Orthodoxy & Comics: Is Paganism and the Old Ways being brought back via Comics?

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If anyone seriously thinks the abortion that is the Thor comic series is "bringing back paganism", they really need to read the Elder Eddas and see what said paganism actually is.
The Elder Eddas are rather fascinating as it concerns the poetic format/stories shared..although in reading them, it is rather interesting to see how they echo some of the things shared in Thor in its stylization of things.

And to be clear with the OP, it's not only Thor that seems to bring in elements of paganism blantantly. For some rather blantant examples of where paganism seems to be rather plain, I'm remidended of the Wonder Woman series.

The comic series of Wonder Woman showed the Amazon tribes worshipping their gods and Wonder Woman giving thanks to them. For a good resource detailing the ways Wonder Woman's religion shows up:






As they said best:
Since this influential comic book super hero character was first created by polygamist feminist psychologist William Moulton Marston in 1941, Wonder Woman's origins and continuing storylines have been tied intricately to Greco-Roman mythology. The ancient Greek and Roman pantheon consisting of Zeus, Hera, Poseidon, Hades, Athena, etc. have always been rendered as explicitly real in Wonder Woman's universe. This pantheon is also known as the Olympians, or the gods of Olympus, named after Mount Olympus, the mountain in Greece which was until recently their home.

The Amazon civilization into which Wonder Woman was born (or sculpted, technically) was created by these Greek gods, and Wonder Woman's powers derive from them. The Amazons of lived on the island of Themyscira, which was, until recently in DC Comics continuity, located in the Atlantic Ocean.

Wonder Woman could be said to be a "pagan" in the word's contemporary religious sense, although this does not appear to be a word she regularly applies to herself. Religious ritual and worship of the Greek gods is explicitly a part of the Amazon culture where Princess Diana was raised. While in her native Themyscira, Diana daily went to the Olympian temple and gave thanks before statues of the Olympian gods. She has also met these gods in person, and sometimes battled the less benevolent among them (such as Ares, the god of War, and Zeus's son, the demigod Heracles). Given Diana's firsthand experience with the Olympian gods, it would make little sense for her to not believe in these Olympian gods. One could conclude that Diana has little choice but to be a Greco-Roman classical religionist. Whatever the degree to which Diana has free will in the matter, she has enthusiastically and consciously embraced her role not only as a heroine, but also as the Themysciran ambassador to the world and as the Olympian gods' representative to mortal humanity.



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Princess Diana (Wonder Woman) was killed once by the demon Neron and the evil Dr. Doris Zeul. From: Beatty, page 31:
While the JLA [Justice Leage of America] and the rest of Diana's extended family were numb with grief, Hippolyta [Diana's mother] refused to lose faith in miracles. The woman who had once prayed toher gods to breathe life into a clay doll beseeched the godess Hera to restore Diana. And with a flash of golden fire, Wonder Woman was reborn!
For Hera, the simplest way to resurrect Diana was to turn her into a goddess. Diana became the Goddess of Truth and took her rightful place on Mount Olympus. For a time, Hippolyta assumed the mantle of Wonder Woman. Soon, however, Diana came to feel that her true place was on Earth. Without regret, she returned to the mortal plane so that the one true Wonder Woman might continue her quest for peace.

WonderWoman_5.jpg

ABOVE: Hippolyta prays to Hera for the life of Diana (Wonder Woman).
..........When the Crisis on Infinite Earths cross-over event shook up the DC Universe in 1985, it was established that Wonder Woman had never previously been introduced to the world at large before that time. Yet the legend of Wonder Woman was not entirely purged from DC history. Although Princess Diana's introduction to "Man's World" was pushed forward in time to become a contemporary event, it was retroactively established that Wonder Woman had indeed fought alongside the Justice Society of America during World War II - it was simply a different Wonder Woman. Current official DC history has established that Queen Hippolyta herself ventured away from Paradise Island as the superheroine named Wonder Woman. Princess Diana later took up the mantle of Wonder Woman, basing her costume on the one worn in previous decades by her mother.

WonderWoman_6.jpg
More was said besides that in the link discussing Wonder Woman's religion...as there were other superheros who were also followers of the Greek gods in both Marvel and D.C--and for more one can go here to Famous Greco-Roman classical religionists in Comics

With the pumping fists/saying "go Hera", I have seen her frequently in the comic book world reference Hera in terms of prayer for others...or exclamation of certain things when she invokes the name of her gods by saying "Hera help him" or "Great Hera" or seeks to praise them actively:






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Additionally, in a recent version of the comic book series called "Amazons Attack" (as seen here , here , and here), the Amazons went to war with mankind--in the name of their gods. When a missile was coming to one area/endangering others, WonderWoman unhooked her lasso and prayed to Athena to guide the missile somewhere safe, away from the island, but she has guided it towards the island. Wonder Woman was using all her might to stop it, but was unsuccessful. She reached behind the missile to break its cords but they regenerated like curling snakes.

She then cried out and questions why Athena was doing such a thing to her. Wonder Woman found that she had no other choice but to put herself between the island and the missile. An explosion happened, but Wonder Woman finds that she is still alive, and the island is still there. It was Athena in her physical form that stopped the missile. Wonder Woman apologised for being angry towards her and thanks Athena for stopping the missile. Athena asked why Wonder Woman was so angry towards the Gods. Wonder Woman replied that she was angry because she wondered why the Gods didn't stop the Amazons from attack Washington DC. She added that Athena could have easily stopped it all from happening with her hand, just like she stopped the missile with her hand.

But Athena replied, "... but you seem to have forgotten, or perhaps chosen to ignore... that I am also the Goddess of War... and the Goddess of Strategy..."

She wraps her hand around Wonder Woman, who is so small compared to Athena and says, "... and it is for me and me alone to say how and when and why I wave my 'mighty hand'!"

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Seeing the religion of Wonder Woman and the ways her "gods" frequently interact with her/give the impression that they're to be worshipped is hard to get past, IMHO...although they've not go so far as to say Christians don't have the freedom to do as they please.

And as said best elsewhere:
The religious cosmology of the DC Universe is complex with many pantheons of deities co-existing alongside each other. It involves elements from multiple religions, mythologies, and modern created concepts such as the Endless. It is not always clear how the Abrahamic God fits in to this — for example, one particular Wonder Woman storyline by Eric Luke featured the Greek Titans fighting Judeo-Christian angels and Hindu gods. According to writer Greg Rucka in an interview about his Final Crisis: Revelations miniseries, "The sort of unspoken rule in the DCU is that God sits above all others. And then below that you can have your New Gods and your Greek gods and whoever else you want."


DC's superhero comics have always drawn upon Judeo-Christian beliefs for plot elements — the first appearance of "The Voice" was in the 1940 origin of the Spectre — but they have traditionally used surrogate concepts and names rather than refer to the Judeo-Christian deity directly.
For references, one can go here or here at "Rucka Reveals Final Crisis: Revelations.


But as it concerns the issue of paganism not necessarily being an issue within comics when showing it alongside Christ, some of it, is similar to what occurred when Christianity became legal in the Roman Empire and other empires had similar dynamics, with it being the case that others were not trying to take away the right of others to practice/believe/declare their religious views as they wish....but more so about letting others do as they do so long as belief in God/Jesus was dominant while the believers had freedom to do as they wished. By default, anyone practicing a religion other than one devoted to Christ "pushes" their view, be it in passive ways or aggressive, since their choosing not to follow Christ places them in the category of saying that he's somehow wrong/not worth following....but there's a way to go about it thankfully when it comes to living alongside others worshipping other gods just as we live alongside people in our neighborhoods down the street---all of whom have differing beliefs, interesting perspectives and stories to tell of how they see the world. Hearing of it should not always be a threat to believers...:)


In other instances, people weren't concerned with having the dominant platform for Christ. One can see this when examining Christianity in the east. In most places, unlike in Europe, it established itself as a minority faith alongside more dominant religions. Many believers who were eventually exiled from the Eastern side of the Roman Empire (later Constantinople ) had differing experiences that parallel this...for when many of the councils were set up to determine what was "Orthodox" Christianity, those deemed to be herectics were kicked out. Others such as Nestorious were exiled to a monastery in the desert of his enemies. Consequently, the Syriac church has been called Nestorian to this day. The Christian historical scholar known as Philip Jenkins gave a more in-depth review on the issue of Christianity within the world of those who were within the "unorthodox" camps and showed how they spread the Gospel.....seeking instead to live alongside people of differing beliefs systems rather than try to make them second-class/not allowed to promote what they believe. Whereas in the West power was sought via the State/government, those who were Eastern Christians amongst the Monguls didn't try to do such. ..they were able to go about their mission of the Gospel, even reaching as far as Japan CENTURIES before anything of Catholicism/Protestanism happened there and preseting the Gospel while greatly contributing to the development of Japanese society (as discussed here, here). I was very thankful for how Jenkins noted that whereas the conversion of Europe always had the inertia and legacy of the conversion of the Roman Empire behind it, Nestorian and Jacobite Christianity never quite managed to convert a powerful political elite and reap the evangelical rewards of doing so, though Nestorianism came close with the Mongols.

Those Christians in the East never sought to abolish the rights of others to pronounce expression to other gods...and for more on what Philip Jenkins noted in his book "The Lost History of Christianity", one can go either here to Armarium Magnum: The Lost History of Christianity by Philip Jenkins. .
 
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Originally Posted by Incariol
If anyone seriously thinks the abortion that is the Thor comic series is "bringing back paganism", they really need to read the Elder Eddas and see what said paganism actually is.



Easy G (G²);60171684 said:
It's not only Thor that seems to bring in elements of paganism blantantly. For some excellent sites documenting the many religions depicted within the world of comics (including worship of other deities) and how even Christianity has been touched by them, one can go here to the following:
For some rather blantant examples of where paganism seems to be rather plain, I'm remidended of the Wonder Woman series.
Easy G (G²);60171684 said:
The comic series of Wonder Woman showed the Amazon tribes worshipping their gods and Wonder Woman giving thanks to them.






For another example of where Paganism seems to be present, I'm reminded of the hero known as Aquaman

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[/CENTER]

It is interesting to see how Aquaman shared similar ties with her in that the religion of Aquaman (Arthur Curry/Orin) was also connected with Greek culture. More specifically, the kingdom Aquaman rules over is the culture of Atlantis (as he's an Atlantean-human hybrid )--and as is the case with most Atlanteans, Aquaman can be classified as a Greco-Roman classical religionist who worships Neptune (also known as Poseidon), God of the Seas. Interestingly enough, within the comic portrayal, Atlantean Neptune worship is essentially the "state religion" of Atlantis and the majority of Atlanteans are adherents, although as is the case with most state religions, religious observance varies among individuals, from nominal to devout....much in the same way that Russian Orthodoxy is the official state religion in Russia...even though not all celebrate it out of real concern for God as much as for cultural heritage. And it's interesting seeing the differences between Wonder Woman and Aquaman since the former is more devout in her devotion to her gods while the latter isn't as "reverent" for a host of reasons.
 
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A while back I was reading my Marvel Masterworks reprints of the original issue with Colossus. Nothing like having Professor Xavier come to your Soviet commie collective farm circa 1970 and have him recruit ya! :p

Wish I never gave away all of my comics, as they were definately collector items. But with Colossus, it was always interesting to see some of the dynamics present when he joined...as there was a subtle hint of dismissiveness toward anything Soviet when they asked him to join---even though there were mutant issues within the Soviet world as well....and not all things Soviet were necessarily a negative.

What if the X-Men had been portrayed within the Soviet Union in their resistance?
 
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Gxg (G²)

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Colossus is Russian Orthodox, and when he died from the legacy virus he had an Orthodox funeral
I didn't know Colossus was RUSSIAN ORTHODOX!!! That's definately a plus.....and I'm glad that they brought him back after his death.
 
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Gxg (G²)

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Indeed. I wish they'd have explored the religious side more. Like with Daredevil and his Catholic faith being at odds with his vigilante justice stuff, that was portrayed in the comics, but overall there isn't much of any group....

Easy G (G²);60173254 said:
Meaning I wish there was more representation of comic book figures who were Orthodox rather than the small handful that seem to be present.
 
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Gxg (G²)

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Indeed. I wish they'd have explored the religious side more. Like with Daredevil and his Catholic faith being at odds with his vigilante justice stuff, that was portrayed in the comics, but overall there isn't much of any group....
They tried to do so with others in differing ways, such as Night Crawler--a Mutant who was OVERTLY Christian.

I'm reminded of what went down with X-Men, as it concerns how Wolverine will always stand out to me in the way his religious views have gone through so much transformation as a mutant/one being tormented for decades on a host of issues....and when seeing the way he interacts with God, it is always a trip---as seen here. In the animated version of X-Men back in the 90s, I was shocked seeing the ways that they took what was in the comics and brought it to life when showing Nightcrawler (a Devout Catholic) helping Wolverine come to terms with faith in the Lord--and reconcilliation despite their sins:



For more on Night Crawler's Faith:
  • Nightcrawler_03.jpg
  • UncannyXMen487_Nightcrawler.jpg


    [SIZE=-1]"Jesus died for our salvation": Kurt Wagner (the X-Man known as Nightcrawler) expresses his faith openly.[/SIZE]

I wish Night Crawler was an Eastern Catholic..but where he's at with Catholicism and showing it as strongly as he did is amazing enough...​
 
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There needs to be a superhero that's overtly Orthodox.

Maybe like Angel from X-Men, but instead of being a mutant, he's an actual angel.
Personally, although I think it'd be nice to see an overtly Orthodox hero, I'm not certain as to whether having him be a literal angel would go with the storyline/themes of having mutants that are representative of differing religions.

They did try to have angels as Superheros before, however. His name was Zauriel, sent from heaven to fight for the D.C universe with the Justice League. More specifically, Zauriel is an angel of Heaven's Eagle Host, serving the divine Presence. Having fallen in love with a human woman, he chose to fall to Earth and become a super-hero when the world was threatened by the demon known as Asmodel. He has been a member of the Justice League of America and Shadowpact...with his creation being out of necessity as a replacement for Hawkman during a time when he could not be used for publication reasons. There were elements to his comic series that seemed to invoke symbolism used in Orthodoxy--but nowhere was it said he was Orthodox.


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For more:

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Easy G (G²);60173637 said:
Personally, although I think it'd be nice to see an overtly Orthodox hero, I'm not certain as to whether having him be a literal angel would go with the storyline/themes of having mutants that are representative of differing religions.

They did try to have angels as Superheros before, however.

Hmm. That's an interesting point. What you could do is have it to where the character rarely if ever encounters the X-Men (certainly not through crossovers), and neither of their storylines are ever relevant to one another.

Easy G, I'd like your thoughts on Ultimate Nightcrawler, and his reaction to finding out that Peter is in fact a homosexual.
 
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Hmm. That's an interesting point. What you could do is have it to where the character rarely if ever encounters the X-Men (certainly not through crossovers), and neither of their storylines are ever relevant to one another..
That'd be a good way of putting it.

However, I think something to consider even as it concerns Angel Superheros is that many would perhaps consider it a bit...blasphemous..to portray the things of the heavenlies in a manner that is not fully in line with what the scriptures describe of them. This is something that has come up before whenever others see within the world of comics literally EVERY Major religion---all co existing alongside one another and even having things existing in competitition with God, such as saying the origins of the universe were not a Divine Creator...but many creators....and having the Supernatural realm include legitimate beings one could serve, be it the gods of the Shiar Empire or the Gods of the Skrull Empire, the gods of that Thor (Asgard) comes from..... or even the God's of differing mutants who serve the Earth.


In regards to angels, the X-Men series has already stated at one point that angels/demons are simply advanced mutants from ancient times that were believed to be supernatural beings. For more, one can go here.


Unless one completely rewrote the entire comic book world to show that angels/Angel Superheros are symbolic of the ONE TRUE Lord who made all, I can only imagine how many would be upset at what seems to be a pairing of Biblical ideas with paganism. Just my thoughts...



For some good sources of documentation on the ways God/Jesus have been portrayed in the Marvel Universe that X-Men comes from:

As said there, for an excerpt:
Of course there are numerous comic book characters who believe in God, pray to God, and even appear to experience miracles they attribute to God. But in addition to these "personal testimonies" of mortal characters, there have been many references within Marvel Comics stories indicating that there is indeed a supreme being of the universe.

Watcher_2.jpg
Uatu the Watcher is a member of an ancient alien race thought to be among the wisest and most knowledgeable beings in the universe. Uatu's reference to God, written by Marvel Universe co-creator Stan Lee, is compelling (see below).
Perhaps the most clear confirmations of the existence of a Supreme Being of the Marvel Universe come from the Living Tribunal, who is the most powerful being actually portrayed in the Marvel Universe (aside from God himself). Whereas God himself is rarely ever portrayed in Marvel Comics (or has never actually been portrayed, depending one how one interprets a few "possible" appearances), The Living Tribunal has portrayed with some regularity in cosmic-level stories, and is a firmly established fixture of the Marvel Universe. The Living Tribunal is apparently omnipotent, but claims to be powered by an even greater being, a being the Living Tribunal refers to as the One Above All, i.e., God.




 
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Easy G, I'd like your thoughts on Ultimate Nightcrawler, and his reaction to finding out that Peter is in fact a homosexual.

Interesting, to say the least.



...but I think that his finding out that Peter was homosexual can be seen by some as a means of changing the character (Nightcrawler) from what he was meant to represent when it came to the world of comics--and using those portrayed in ink within the Catholic faith as an apolegetic for advancing their views of homosexuality.



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For when seeing Ultimate Nightcrawler, I didn't think it was right for them to show him being one who despised Colossus for being gay.....and I didn't like the fact that they made up in the manner they did. It seemed like they took a character/stripped them of their most central traits in order to advance a message via comics that same sex relationships are not a problem and reacting to same-sex relationships as wrong is somehow a bad thing...

Truthfully, I was sadden to see the ways that they portrayed him. For after Nightcrawler felt that Colossus deliberately misled and “betrayed” him over his being gay, their relationship becomes very strained after this and never really recovers. Nightcrawler believing . This also marks a significant change in Nightcrawler’s character: much of his relationship with Colossus in the mainstream versions of them also involves Kitty Pryde (Colossus’ recurring love interest throughout most of the various X-Men chronicles)’s close relationship with Nightcrawler. In this version, however, there is no romantic relations between Pryde and Rasputin and all three characters are affected. In other versions, Nightcrawler is routinely seen as an outsider trying desperately to fit in, more so than the other X-Men, but in this one his blatant homophobia and disgust towards Colossus is a strong theme.

It does seem like there's a greater development of gay themes/pagan ideas being pushed through prominent comics...
 
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I remember in the mid-90's there was a Protestant comic line that made the Angels and Archangels like superheroes and the demons as the supervillians. I think it was called Archangels. I have a poster of it somewhere.
 
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I hope it wasn't a Calvinist comic. If that were the case, only the elect could join the Avengers, the beckoning to join the team would be irresistable, and the badguys would have total human depravity! LOL

Plus there'd be so much predestination that we'd know the ending on the first page! ^_^

I remember in the mid-90's there was a Protestant comic line that made the Angels and Archangels like superheroes and the demons as the supervillians. I think it was called Archangels. I have a poster of it somewhere.
 
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I remember in the mid-90's there was a Protestant comic line that made the Angels and Archangels like superheroes and the demons as the supervillians. I think it was called Archangels. I have a poster of it somewhere.

Actually own the entire series (and just loaned it out to another young aspiring artist who wanted to know what Christian art via comics looked like just like I did when I was younger). Indeed, the series was entitled "Archangels" (as one can go here for more), I'd HIGHLY recommend it with a quickness.

It is a nine (9) issue illustrated comic series of spiritual warfare. It tells the tale of four heavenly angels, dispatched by the Spirit of the Lord to war against the evil plotting the destruction and damnation of a young man. Clad in shining armor and wielding fiery swords, the archangels won some battles and lost others as they fought to insure the salvation of one who does not even know that they exist. But they are there, present throughout all the real-life struggles which the series uses to illustrate a message of hope through the power of faith and prayer.


Came across it when I was around 12-13yrs of age at the Christian Bookstore...loving the world of comics and having family that shared the same passion/were amazing artists and yet we felt as if there was no way for believers to have comics with a Biblical perspective that would give people the opportunity to use art to the glory of the Lord ( (more discussed here, concerning those gifted by the Lord/Spirit in the arts like Exodus 31:2-4 and other places discuss).....and I loved it, as it gave me inspiration on how believers can utilize comics for Christ.

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They did a follow up series to the entire thing detailing the Fall of Lucifer that was also rather brilliant.





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I hate the new comics. Junk. Old school all the way, baybeeeee
What in specific are you talking on that you feel is "junk" to hate? Some of the new stories were rather interesting, such as the "Operation Zero Tolerance" (even though that was from the late 90s after the Onslaught Saga)--and things like "Civil War" where the superheros in the Marvel Universe had to register with the government and fighting broke out between them was rather amazing.

But many of them, I agree, are a bit bothersome. Some of the Old school things were pretty whack as well..
 
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I guess I liken comics now vs. then to videogames now vs. then.

Nintendo Entertainment System and Super Nintendo and Sega Master System as well as Sega Genesis, all those had fun, clean, clever games. They were not 3-D and insanely realistic in the slightest but they were just plain fun.

The new video games have car-jackers, assassinations, blood and guts, murdering presidents and slaughtering people wholesale. The old games, when you shot your blaster or weapon, the enemy disappeared. It was more a game, less into realism, stark realism, that is offensive and just mind-numbing.

When I've looked at comics in recent years, they have this sense of sensuality, course language, intense violence, and they're just bombastic. I prefer the 1960's to early 1990's, just my preference. I see the new stuff as junkola.

Easy G (G²);60176382 said:
What in specific are you talking on that you feel is "junk" to hate? Some of the new stories were rather interesting, such as the "Operation Zero Tolerance" (even though that was from the late 90s after the Onslaught Saga)--and things like "Civil War" where the superheros in the Marvel Universe had to register with the government and fighting broke out between them was rather amazing.

But many of them, I agree, are a bit bothersome. Some of the Old school things were pretty whack as well..
 
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