Oneness Pentecostalism is not Biblical.

[redleghunter]

YHWH does not have a purpose in your belief?

See above.

 

[StephenDiscipleofYHWH]

Actually that’s the issue of your argument. The Trinity has One True God three Divine Persons. Persons have purpose.

One God that has different administrations performing a different function fits fine with that, as the administrations still perform the will of YHWH/God. YHWH's reason for being is shown in these Father son Holy spirit, but each are still YHWH.

 

[redleghunter]

Yes each administration was present. But they were all still one.

You just used “administration” as if they were persons.

 

[redleghunter]

Their purpose/Administration is different but they are still all one YHWH.

One nature?

 

[StephenDiscipleofYHWH]

You just used “administration” as if they were persons.

Persons implies that they are three distinct people but Godliness is one Father son Holy spirit as YHWH, they are not separate but one God performing three operations at the same time.

 

[redleghunter]

Persons implies that they are three distinct people but Godliness is one Father son Holy spirit as YHWH, they are not separate but one God performing three operations at the same time.

Person is defined simply as the subject of existence and life—hypostasis in the traditional church language.

Good night more tomorrow.

 

[StephenDiscipleofYHWH]

One nature?

One God, one divine nature(holy and incorruptible). I don't know in one sense you believe the divine nature is or how you would define it, but my belief/definition is one God holy and incorruptible.

 

[StephenDiscipleofYHWH]

Person is defined simply as the subject of existence and life—hypostasis in the traditional church language.

Good night more tomorrow.

So it would be one person since it is one existence/life, in one God.

Goodnight brother

 

[Small Fish]

It arose out of a Pentecostal movement that taught that there was no Father or Holy Spirit, but God was exclusively Jesus Christ. It started by being called "The Jesus Only" movement and their catch cry was "Jesus is Lord! Jesus is Lord!" which they would chant in a loud voice when anyone tried to reason with them.

The well-known healing evangelist, William Branham as influenced by the movement, but was not partcularly affected by it while he stayed within his healing evangelistic calling. But when he tried to be a Bible teacher, which God had not called him to, then he started teaching anti-trinitarian doctrine. So his followers were called "Branhamites". These people demanded that all those who were baptised in the Name of the Father, Son, Holy Spirit, needed to be rebaptised in the Name of Jesus in order to be truly saved. Since the 1960s, after his death, the "Jesus Only" branch of the Pentecostal church, evolved into what we now know as the "Oneness Pentecostals".

There are many in that movement whose hearts are right and sound, even though their heads are wonky in terms of the Trinity. I think we need to give these people the benefit of the doubt, and allow the Lord when it comes to His day of Judgment, to separate the sheep from the goats.

That's me! Branhamite! And proud to be one. If you have any questions, feel free to ask

 

[DamianWarS]

Although the word "Trinity" is not found within the Scriptures, the word "Godhead" is used instead (Acts of the Apostles 17:29) (Romans 1:20) (Colossians 2:9).

Although I don't defend unitarianism the word translated as "Godhead" does not implicate a plural natured God. The word is "theios" and it is the adjective form of the word for God (theos) a more literal translation would be "god-like" or even "the god thing" or better yet "divine" and more abstractly in the case of a substantive "divinity"

edit: Godhead looked at from Acts 17:29

 

[Small Fish]

Uh, no. How can a person blaspheme the Holy Ghost and be unforgiven and yet they cannot do the same with the Son of Man? It's because they are distinct persons within the Trinity or Godhead.

Because when Jesus was still walking as the Son of Man the sacrifice was not made yet but after that..

Hebrews 10:26
For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

The Holy Ghost was only given us after the crucifixion and resurrection.

 

[Small Fish]

In Genesis it says let US make man in OUR image and OUR likeness. Why on Earth is God referring to Himself in the plural form? It doesn't make sense with your belief

I will be honest here and I don't claim I know for sure but I'm also convinced at the same time that it is not there in support of the trinity doctrine. So I don't think it says what you think it says.

My one thought I have on this is In Job 38 starting from verse 4.

Job 38
4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

In God's mind we already existed. Even though not manifested yet.

William Branham also touched on this verse (Genesis 1) but I did not really understand what was said when I read it. (It was long ago)

But I believe it was inline with above said Scripture. I think taking a look at it again after so many years might not be such a bad idea.

To explain it another way. When working, I found myself trying various ways to solve an issue and I have found myself thinking out loud saying this in solving problems;

"let us try it in this way".

I said it while I was alone! So, maybe I'm just crazy but then I don't think I'm the only one. Or maybe, I spoke for the company I represent.

Why would Jesus need to pray to God the Father and ask Him to let this cup pass from Him? Why would He ask that towards God the Father if God the Father was not distinct and different in some way from the Son? Why would He need to make a request with Himself? It makes NO sense.

I think this one is easier to answer. Because God is not man. God is Logos (Spirit). God only took on the form or image of man in order to sacrifice the human nature of the flesh in order to bring us back to the nature of God by filling us with His Spirit.(the Holy Spirit) This is for those who can recognize what has been done. You need to identify with your sacrifice.

God acted as man giving us an example and at the same time hiding from the carnal mind.

In my opinion the trinity is trying to understand the Godhead with the carnal intellectual mind instead of through revelation given by the Father.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

That's me! Branhamite! And proud to be one. If you have any questions, feel free to ask

The great thing about being saved by grace through faith is that we don't need to have all the cut and dried answers about the nature and character of God. If a person has received Jesus as their Saviour and has become a new creation, their life is hid with Christ in God. This puts them out of range of anyone who seeks to judge them. Paul said that he did not allow any man to judge him. He did not even judge himself, but left the judgment to Christ. Put ten Christians into a room and you will get ten different theologies, but the one thing that they will agree on is that Jesus rose from the dead and gave them new life!

 

[discipler7]

You assume I have not spoken to them personally. You are wrong. I have. They believe that God the Father just puts on a mask or that He switches modes. They do not believe in the distinctiveness of God in that He is three separate persons. I have argued with them face to face about this at work. To deny the distinct persons of the Trinity is to deny who God actually is. The Son does not really exist as the Son described in the Bible to them. They believe that the Son is just a name God the Father takes on and the Son is not really separate and distinct from the Father in any way.

In any event, they are in my prayers.

You may be truly mistaken. God is one, not three.
....... Has fallen Man seen God.? Has fallen Man seen Jesus Christ.? Will fallen Man see God.? Will fallen Man see Christ again.?

DEUTERONOMY.6:4 = 4 “Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one!"

JOHN.5:37 & 1:18 = 5:37 And the Father Himself, who sent Me, has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time, nor seen His form. & 1:18 No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him.


ISAIAH.9:6 = 6 For unto us a Child is born,
Unto us a Son is given;
And the government will be upon His shoulder.
And His name will be called
Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

1TIMOTHY.3:16 = 16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness:

God was manifested in the flesh,
Justified in the Spirit,
Seen by angels,
Preached among the Gentiles,
Believed on in the world,
Received up in glory.

JOHN.14:7-11 = The Father Revealed
7 “If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; and from now on you know Him and have seen Him.”

8 Philip said to Him, “Lord, show us the Father, and it is sufficient for us.”

9 Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works. 11 Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father in Me, or else believe Me for the sake of the works themselves.

JOHN.8:58/EXODUS.3:14 =
8:58 Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.” /
3:14 And God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM.” And He said, “Thus you shall say to the children of Israel, ‘I AM has sent me to you.’ ”

 

[GodsGrace101]

The Oneness Pentecostals came out of the Azusa Stret revival when the Assembly of God split with the COGIC churches down racial lines. In 1915 the met at Hot Springs Arkansas and encountered a problem, a group was claiming Jesus was the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Its a nontrinitarian heresy known as Sabellianism. They are known as Oneness Pentecostals, they also teach you must speak in tongues in order to be saved.

In fact, I know of an Assembly of God church in Milan that had a schism because some believed Jesus is not God. This just happened about two years ago. ( I live far from there but have visited this Assembly of God church--it's very "alive" with the Spirit of God).

It's not easy to understand the Trinity. I've stopped trying.
But Jesus is Jesus, the Son and the Word.
Father is Father.
Holy Spirit is Holy Spirit.

All three are in ONE God,
All three always existed,
All three are always present.
Each one is different but the same.

That's the best way I could understand it.

 

[GodsGrace101]

They believe Jesus is 'a god', it's a heresy known as Arianism.

OK. I do know a little about arianism. It seems to have always been around. This is why we have the Nicene Creed to squelch the arian belief. But that also created a problem with the word "begotten" which is very misunderstood.

Begotten doesn't mean "got" or "became" or was "born".
It just means unique. The Son is unique.

 

[GodsGrace101]

It arose out of a Pentecostal movement that taught that there was no Father or Holy Spirit, but God was exclusively Jesus Christ. It started by being called "The Jesus Only" movement and their catch cry was "Jesus is Lord! Jesus is Lord!" which they would chant in a loud voice when anyone tried to reason with them.

The well-known healing evangelist, William Branham as influenced by the movement, but was not partcularly affected by it while he stayed within his healing evangelistic calling. But when he tried to be a Bible teacher, which God had not called him to, then he started teaching anti-trinitarian doctrine. So his followers were called "Branhamites". These people demanded that all those who were baptised in the Name of the Father, Son, Holy Spirit, needed to be rebaptised in the Name of Jesus in order to be truly saved. Since the 1960s, after his death, the "Jesus Only" branch of the Pentecostal church, evolved into what we now know as the "Oneness Pentecostals".

There are many in that movement whose hearts are right and sound, even though their heads are wonky in terms of the Trinity. I think we need to give these people the benefit of the doubt, and allow the Lord when it comes to His day of Judgment, to separate the sheep from the goats.

Amen. I agree with your last paragraph.
I don't believe our doctrine saves us or we'd all be lost.

When we read in the N.T. to be baptized in the name of Jesus, it just mean NOT in the name of John.
But Jesus Himself gave the instruction to be baptized in all three names...so we have to go by that.

Thanks.

 

[mark kennedy]

In fact, I know of an Assembly of God church in Milan that had a schism because some believed Jesus is not God. This just happened about two years ago. ( I live far from there but have visited this Assembly of God church--it's very "alive" with the Spirit of God).

It's not easy to understand the Trinity. I've stopped trying.
But Jesus is Jesus, the Son and the Word.
Father is Father.
Holy Spirit is Holy Spirit.

All three are in ONE God,
All three always existed,
All three are always present.
Each one is different but the same.

That's the best way I could understand it.

That sounds like the Trinity to me. I struggled with on incarnation for a while, Jesus being God really threw me. I eventually got it but I can understand someone having a hard time wrapping their mind around it. There isbabway of sorting it out though.

 

[GodsGrace101]

United Pentecostal Church (UPCI)
"The essential difference between Modalism and the Biblical trinity, is that in Modalism, the three members of the Godhood never exist at the same time and in Trinity, they always co-exist at the same time."

View attachment 237910




http://www.bible.ca/trinity/trinity-modalism.htm


Also:

Matthew 3
13 Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him. 14 But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me? 15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him. 16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: 17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

Yes. I understand the image.
All three are always present. In the image they are not.

Also, if modulism was right, it means God could still reveal Himself right now as someone else. But revelation has ceased.

This sounds like what some believe.. that God could be in anything; like the American Indian for example. It could get to silly ideas...

 

[GodsGrace101]

That sounds like the Trinity to me. I struggled with on incarnation for a while, Jesus being God really threw me. I eventually got it but I can understand someone having a hard time wrapping their mind around it. There isbabway of sorting it out though.

Yes. That is the Trinity.
The incarnation is easy! God revealed Himself to us as a man.
The WORD, which is the thought of God, became flesh.
The breath of God is the Holy Spirit....this is how it could be understood since all were with and in God from the very beginning. No one was added to God, they always existed.

God had tried to explain Himself to us from the beginning with the Prophets, Kings (which He didn't even want) Moses, etc. and then finally, He sent His only Son as was promised in Genesis 3:17. God had to become one of us so He could explain to us in our own language. There are analogies to this I used to use...the bird flying around in the house and hitting into windows; the ants falling off a cliff. In each case a human had to become either a bird of an ant to warn them of the danger. This is what God did for us.

Also, if Jesus is NOT God, we're worshipping a man!
But Thomas said: My Lord and My God.
Thomas certainly knew!