Orthodox - death penalty

gzt

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Pope Francis is updating the CCC to say that the death penalty is inadmissible.

I say this is a good thing.

That said, we have no such authoritative overarching catechism in the OC, despite the various catechisms that have been recommended on other threads. I understand the OCA has a resolution on this matter from the late 80s, but I can't find it.

I start this thread to ask about favorite resources, but since I know it could turn into debate, I start it here.
It's something that is strongly discouraged but the Church hasn't expelled people who practice it. Here's what Basis of the Social Concept says:

The death penalty as a special punishment was recognised in the Old Testament. There are no indications to the need to abolish it in the New Testament or in the Tradition or in the historical legacy of the Orthodox Church either. At the same time, the Church has often assumed the duty of interceding before the secular authority for those condemned to death, asking it show mercy for them and commute their punishment. Moreover, under Christian moral influence, the negative attitude to the death penalty has been cultivated in people’s consciousness. Thus, in the period from the mid-18th century to the 1905 Revolution in Russia, it was applied on very rare occasions. For the Orthodox church consciousness, the life of a person does not end with his bodily death, therefore the Church continues her care for those condemned to capital punishment.
The abolition of death penalty would give more opportunities for pastoral work with those who have stumbled and for the latter to repent. It is also evident that punishment by death cannot be reformatory; it also makes misjudgement irreparable and provokes ambiguous feelings among people. Today many states have either abolished the death penalty by law or stopped practicing it. Keeping in mind that mercy toward a fallen man is always more preferable than revenge, the Church welcomes these steps by state authorities. At the same time, she believes that the decision to abolish or not to apply death penalty should be made by society freely, considering the rate of crime and the state of law-enforcement and judiciary, and even more so, the need to protect the life of its well-intentioned members.

Emphasis original.

Frankly I believe we should advocate for an end to the death penalty.
 
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Barney2.0

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The Pope is a non-trivial public figure although we are not in communion with him. Further, the RCC often addresses moral issue that concern other Christians as well.
The Pope also does claim to talk in the name of all Christians, which is something I think should be addressed.
 
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Barney2.0

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yes, there are plenty of saints that were against the death penalty. my point was just that the ancient Orthodox empires had it, and there were no mass excommunications for it.
Saint Constantine the great did approve of death penalty for rapists.
 
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Mary of Bethany

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My poor thoughts on it are that whether or not the State has the power to execute, I as a juror could not decide for that in a trial. As a poster above said, we hope for the repentance of the convicted.
 
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MariaJLM

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As far as I know we have no official stance on the issue. I've seen Orthodox Christians argue both for and against it. There's compelling arguments to be made for both sides. I'm personally neutral on it myself, considering it's not dogma.

Anyway, here's an article I saw somebody post earlier arguing against the death penalty: https://stjohndc.org/en/orthodoxy-foundation/thou-shalt-not-kill-death-penalty
 
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DavidFirth

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The Pope is a non-trivial public figure although we are not in communion with him. Further, the RCC often addresses moral issue that concern other Christians as well.

So you enjoy gossip outside of your church. Got it.
 
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All4Christ

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So you enjoy gossip outside of your church. Got it.
I haven’t seen Archer say anything that is gossip in regards to the Catholic Church. His OP just says that the pope made the stance that the death penalty is not acceptable (clarifying the CCC) and asked what the Orthodox opinion is, since we don’t have an official catechism. He also concurred with TuxAme, who is Roman Catholic.
 
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gzt

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DavidFirth

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I haven’t seen Archer say anything that is gossip in regards to the Catholic Church. His OP just says that the pope made the stance that the death penalty is not acceptable (clarifying the CCC) and asked what the Orthodox opinion is, since we don’t have an official catechism. He also concurred with TuxAme, who is Roman Catholic.

Opinion noted.
 
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Akita Suggagaki

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It's quite sad what Francis is doing to the Church. He is a shining star in the eyes of the secular world.

Sad for you that you dont appreciate his faithfulness to the Gospel.
 
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rusmeister

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I used to be convinced that the death penalty was something a Christian government couldn't tolerate. Steve Robinson convinced me otherwise, and I guarantee you, it took some convincing.
 
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rusmeister

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Steve's podcast really tears through the holes in this well-meaning misapplication of the Gospel, something meant to apply to us personally, to governments in the fallen world, something you cannot do. Forgive? Of course we, as individuals, must forgive, though I think very few of us have ever had to forgive the man who raped and murdered our daughter. It is so mindless to try to say that governments must live by the Gospel.

But rather than argue here with people who have not given Steve's words serious consideration, I'd recommend listening to them.
Capital Punishment, Part 1 - Steve the Builder | Ancient Faith Ministries
Originally intended to have four parts, he wound up doing eight, dealing with all objections people brought up along the way.
 
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~Anastasia~

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Steve's podcast really tears through the holes in this well-meaning misapplication of the Gospel, something meant to apply to us personally, to governments in the fallen world, something you cannot do. Forgive? Of course we, as individuals, must forgive, though I think very few of us have ever had to forgive the man who raped and murdered our daughter. It is so mindless to try to say that governments must live by the Gospel.

But rather than argue here with people who have not given Steve's words serious consideration, I'd recommend listening to them.
Capital Punishment, Part 1 - Steve the Builder | Ancient Faith Ministries
Originally intended to have four parts, he wound up doing eight, dealing with all objections people brought up along the way.
I don't know how I missed an 8-part series of Steve the Builder. I thought I listened to them all.

Some good points already but I'm only a few episodes in.
 
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rusmeister

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I don't know how I missed an 8-part series of Steve the Builder. I thought I listened to them all.

Some good points already but I'm only a few episodes in.
I would also say that abuses and miscarriage of justice remain evils; the only issue is whether it can be tolerated in principle. It's not a justification of how our system is run.
 
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~Anastasia~

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I would also say that abuses and miscarriage of justice remain evils; the only issue is whether it can be tolerated in principle. It's not a justification of how our system is run.
Thanks for that, and yeah so far it's just about the principle. I love how Steve is brutally honest and it often cuts the superficial levels of my own thinking on a topic (I mean how I think about why I think a certain thing). I can't always relate to everything he says but he shows the way to repentance of our own thoughts about ourselves many times.
 
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