One saved alwayse saved

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KleinerApfel

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I am not taking the grace of God lightly. I know that it is always only He who can keep me, since I am unable to keep myself safe. As Jude says:

24To him who is able to keep you from falling and to present you before his glorious presence without fault and with great joy-- 25to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen. :clap:
 
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TasManOfGod

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Another way of looking at OSAS is to consider what is sealed -
Eph 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

So it is our spirit (where the Holy Spirit ministers) that is sealed. Not our soul (mind, will, emotions, intellect) and not our body (flesh)
So where does sin happen? Isn't it to the flesh or the mind.

What would sin to your spirit be? Well the only sin I can think of is that you denouce the same Christ in whom you were saved and therby blaspheming the Holy Spirit.

Think about it - dont just get all emotional

blessing
Tas
 
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Curt

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TasManOfGod said:
Another way of looking at OSAS is to consider what is sealed -
Eph 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

So it is our spirit (where the Holy Spirit ministers) that is sealed. Not our soul (mind, will, emotions, intellect) and not our body (flesh)
So where does sin happen? Isn't it to the flesh or the mind.

What would sin to your spirit be? Well the only sin I can think of is that you denouce the same Christ in whom you were saved and therby blaspheming the Holy Spirit.

Think about it - dont just get all emotional


blessing
Tas

I humbly apologize to you, I read just the opposite of what you posted.
 
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Curt

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To the supporters of OSAS.

Lets see how much changing and interpreting you do on This Scripture.

2 Pet 2:1-22
1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
3 And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.
4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
5 And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;
6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;
7 And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked:
8 (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds;)
9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished: [NOTICE OUT OF TEMPTATION.]
10 But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities. [NOTICE FREEWILL]
11 Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord.
12 But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;
13 And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you;
14 Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:
15 WHICH HAVE FORSAKEN THE RIGHT WAY, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness; [MY BIBLE SAYS GOD TALKED TO BALAAM]
16 But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb *** speaking with man's voice forbad the madness of the prophet.
17 These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever.
18 For when they speak great swelling WORDS OF VANITY, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, THOSE THAT WERE CLEAN ESCAPED from them who live in error.
19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.

20 FOR IF AFTER THEY HAVE ESCAPED the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.
(KJV)
 
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FreeinChrist

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Curt said:
To the supporters of OSAS.

Lets see how much changing and interpreting you do on This Scripture.
actually...it is interesting to see how that passage is used out of context by those who are OSnAS. :)
 
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Curt

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TasManOfGod said:

2 Tim 3:16-17
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
2 Pet 1:20
20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
2 Sam 14:14
14 For we must needs die, and are as water spilt on the ground, which cannot be gathered up again; neither doth God respect any person: yet doth he devise means, that his banished be not expelled from him.
Job 37:24
24 Men do therefore fear him: he respecteth not any that are wise of heart.

Well I guess my apology was premature. And I respecfully withdraw it.

I got the response I expected. That Scripture is addressing this issue directly, stated that one can be saved by The Lord Jesus Christ can be led away by teachers of false doctrine, and return to their old ways. Why don't you explain to us how it was used out of context. And I am referring to context of all Scipture in The Bible that deals with our eternal security, after our salvation process is completed by God who has predestined us to that end through His foreknowledge of every freewill choice we will ever make.
 
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Curt

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FreeinChrist said:
actually...it is interesting to see how that passage is used out of context by those who are OSnAS. :)

2 Tim 3:16-17
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
2 Pet 1:20
20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
2 Sam 14:14
14 For we must needs die, and are as water spilt on the ground, which cannot be gathered up again; neither doth God respect any person: yet doth he devise means, that his banished be not expelled from him.
Job 37:24
24 Men do therefore fear him: he respecteth not any that are wise of heart.



Your footnote should scare you in regards to your reaction to The Truth that was presented to you with that Scripture. The Bible tell us that it is the many who will go down that broad way that leads to the pit.
 
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joevberry3

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I can say this for certain--Im not gonna test God to see if I can lose salvation. If i feel im backsliding, I will be on my knees repenting! Dont wait til death to see if you were realy saved!
Its amazing that just about all will agree that if we dont produce good fruit, then we were probably never saved to begin with. But, how can someone tell a person that lives contrary to the word of God and produce no good fruit whatsoever, how can he/she tell that person yeah your still saved? I have never understood that.
Thanks,
Joe
 
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Symes

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The fact of the matter is that a person can be saved and then go back to what they believed before they were saved.

There are just too many verses in the Bible that support this to suggest that a person is OSAS.

Look in heaven itself.

The devil and his angels were cast out of heaven because of rebellion.

the OSAS group would have us believe that they were never saved, they never truly believed.

They were in heaven, of course they believed until the devil came along and changed their thinking.

If they could change up there in a perfect place why can't people change down here?

The answer is that they can change here and do change here.
 
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EdmundBlackadderTheThird

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Symes: Your example is wrong. The demons and Satan still believe, they know the truth beyond any shadow of doubt. It is not they do not believe, their situation is completely different than our ever could be. You cannot apply OSAS to Satan and the fallen angels, it doesn't work that way, angels have never needed Christ or grace to come into the presence of God. While I am not saying that I believe OSAS, I think you used a really bad analogy in an attmept to disprove it.
 
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Symes

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Symes: Your example is wrong. The demons and Satan still believe, they know the truth beyond any shadow of doubt. It is not they do not believe, their situation is completely different than our ever could be. You cannot apply OSAS to Satan and the fallen angels, it doesn't work that way, angels have never needed Christ or grace to come into the presence of God. While I am not saying that I believe OSAS, I think you used a really bad analogy in an attmept to disprove it.
Angels are different, they sinned and were cast out of heaven for it.

Now using your logic, they should not have sinned because they believed in God. Once you believe they could not have lost it.

Believe me they lost it alright.

flesh99

Try and stop being against everything I say and look at what the Bible says about it before you reply.

 
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EdmundBlackadderTheThird

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I am not trying to be against everything you say Symes, I am not OSAS so there is something we agree on. I do think your example was bad. They have never had grace offered to them as we do. It is bad logic to apply Biblical doctrine to angles as the rules for them differ than they do for us and they do not have a choice whether to believe or not.
 
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Symes

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I am not trying to be against everything you say Symes, I am not OSAS so there is something we agree on. I do think your example was bad. They have never had grace offered to them as we do. It is bad logic to apply Biblical doctrine to angles as the rules for them differ than they do for us and they do not have a choice whether to believe or not.
flesh99

The angels had a choice, one third of them chose to follow the devil. That was a choice.
 
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Andre

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Some angels decided to rebell against God and were cast out of heaven, men have sinned against God, and was cast out of fellowship with God, angels don't have forgivness available to them thru the blood of Jesus, we can wash ourselves 100% clean with the blood of Jesus wich have bought our way back to God, just like the angel of death passed over the houses of those who had the blood on their door post, God will also "passover" the judgement from those who are covered with blood of Lamb.
 
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Symes

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But their choice is not whether or not to believe in God, we as humans do have that choice.


flesh99

Of course they had the chance to believe or not. They chose not to believe and were cast out of heaven.

It was not OSAS with them. They believed, they did not believe, they were cast out. They had their chance, they chose not to believe. They had reached the point of no return.
 
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CJF

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Symes said:
WRONG, a person may turn their back on Christ at any time. Try breaking any of the ten commandments willfully and see if a person will be saved? Willful sin takes away our salvation.
I agree.

God has given us a free will. It's our choice if we want to get saved or not. If we decide we don't want to live for Christ any longer, and turn our backs on Him, He is going to let us because of our free will. Now, the consequence of that is that the person will go to Hell. But, those who stay TRUE to Him will go to Heaven.

I mean, think about it...if you could ALWAYS be saved, then all we had to do is confess with out mouth that Jesus is Lord and blieve in our hearts that God raised him for the dead and we'd be saved. Yes, that's how it works. Romans tells us that. BUT, if we were ALWAYS saved, then we could turn around and sin our whole life and do whatever we wanted, and we'd still go to Heaven. THAT'S why the Bible tells us to obey the Ten Commandments.
 
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