Oneness Pentecostalism is not Biblical.

[Bible Highlighter]

...

 

[redleghunter]

You brought up the list, and I responded to that list. Again, you will find no Scripture stating Christ had a separate human soul and or human spirit (Which suggests a human nature) that was distinct or different from His divine soul or divine spirit as the Eternal Living Word. In fact, if Jesus did take on a human soul or human spirit than He could not be from everlasting as Micah says.

"But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, though you be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of you shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting." (Micah 5:2).

Jesus would be an entirely new creation or new life form if He took on a human soul or a human spirit. But Jesus always existed as the Living Word. He merely took on flesh. In fact, Jesus said that His body was a temple and that He would raise it up. Jesus did not say He would raise up some kind of human internal portion of Himself along with that temple.

Ok Jason start another thread.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Here are Some More Points in Refuting the Oneness Doctrine:

The Holy Spirit is said to be another Comforter:

“And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you forever;” (John 14:16).​

The Holy Spirit can be blasphemed whereby a person will never be forgiven, but this is not the case with the Son:

“And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.” (Matthew 12:32).

Important Note: Only God can be blasphemed.​

The Father Sent The Holy Spirit:
The Father will send the Holy Spirit, not Himself, to help believers:

For Jesus said.

But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you (John 14:26).​

There Is A Difference Between The Father And The Holy Spirit:
The Holy Spirit does the will of God the Father:

Paul wrote.

And He who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints in accordance with God's will (Romans 8:27).​

Source used for Holy Spirit being distinct from the Father:
https://www.blueletterbible.org/faq/don_stewart/don_stewart_325.cfm

 

[oldrunner]

What about Isa. 53:10, where the suffering of His soul is spoken about? And Hebrews 4:15, that says He was temped/tested in all points like we are, but without sin. Mat. 26:38, takes about how His soul was exceedingly sorrowful.

It seems self explanatory that in order to redeem us, He would of had to be real, 100% man. I mean when God said you needed a sacrifice in the OT, it was a real animal, not just "flesh", or a "form". This is the same thing you are arguing against about Jesus just taking three "modes", as God.

Jesus coming in the "flesh", means He was totally man. Just as He was totally God also. He was born- just like a everyone was, he grew, suffered, and died. The early Creeds confirmed this, as do the later.

The study of the soul is very tricky, I agree. But I believe we are body soul and spirit. (1st Thess. 5:23) Through our soul, it seems we experience the world around us, like it is connected to our bodies and has a "shape", if you will. (Rev. 6:9-11) As men we have a soul, and like I pointed out, to redeem mankind, Jesus would have to have a human soul too, or His offering would be tainted-He would not be truly a man. Did Jesus have a soul before the incarnation? I'm not 100% sure, most likely not, because He was only Spirit before.

The incarnation is a big deal. Early Creeds affirmed that He was a man- just like us. I'd be real careful here.

https://www.desiringgod.org/articles/how-can-jesus-be-god-and-man

 

[StephenDiscipleofYHWH]

The Trinity:

The Bible teaches that there is one God (Deuteronomy 6:4) (1 Timothy 2:5) (Isaiah 45:5).

Yet, the Bible also teaches that there are distinctions within the Godhead or that there is a plural nature to God.

Here are a couple of quick points:

#1. The word Elohim (אֱלֹהִ֔ים) is both a singular and a plural noun.
#2. God refers to Himself in plural form (Genesis 1:26) (Genesis 3:22) (Genesis 11:7) (Isaiah 6:8).
#3. Plurality of God in New Testament (Matthew 28:19) (2 Corinthians 13:14) (John 14:16-20).
#4. Introductions to both the Son & Holy Spirit (Daniel 7:9,10,13,14) (John 14:16)
#5. Different persons of Godhead appear at one time (Luke 3:21-22)
#6. Distinctions of Wills (Luke 22:42).
#7. Conversations Between the Godhead (Psalm 2:1-12) (Psalm 45:6-7) (Psalm 110:1) (Matthew 11:27) (John 17:24).


The Trinity is told to us in one verse.

“For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.” (1 John 5:7).

Romans 1:20 says,
"For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:"

Meaning, even nature itself declares the Godhead (or the Trinity).

Atoms = Nucleus, Protons, Electrons.
Water Molecules = Hydrogen Atom, Hydrogen Atom, Oxygen Atom.
Man Made in God's Image = Physical Body, Spirit Body, Soul.

Although the word "Trinity" is not found within the Scriptures, the word "Godhead" is used instead (Acts of the Apostles 17:29) (Romans 1:20) (Colossians 2:9).

I agree there are some problems with oneness Pentecostalism but at least they are closer to the truth than those who believe the false trinity doctrine.

The Lord God Yahweh is one Lord, not three.

Eph 4:4-6
4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

Deut 6:4
4 Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord:

Isa 44:24,6,8
24 Thus saith the Lord, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the Lord that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;
6 Thus saith the Lord the King of Israel, and his redeemer the Lord of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.
8 Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.

James 2:19
19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

1 Corinthians 8:6
6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

Yahshua is the Lord God.
The holy spirit of Y.H.W.H the one true God says, Yahshua the Christ is the Son of God. Luke 3:22, Matthew 3:16-17
Also the Apostle Peter called Christ Yahshua the Son of God in, Matt 16:16
Thomas called Christ Lord and God in, John 20:28
Yahshua called himself God in, John 8:58, John 10:29-30, 36-38, John 17:11, 21-22
Yahweh says Yahshua is his son and calls Yahshua God. Hebrews 1:2-8
Yahshua says that the father dwelleth in him, and that he and the Father are one. John 14:9-11

Yahshua is the Image and the fulness of the Godhead(Yahweh) bodily. Collosians 1:14-15, Collosians 2:8-9, Romans 8:29

Yahweh says a son will be born, and that sons name will be God with us, the Mighty God, and the everlasting Father.Matt 1:22-23, Isaiah 9:6-7, John 5:43

The Lord God Yahweh is the Father(Yahweh) The son(Yahshua) and the holy spirit. And he is one(The Father, Yahweh). 2 Corinthians 3:13-17, John 15:26, Phillipians 2:5-12, 1 Timothy 3:16, john 1:1,14; Gal 3:20

1 Timothy 2:3-5
3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

1 Corinthians 12:4-6
4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.
6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.

1 John 5:7-8
7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

1 Corinthians 8:6
6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

Eph 4:4-6
4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.


There are Dozens more passages that show Christ Yahshua, The Holy Spirit, and The Father YHWH are all YHWH.
______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
There is not a trinity, the Lord God is One not three. The son Yahshua is the Father YHWH as the son. The Holy spirit is the Spirit of the Father Yahweh as the Holy spirit. And the Father Yahweh is the Father Yahweh. All three exist at the same time and all three are the Father YHWH. There are different administrations that perform different operations but it is the same God Yahweh that worketh in all. Great is the Mystery of Godliness.

On earth water is the best example we have to try and explain the mystery of Godliness. Water can exist in three forms liquid solid and gas, but in all three forms it is still water. So to is the Lord God the father the son and holy spirit in all three forms he is still one God(YHWH) not three separate beings. This is in no way a perfect example and does not fully explain the mystery of Godliness, it is only the best example we have in nature.

The Trinity is a Satanic doctrine that comes not from the bible but from False teachings given at the council of Nicaea. The first Christians had the fullness of the Gospel delivered unto them by the Holy spirit and by the Apostles. The Trinity is not found any place in the bible, only the belief and fact that there is only One God. Even the devils believe there is only One God(James 2:19) and Tremble.

Declared all the counsel of God(Acts 20:26-28)
Be mindful of the words spoken by the prophets and the commandments of the Apostles and Christ(2 Peter 3:1-2, 15-18)
Keep the sound words given by Paul(1 Timohty 1:13-14)
Fully known the Doctrine, continue in things learned(2 Tim 3:10, 14-15)
Laws of God (Rom 13:2,9-10)
Stablish according to the Gospel and preaching of Christ(Romans 16:25-27)
Fully preached the Gospel of Christ(Romans 15:19,29)
Acknowledge things spoken as commandments of the Lord(1 Cor 14:37)
Gospel received by Revelation of Christ(Gal 1:6-12)
Christ the same today yesterday and tomorrow, so to is the word of God the same. (Hebrews 13:8-9)
Keep the Commandments given by Christ(John 14:21,23, Matt 28:20)
Holy word of God is of no private interpretation (2 Peter 1:20-21)

They did not believe in the Trinity since it wasn't even a thought until more than 60-90 years after Paul's death and even then it was only supported by sects of people that had strayed from the True Christian faith/Doctrine and was only a partial form of the trinity doctrine introduced by the Catholics. The Trinity was not supported by more than a minority of People(claiming to be Christians) until the Council of Nicaea when Constantine gave it his support in 325 Ad. Then in 384 ad it came to the Final form most know it as today. The trinity is not supported by Scripture, by the Apostles, or by the Words of Christ. It is a False doctrine.


May the Truth and light of the Lord God Yahshua the Christ Guide you.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I agree there are some problems with oneness Pentecostalism but at least they are closer to the truth than those who believe the false trinity doctrine.

The Lord God Yahweh is one Lord, not three.

Eph 4:4-6
4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

Deut 6:4
4 Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord:

Isa 44:24,6,8
24 Thus saith the Lord, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the Lord that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;
6 Thus saith the Lord the King of Israel, and his redeemer the Lord of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.
8 Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.

James 2:19
19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

1 Corinthians 8:6
6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

Yahshua is the Lord God.
The holy spirit of Y.H.W.H the one true God says, Yahshua the Christ is the Son of God. Luke 3:22, Matthew 3:16-17
Also the Apostle Peter called Christ Yahshua the Son of God in, Matt 16:16
Thomas called Christ Lord and God in, John 20:28
Yahshua called himself God in, John 8:58, John 10:29-30, 36-38, John 17:11, 21-22
Yahweh says Yahshua is his son and calls Yahshua God. Hebrews 1:2-8
Yahshua says that the father dwelleth in him, and that he and the Father are one. John 14:9-11

Yahshua is the Image and the fulness of the Godhead(Yahweh) bodily. Collosians 1:14-15, Collosians 2:8-9, Romans 8:29

Yahweh says a son will be born, and that sons name will be God with us, the Mighty God, and the everlasting Father.Matt 1:22-23, Isaiah 9:6-7, John 5:43

The Lord God Yahweh is the Father(Yahweh) The son(Yahshua) and the holy spirit. And he is one(The Father, Yahweh). 2 Corinthians 3:13-17, John 15:26, Phillipians 2:5-12, 1 Timothy 3:16, john 1:1,14; Gal 3:20

1 Timothy 2:3-5
3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

1 Corinthians 12:4-6
4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.
6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.

1 John 5:7-8
7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

1 Corinthians 8:6
6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

Eph 4:4-6
4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.


There are Dozens more passages that show Christ Yahshua, The Holy Spirit, and The Father YHWH are all YHWH.
______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
There is not a trinity, the Lord God is One not three. The son Yahshua is the Father YHWH as the son. The Holy spirit is the Spirit of the Father Yahweh as the Holy spirit. And the Father Yahweh is the Father Yahweh. All three exist at the same time and all three are the Father YHWH. There are different administrations that perform different operations but it is the same God Yahweh that worketh in all. Great is the Mystery of Godliness.

On earth water is the best example we have to try and explain the mystery of Godliness. Water can exist in three forms liquid solid and gas, but in all three forms it is still water. So to is the Lord God the father the son and holy spirit in all three forms he is still one God(YHWH) not three separate beings. This is in no way a perfect example and does not fully explain the mystery of Godliness, it is only the best example we have in nature.

The Trinity is a Satanic doctrine that comes not from the bible but from False teachings given at the council of Nicaea. The first Christians had the fullness of the Gospel delivered unto them by the Holy spirit and by the Apostles. The Trinity is not found any place in the bible, only the belief and fact that there is only One God. Even the devils believe there is only One God(James 2:19) and Tremble.

Declared all the counsel of God(Acts 20:26-28)
Be mindful of the words spoken by the prophets and the commandments of the Apostles and Christ(2 Peter 3:1-2, 15-18)
Keep the sound words given by Paul(1 Timohty 1:13-14)
Fully known the Doctrine, continue in things learned(2 Tim 3:10, 14-15)
Laws of God (Rom 13:2,9-10)
Stablish according to the Gospel and preaching of Christ(Romans 16:25-27)
Fully preached the Gospel of Christ(Romans 15:19,29)
Acknowledge things spoken as commandments of the Lord(1 Cor 14:37)
Gospel received by Revelation of Christ(Gal 1:6-12)
Christ the same today yesterday and tomorrow, so to is the word of God the same. (Hebrews 13:8-9)
Keep the Commandments given by Christ(John 14:21,23, Matt 28:20)
Holy word of God is of no private interpretation (2 Peter 1:20-21)

They did not believe in the Trinity since it wasn't even a thought until more than 60-90 years after Paul's death and even then it was only supported by sects of people that had strayed from the True Christian faith/Doctrine and was only a partial form of the trinity doctrine introduced by the Catholics. The Trinity was not supported by more than a minority of People(claiming to be Christians) until the Council of Nicaea when Constantine gave it his support in 325 Ad. Then in 384 ad it came to the Final form most know it as today. The trinity is not supported by Scripture, by the Apostles, or by the Words of Christ. It is a False doctrine.


May the Truth and light of the Lord God Yahshua the Christ Guide you.

Uh, no. How can a person blaspheme the Holy Ghost and be unforgiven and yet they cannot do the same with the Son of Man? It's because they are distinct persons within the Trinity or Godhead.

 

[StephenDiscipleofYHWH]

Uh, no. How can a person blaspheme the Holy Ghost and be unforgiven and yet they cannot do the same with the Son of Man? It's because they are distinct persons within the Trinity or Godhead.

No, it is a different administration that performs a different operation but is the same God(not a different/distinct person). Blaspheming the holy spirit is denying the truth and calling it a lie as it is the spirit of truth. The same penalty is given for denying that Christ is the way the truth and the light as well as the word of God.
Matt 10:32-33
32 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.
33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.

Mark 3:28-30
. 28Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme: 29But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation: 30Because they said, He hath an unclean spirit.

Calling the truth a lie until the time you die, and denying Christ who is the way the truth and word of God until the time you die cannot be forgiven.

 

[redleghunter]

Jesus would have to have a human soul too, or His offering would be tainted-He would not be truly a man. Did Jesus have a soul before the incarnation?

Yes to be the perfect substitute Jesus Christ must be truly human. If He lacks a human soul/spirit then that makes Him a demi god and we know that is wrong.

Edit add: Just as Christ must be truly God to make atonement.

 

[redleghunter]

There are Dozens more passages that show Christ Yahshua, The Holy Spirit, and The Father YHWH are all YHWH.

That’s the Trinity right there.

Or are you arguing for Tritheism or Modalism?

 

[redleghunter]

No, it is a different administration that performs a different operation but is the same God(not a different/distinct person).

Therefore Modalism?

 

[oldrunner]

Therefore Modalism?

Yep.

 

[StephenDiscipleofYHWH]

That’s the Trinity right there.

Or are you arguing for Tritheism or Modalism?

They are all one God(YHWH) at the same time not three distinct personas. There are different administrations that perform different operations but they all exist at one time as the same God/being without three different personas/identities.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

They are all one God(YHWH) at the same time not three distinct personas. There are different administrations that perform different operations but they all exist at one time as the same God/being without three different personas/identities.

Then who on Earth was Jesus talking to when He prayed?
What about at Jesus's baptism? All three persons of the Godhead or Trinity were present.
Sorry, but what you believe just doesn't make any sense in light of the facts of Scripture.

 

[StephenDiscipleofYHWH]

Then who on Earth was Jesus talking to when He prayed?
What about at Jesus's baptism? All three persons of the Godhead or Trinity were present.
Sorry, but what you believe just doesn't make any sense in light of the facts of Scripture.

1. YHWH as the son spoke to YHWH as the Father.
2. Yes each administration was present but each (YHWH as the son, YHWH as the Father, and YHWH as the Holy spirit) were all one God YHWH and not three distinct persona's.
3. It makes perfect sense and is agreement with scripture.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

1. YHWH as the son spoke to YHWH as the Father.
2. Yes each administration was present but each (YHWH as the son, YHWH as the Father, and YHWH as the Holy spirit) were all one God YHWH and not three distinct persona's.

In Genesis it says let US make man in OUR image and OUR likeness. Why on Earth is God referring to Himself in the plural form? It doesn't make sense with your belief.

Also, your explanation does not work if what you say is true. Why would Jesus need to pray to God the Father and ask Him to let this cup pass from Him? Why would He ask that towards God the Father if God the Father was not distinct and different in some way from the Son? Why would He need to make a request with Himself? It makes NO sense.

 

[StephenDiscipleofYHWH]

In Genesis it says let US make man in OUR image and OUR likeness. Why on Earth is God referring to Himself in the plural form? It doesn't make sense with your belief.

Also, your explanation does not work if what you say is true. Why would Jesus need to pray to God the Father and ask Him to let this cup pass from Him? Why would He ask that towards God the Father if God the Father was not distinct and different in some way from the Son?

He was speaking to the angels, he created them as living souls just as we do(spiritual creatures), that live within these tents of flesh today.

It was a different administration, Christ as the son(Who is YHWH) made himself subject unto YHWH the father as such he is subject unto the will of the Father YHWH. They are the same God YHWH just in a different administration but not a different persona/identity.

 

[redleghunter]

They are all one God(YHWH) at the same time not three distinct personas. There are different administrations that perform different operations but they all exist at one time as the same God/being without three different personas/identities.

Is the risen Christ Jesus Christ Who is now seated at the Right Hand of the Father glorified a person? If not when did He stop being a person?

To ensure we speak of the same thing when we say person, Person is defined here simply as the subject of existence and life—hypostasis in the traditional church language.

The Father has existence and life
The Son has existence and life
The Holy Spirit has existence and life

There is One God.

Therefore the only logical conclusion is Trinitarian. Why? Because there is only One God, yet there are three distinct Persons (existence and life).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

He was speaking to the angels, he created them as living souls just as we do(spiritual creatures), that live within these tents of flesh today.

The audience would not change how God refers to Himself. Again, why did He refer to Himself in the plural form several times in Genesis?
There is no explanation for this with your belief.

It was a different administration, Christ as the son(Who is YHWH) made himself subject unto YHWH the father as such he is subject unto the will of the Father YHWH. They are the same God YHWH just in a different administration but not a different persona/identity.

Again, it makes NO sense for Him to make requests with Himself!!!

That would be like asking yourself permission to do something. It would make no sense. Sorry, you are just not getting it, my friend.

 

[redleghunter]

He was speaking to the angels, he created them as living souls just as we do(spiritual creatures), that live within these tents of flesh today.

It was a different administration, Christ as the son(Who is YHWH) made himself subject unto YHWH the father as such he is subject unto the will of the Father YHWH. They are the same God YHWH just in a different administration but not a different persona/identity.

Jesus was praying to Himself in John 17?

 

[StephenDiscipleofYHWH]

Jesus was praying to Himself in John 17?

He was praying to the Father(YHWH) who he subjected himself to since they are equal in all things. They are different administrations that perform different operations but they are the same God and same being.