are two truths, one against the other?

 

[EmSw]

If they obey they will not die. This was part of God’s Covenant with Israel. There were promises of blessing, but there were also punishments if they turned away from God.

Again, when it comes to eternal life, that is found only in Christ our Saviour.

So, are they walking around today? Have you talked with any who did not die from Ezekiel's time? You make a profound statement. How do you propose to back this up?

As you see, those who do not believe God's word, have to make up all kind of things to justify their belief.

 

[amariselle]

So, are they walking around today? Have you talked with any who did not die from Ezekiel's time? You make a profound statement. How do you propose to back this up?

As you see, those who do not believe God's word, have to make up all kind of things to justify their belief.

I’m hardly making things up, it’s all there to read in the Scriptures.

 

[EmSw]

In Habakkuk 2:2-4, God tells Habakkuk to write the statement, The just shall live by faith, down, and to make it plain on tablets, in order that he may run that readeth it. God said it was for an appointed time, yet to come, that this was written.

That time was come when God revealed the gospel of justification by faith to Paul the apostle. He read it and ran.

That wasn't what was to come at the appointed time. Nothing is said of the Gospel coming at an appointed time.

As I told another forum person, when you don't believe God's word, you come up with all kinds of stories. Why do people try to make God's word fit their beliefs? It's not a good thing to put God into your box. Why not admit, the wicked who turned from their wickedness, turned to God, and did what was lawful and right would live, and not die?

Now make your beliefs fit what God said here, and you are on the road to truth.

 

[amariselle]

So, are they walking around today? Have you talked with any who did not die from Ezekiel's time? You make a profound statement. How do you propose to back this up?

As you see, those who do not believe God's word, have to make up all kind of things to justify their belief.

Also, please kindly refrain from stating that I do not believe God’s word.

 

[EmSw]

I’m hardly making things up, it’s all there to read in the Scriptures.

The Bible does not say the wicked who turn from their wickedness are still living today. But it does say they will not die. You so much want that to mean physical death, but I'm sorry, it's not about physical death, it's about eternal life.

 

[EmSw]

Also, please kindly refrain from stating that I do not believe God’s word.

Show me you believe His word, and I'll jump up and down for you. Show me you believe God was talking about eternal life in Ezekiel and I'll rejoice with you.

 

[justbyfaith]

That is an interesting point; because I have considered that the law is Jesus when reading in Romans 9:30-33. Therefore Jesus and the law are a stumblingstone that people stumble at, because they, in seeking to establish their own righteousness, do not submit to the righteousness of God (Romans 10:1-4). Those who attempt to enter in through law-keeping stumble at that stumblingstone; while those who enter in by faith attain to the righteousness of faith (Romans 9:30-33).

In Psalms 119:66 the Bible says, Teach me good judgment and knowledge: for I have believed thy commandments.

From this I have come up with the teaching that they are not the ten commandments but the ten promises: Not "DO NOT..." but "THOU SHALT NOT..." These are promised to the one who has faith in Christ, that they will be able to walk in the righteousness of the ten PROMISES (see Ezekiel 36:25-27).

re #938. To @EmSw.