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Featured Oneness Pentecostalism is not Biblical.

Discussion in 'Debate Other Religions & Faiths' started by Bible Highlighter, Aug 14, 2018.

  1. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    The Trinity:

    The Bible teaches that there is one God (Deuteronomy 6:4) (1 Timothy 2:5) (Isaiah 45:5).

    Yet, the Bible also teaches that there are distinctions within the Godhead or that there is a plural nature to God.

    Here are a couple of quick points:

    #1. The word Elohim (אֱלֹהִ֔ים) is both a singular and a plural noun.
    #2. God refers to Himself in plural form (Genesis 1:26) (Genesis 3:22) (Genesis 11:7) (Isaiah 6:8).
    #3. Plurality of God in New Testament (Matthew 28:19) (2 Corinthians 13:14) (John 14:16-20).
    #4. Introductions to both the Son & Holy Spirit (Daniel 7:9,10,13,14) (John 14:16)
    #5. Different persons of Godhead appear at one time (Luke 3:21-22)
    #6. Distinctions of Wills (Luke 22:42).
    #7. Conversations Between the Godhead (Psalm 2:1-12) (Psalm 45:6-7) (Psalm 110:1) (Matthew 11:27) (John 17:24).


    The Trinity is told to us in one verse.

    “For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.” (1 John 5:7).

    Romans 1:20 says,
    "For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:"

    Meaning, even nature itself declares the Godhead (or the Trinity).

    Atoms = Nucleus, Protons, Electrons.
    Water Molecules = Hydrogen Atom, Hydrogen Atom, Oxygen Atom.
    Man Made in God's Image = Physical Body, Spirit Body, Soul.

    Although the word "Trinity" is not found within the Scriptures, the word "Godhead" is used instead (Acts of the Apostles 17:29) (Romans 1:20) (Colossians 2:9).
     
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  2. Saucy

    Saucy Fear is faith in the enemy. Supporter

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    Don't forget the opening of John.

    "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

    There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe. He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

    1He came unto his own, and his own received him not. But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me." John 1:1-15

    This is a striking verse that literally says the Word (Jesus) was both with God and is God. He was there in the beginning with God, and all things were made through Him, so He was part of the collective creating power.

    Another instance is when Jesus was baptised and you had Jesus in the water, the Spirit descending downward, and the voice of the Father on high saying, "This is my Son, whom I'm well pleased."
     
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  3. GodsGrace101

    GodsGrace101 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Could you please explain what Oneness is?
    Thanks.
     
  4. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    Essentially, the Oneness belief denies the Trinity as taught in Scripture.

    Check out this article here:
    https://www.gotquestions.org/oneness-Jesus-only.html
    (Please take note that I do not agree with everything Gotquestions website writes; I merely agree with this particular article).
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2018
  5. GodsGrace101

    GodsGrace101 Well-Known Member Supporter

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  6. Dan the deacon

    Dan the deacon Well-Known Member

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    Until you discuss this with a oneness believer you can't say that on truth. Most I have spoken to believe on the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. But the explain them as one person rather than a trinity. To them, Jesus is the Father, The Son and the Holy Spirit. It is dead wrong but more a perception than disbelief.
     
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  7. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    I am aware that they deny the Trinity. I have ran into a few of them at my old work station a few years back. I believe they were United Pentecostals. They believe baptism is for salvation (When the Bible teaches that baptism is not for salvation, See - 1 Peter 3:21). One of them also told me that it does no good to preach to anyone who is about to die in a hospital because they need works in order to be saved. While I believe works play an important part of our salvation for those who are able to live out our faith, I believe a person can be saved before they die (Because we see it with the thief on the cross). This shows that we are ultimately saved by God's grace and not works.
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2018
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  8. Dan the deacon

    Dan the deacon Well-Known Member

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    Good link jason0047
     
  9. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    You assume I have not spoken to them personally. You are wrong. I have. They believe that God the Father just puts on a mask or that He switches modes. They do not believe in the distinctiveness of God in that He is three separate persons. I have argued with them face to face about this at work. To deny the distinct persons of the Trinity is to deny who God actually is. The Son does not really exist as the Son described in the Bible to them. They believe that the Son is just a name God the Father takes on and the Son is not really separate and distinct from the Father in any way.

    In any event, they are in my prayers.
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2018
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  10. tampasteve

    tampasteve Lutheran Messianic Staff Member Supervisor Supporter

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    You are both right. Oneness can take different forms, some more Arian, some Modalism, even Adoptionism can be expressed like Oneness.
     
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  11. GodsGrace101

    GodsGrace101 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I read the link you posted.
    The Trinity is such a complicated concept. I don't think about it much anymore since I stopped teaching kids.
    Even when I was teaching it, I knew that every example was wrong. I liked the triangle the best.
    Oneness, at first reading, seems right too. God has revealed Himself in different ways. The problem, as I see it, is that if He revealed Himself as, let's say the Son,,,then where was Father and Holy Spirit at that time? The Bible has them appearing together at Jesus' baptism.
    Also Jesus told the Apostles to baptise in the name of the Father, the Son And the Holy Spirit.

    He didn't add the word OR.
     
  12. GodsGrace101

    GodsGrace101 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Do we Christian's agree on anything?
    Sometimes I find this disconcerting.
     
  13. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    Thank you for that Steve. I didn't know that.
     
  14. GodsGrace101

    GodsGrace101 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Why under Other Religions?
    This is confusing.
    The JW don't believe Jesus is God...it seems like they do??
     
  15. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    The problem in saying that all three persons are the same and that God just puts on a mode or mask is that the Father really did not send the Son to save us for our sins but it was the Father sending Himself. The problem is that Jesus says you can blaspheme the Holy Ghost and be forever condemned and yet He says you will be forgiven if you blaspheme (speak bad words) against the Son. Jesus said that He will send them another helper, which is the Holy Ghost. If all three persons were exactly alike, then these things cannot be what they are. Granted, I do not believe God is three separate gods, either. That would be Tritheism (Which is a belief held by Mormons).

    For Tritheism says that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost are three separate and distinct gods (and they are not one). It is essentially the belief in three gods. This is polytheism or the worship of more than one God. For the Bible makes it clear that the Lord our God is one God (Deuteronomy 6:4).

    The Trinity is stating that God is one and yet He is also three distinct persons, too. Ever see those paper chain cut outs of people before in your school? Imagine three persons in that chain. They are connected as one God and yet they are also three. While God is not exactly like Siamese twins, Siamese twins gives us an idea that two or more distinct people can exist in the form of one, as well. Granted, these are crude examples, but they should help give you the basic idea of the Trinity.
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2018
  16. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    JW's believe Jesus is Michael the archangel. However, this goes against many Scriptures which clearly declare Jesus to be God.

    As for why this was put under "Other religions" is because that is how CF classifies Oneness Pentecostalism discussions within this section. I would agree with that classification because I feel they do not worship the same God that I do.
     
  17. Dan the deacon

    Dan the deacon Well-Known Member

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    I am not assuming that about you. I was speaking to those who have not.
     
  18. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    Thanks for clarifying. May God bless you.
     
  19. tampasteve

    tampasteve Lutheran Messianic Staff Member Supervisor Supporter

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    From the CF Terms:
    "Non-Trinitarianism may only be discussed in the Outreach category forums."

    So, while it may be a type of Christianity in some eyes, to this forum the beliefs are restricted to these sections. There are some Oneness believers that participate in the Trinitarian/main Forums, but they must keep their Oneness beliefs to themselves, overall.
     
  20. Dan the deacon

    Dan the deacon Well-Known Member

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    Because their belief keeps them from believing the Creed. The Creed is what makes the most of us of one main belief.
     
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