Orthodox - death penalty

archer75

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Pope Francis is updating the CCC to say that the death penalty is inadmissible.

I say this is a good thing.

That said, we have no such authoritative overarching catechism in the OC, despite the various catechisms that have been recommended on other threads. I understand the OCA has a resolution on this matter from the late 80s, but I can't find it.

I start this thread to ask about favorite resources, but since I know it could turn into debate, I start it here.
 

Barney2.0

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Death penalty is permissible in certain cases or situations, Pope Francis is yet again altering Roman Catholic teachings regarding the death penalty. As the Roman Catholic Church was historically highly supportive of death penalty for certain crimes such as murder, it’s so sad that no Catholics speak up to the deviations Pope Francis and his like are bringing into the Catholic Church.
 
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All4Christ

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Father taught that the death penalty is wrong, since it is not our place to take human life, whether it is an unborn infant, an elderly person or a criminal.

Of course, taking a life in a war or taking life in self defense bring in some other considerations, but taking a life is never a “good” thing.
 
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All4Christ

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...The Orthodox Church in America, at its 9th All American Council in St. Louis in 1989, passed resolutions condemning both abortion and capital punishment as unrighteous and evil. Both are killing. The distinction of innocent and guilty victims, that it’s evil to kill the first and all right to kill the second— is not a New Testament concept at all. Some of us see a distinction to condemn abortion on the one hand (as it must be condemned) and then to advocate capital punishment at the same time. Such a distinction and contradiction cannot be found in the Gospel or justified by it. In reality, all such killing harms not only its victims, but also its perpetrators —and the society that espouses it.
https://oca.org/parish-ministry/familylife/capital-punishment-and-the-gospel
 
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All4Christ

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The glory of WayBack Machine :)

https://web.archive.org/web/2002041...igious.org/education/statements/orthodox.html

RESOLUTION ON THE DEATH PENALTY

August, 1989.

WHEREAS Orthodox Christians should be called to go beyond the political, social, and legal issues raised by capital punishment and recognize and address the deeper moral, ethical, and religious questions of the supreme value of human life in a manner consistent with our opposition to abortion and mercy killing, and in all such questions involving life and death the Church must always champion life; and

WHEREAS in an effort to further the respect for all human life and to witness to the redemptive nature of the Gospel of Jesus Christ who Himself prevented the legal execution of a woman (John 8:3-11) and realizing that premature death resulting from the application of the death penalty can prevent the rehabilitation, reconciliation, and redemption of the offender; and

WHEREAS, while we recognize the necessity to punish those guilty of violent crime, we also recognize that there is no humane way to execute a human being;

BE IT RESOLVED THAT the Ninth All-American Council of the Orthodox Church in America supports the abolition of the death penalty in this and all countries and does urge our elected and appointed officials in those states where prisoners are still executed to introduce and support appropriate legislation aimed at abolishing the death penalty;

BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that this Council requests all governors of states where the death penalty is still in force to halt all further executions according to the power of their office, but that legislative provisions be made for life imprisonment without possibility of parole for those subject to the death penalty;

FINALLY, BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that the Ninth All-American Council of the Orthodox church in America supports and encourages religious bodies, organizations and human rights groups which seek the abolition of the death penalty.

Orthodox Church in America

P.O. Box 675

Syosset, NY 11791

(516) 922-0550
 
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TuxAme

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Death penalty is permissible in certain cases or situations, Pope Francis is yet again altering Roman Catholic teachings regarding the death penalty. As the Roman Catholic Church was historically highly supportive of death penalty for certain crimes such as murder, it’s so sad that no Catholics speak up to the deviations Pope Francis and his like are bringing into the Catholic Church.
You're right- the Vatican even had its own executioner at one point.

Still, I fail to see why this is such a hot topic today- everyone's talking about it as if it's some earth-shattering change, a deviation from historical Catholicism. The world has progressed, and we now have means of containing the most violent offenders and keeping them there. In addition, psychology has evolved a great amount, and it will continue to do so. We can (and do) use this to our advantage to try and help rehabilitate criminals. Pope Francis wants to see us use these advances to hopefully bring these people to repentance, even if they must live out the rest of their lives in prison.

The now "old" Catechism largely condemned the death penalty as well. If I remember correctly, it also cited the fact that those of us in developed countries can reasonably contain those accused of the worst crimes. This new declaration shouldn't come as as much a surprise to the world as it has.
 
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BNR32FAN

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Father taught that the death penalty is wrong, since it is not our place to take human life, whether it is an unborn infant, an elderly person or a criminal.

Of course, taking a life in a war or taking life in self defense bring in some other considerations, but taking a life is never a “good” thing.

When we take a nonbelievers life we essentially condemn them to burn in the lake of fire by taking away their chance to repent and turn to God. I don’t want that on my conscience.
 
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All4Christ

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officially and historically, the death penalty is like war. never good ever, but has been permitted at times.
Would the church ever accept someone to be an executioner as their profession?
 
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All4Christ

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It makes no sense for us to condemn abortion and euthanasia for the elderly or ill, but support capital punishment. None of us (except for unborn infants) are free from personal sin, so we can’t say that someone is without hope. It isn’t our place.
 
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All4Christ

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the Possessor movement did, and they had saints among them.
We don’t teach that saints are perfect, and we don’t follow individual movements within the Church as gospel. What is the consensus of the Church on that? Are there canons in regards to it?
 
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archer75

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You're right- the Vatican even had its own executioner at one point.

Still, I fail to see why this is such a hot topic today- everyone's talking about it as if it's some earth-shattering change, a deviation from historical Catholicism. The world has progressed, and we now have means of containing the most violent offenders and keeping them there. In addition, psychology has evolved a great amount, and it will continue to do so. We can (and do) use this to our advantage to try and help rehabilitate criminals. Pope Francis wants to see us use these advances to hopefully bring these people to repentance, even if they must live out the rest of their lives in prison.

The now "old" Catechism largely condemned the death penalty as well. If I remember correctly, it also cited the fact that those of us in developed countries can reasonably contain those accused of the worst crimes. This new declaration shouldn't come as as much a surprise to the world as it has.
Indeed, that was my understanding of the now "old" CCC as well. But it wasn't quite as absolute in its language, which (in my limited experience) allowed some people to say of every instance that it's one of the exceptions.
 
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zippy2006

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Death penalty is permissible in certain cases or situations, Pope Francis is yet again altering Roman Catholic teachings regarding the death penalty. As the Roman Catholic Church was historically highly supportive of death penalty for certain crimes such as murder, it’s so sad that no Catholics speak up to the deviations Pope Francis and his like are bringing into the Catholic Church.

It's quite sad what Francis is doing to the Church. He is a shining star in the eyes of the secular world.
 
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ArmyMatt

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We don’t teach that saints are perfect, and we don’t follow individual movements within the Church as gospel. What is the consensus of the Church on that? Are there canons in regards to it?

I am not arguing for the death penalty. I have never read any actual canons either for or against it. I am merely pointing out that it has been used by Orthodox nations and supported by the saints of the Church. history doesn't support a flat rejection of it.

again, I am not arguing for it, just pointing out the history.
 
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All4Christ

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the Possessor movement did, and they had saints among them.
[ETA I saw your last post after I wrote this...but I still would like to post this :)]

There also are saints among the non-Possessors...and they opposed what the Possessors did in regards to capital punishment of heretics. Honestly, it’s quite appalling that they executed heretics. I’ll go with what St John Chrysostom said:

Our warfare does not make the living dead, but rather makes the dead to live, because it is conducted in the spirit of meekness and humility. I persecute by word, not by acts. I persecute heresy, not heretics. It is mine more to be persecuted, than to persecute. So Christ was victorious as a Crucified, and not as a crucifier.

Fair disclaimer: I read this quote in an article by Fr Florevsky, but I can’t find the original quote’s source.
 
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archer75

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You're not Catholics. So don't pay any attention to the pope. Your metropolitans don't, why should you?
The Pope is a non-trivial public figure although we are not in communion with him. Further, the RCC often addresses moral issue that concern other Christians as well.
 
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ArmyMatt

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[ETA I saw your last post after I wrote this...but I still would like to post this :)]

There also are saints among the non-Possessors...and they opposed what the Possessors did in regards to capital punishment of heretics. Honestly, it’s quite appalling that they executed heretics. I’ll go with what St John Chrysostom said:

Our warfare does not make the living dead, but rather makes the dead to live, because it is conducted in the spirit of meekness and humility. I persecute by word, not by acts. I persecute heresy, not heretics. It is mine more to be persecuted, than to persecute. So Christ was victorious as a Crucified, and not as a crucifier.

Fair disclaimer: I read this quote in an article by Fr Florevsky, but I can’t find the original quote’s source.

yes, there are plenty of saints that were against the death penalty. my point was just that the ancient Orthodox empires had it, and there were no mass excommunications for it.
 
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