Origin of God's Morality.

[Davian]

The Moral Argument:

Selah.

Strawmen and quote mines, to prop up a theology that boils down to, believe, or else.

Can you provide an example of an objective moral, and the means by which you made that determination?

 

[Davian]

It will be demonstrated but by that time it will be too late to do anything about it....

While I find this response to be laughable (on what other claims can we pull out "you'll find out when you die" canard? You'll know the truth behind UFOs after you die. The secrets behind 9/11 will be revealed after your final breath. Bigfoot will meet you in the afterlife.) it does beg the question:

If we are to be held accountable by this [hypothetical] god for our beliefs, would it not be morally bankrupt to do so if this same god actively evades detection? Belief is not a conscious choice; I cannot simply choose to believe something without a compelling reason.

 

[Davian]

Yes, there will be a day of judgement; the sheep on one side and the goats on the other (that means believers and non-believers in case you were wondering).

As belief is not a conscious choice, on what grounds are the "goats" being judged?

 

[Davian]

...
I agree with my brothers here. God resists the proud, but gives grace to the humble. Satan fell like lightning from heaven because of his inordinate pride. It is inordinate pride that will cause a man to be sensual. Here I am referring to the idea of relying only on one's senses, one's own capacities or abilities.

In this context, it seems you are using the word "humble" to mean "gullible".

That self-dependency and self-sufficiency that sends men straight to hell.

The act of applying reason and critical thinking to determine the validity of claims will send you straight to hell, while rape and serial killing won't. Such an odd system of morality.

The man possessed of inordinate pride essentially shakes his fist at God and at Christ and says to Him on the cross, "I have no need of your sacrifice! I can handle this on my own, and I don't need anyone or anything other than my own self, for I am sufficient unto myself."

God simply says, "Ok, have it your way."

Or, the man is simply unconvinced of the existence of gods, and carries on like they don't exist.

God responds by remaining indistinguishable from fiction.

Such a man has such a high view of himself that his view of God is to that degree the opposite. Very low. A low view of God will drastically affect one's view of sin. Sin is excused, rationalized away, or simply dismissed out of hand as an old fashioned notion.

Without gods, there is no sin.

 

[Davian]

Do you want God in you life or not?....your choice.

I do not consider belief to be a concious choice, but if you are asking what I want, it would be to have an accurate description of reality. By accurate, I mean, coherently and robustly described, supported with testable and falsifiable hypotheses and theories, and subject to change with exposure to new information.

 

[Davian]

Not when it is against everything they stand for and it convicts them....even though they won't admit it. The Great White Throne Judgement is going to interesting with all the goats vying to be 1st in line.......

Scare tactic fail.

 

[Davian]

So, challenge our beliefs. You have done a very poor job of that so far.....

I am not clear on your particular beliefs. As AP has depicted his theology in these forums, it appears to be unethical, morally bankrupt, and without evidential support, and requires a large-but-unclear amount of mainstream scientific knowledge to be wrong in order to accommodate it.

On the other hand, I know of evangelical Christians that endorse modern evolutionary theory, common descent, and modern cosmology.

Where are you in that spectrum? Old Earth or young? Literal Adam and Eve or not? Global flood, local flood? Noah's ark, or parable? There must be some kind of checklist that we could run through to sort you guys out.

 

[Root of Jesse]

Which is?

Absence of His love.

 

[Root of Jesse]

He also punishes you for not returning his "love". That isn't respecting someone's freedom. That is coercing them into feigning love to avoid punishment.

Is it punishment to give people what they desire the most?

 

[Root of Jesse]

You are implying that we are presented with a clear choice: either we want to have a relationship with this entity or we do not. However, considering that the very existence of this entity is in doubt, that is far from an accurate depiction of the situation.

It's a yes/no question. There is no dim switch. A fish in a bowl doesn't recognize the world outside the bowl, either. So are you a fish in a bowl, or do you believe in existence outside of what you can see and feel?

 

[civilwarbuff]

As belief is not a conscious choice, on what grounds are the "goats" being judged?

By their choices of course....as are the sheep.

 

[Root of Jesse]

Don't be dishonest. You are asking me whether I want a relationship with an entity I don't believe exists. You would need to establish that this entity is real and that I therefore have a real choice to make.

You can believe what you want, it doesn't make it necessarily true, does it? God showed Himself, people didn't like it, and killed his human manifestation. It's been written about for millenia, and you don't want to believe it's real.

 

[Root of Jesse]

Lack of effort? You don't know anything about me. I was a Christian.

Obviously one who didn't make an effort. There's those, too.

 

[civilwarbuff]

While I find this response to be laughable (on what other claims can we pull out "you'll find out when you die" canard? You'll know the truth behind UFOs after you die. The secrets behind 9/11 will be revealed after your final breath. Bigfoot will meet you in the afterlife.) it does beg the question:

If we are to be held accountable by this [hypothetical] god for our beliefs, would it not be morally bankrupt to do so if this same god actively evades detection? Belief is not a conscious choice; I cannot simply choose to believe something without a compelling reason.

Seek and you will find, knock and the door will be opened. It takes a little effort....God will not shove salvation down your throat. If you are not receptive, that is your choice.

 

[Davian]

By their choices of course....as are the sheep.

Do you think people - or "sheep", if you prefer - should be held accountable for things beyond their control?

 

[civilwarbuff]

Do you think people - or "sheep", if you prefer - should be held accountable for things beyond their control?

We are only held accountable for our choices.....but sheep have an advantage over the goats......

 

[Davian]

Seek and you will find, knock and the door will be opened.

Why would I seek the fictional?

It takes a little effort....

As does an exercise in self-deception.

God will not shove salvation down your throat.

By "not shove salvation down your throat", you mean, "will appear, but every objective means to date, as fictional".

If you are not receptive, that is your choice.

I cannot choose to be receptive or not, any more than I can consciously chose what I believe.

Or, by "receptive", do you mean "gullible"? No, I cannot choose to be gullible.

 

[Davian]

We are only held accountable for our choices.....but sheep have an advantage over the goats......

I asked, do you think people should be held accountable for things beyond their control?

 

[civilwarbuff]

Why would I seek the fictional?

As does an exercise in self-deception.

By "not shove salvation down your throat", you mean, "will appear, but every objective means to date, as fictional".

I cannot choose to be receptive or not, any more than I can consciously chose what I believe.

Or, by "receptive", do you mean "gullible"? No, I cannot choose to be gullible.

You can chose anything you want.....

 

[civilwarbuff]

I asked, do you think people should be held accountable for things beyond their control?

You might want to read it again.....the answer is right there.....