One saved alwayse saved

[Andre]

Double post...

 

[Hagios]

If You have unforgiveness towards someone, and you die, you will be lost. Even if you are a pastor. God will say : "Why should I forgive you, you did not forgive your brother."

This is just one of many examples. I have seen christians, that have backslided all the way into drug addiction. I am one of them. Would I have been saved if I died? NO

So, once saved not always saved. We are saved by grace, not by a one minute desition you made 10 years ago to follow Christ. Believe you me, God saves the same person over and over again if he keeps on sinning.

 

[Symes]

If You have unforgiveness towards someone, and you die, you will be lost. Even if you are a pastor. God will say : "Why should I forgive you, you did not forgive your brother."

This is just one of many examples. I have seen christians, that have backslided all the way into drug addiction. I am one of them. Would I have been saved if I died? NO

So, once saved not always saved. We are saved by grace, not by a one minute desition you made 10 years ago to follow Christ. Believe you me, God saves the same person over and over again if he keeps on sinning.[/QUOTE]

I think I know what you mean although I may say it in a different way. We just can't sin and think that God will save me anyway. That is presumption. What you said about your own situation is right. Your last comment is also right in so far as one is willing to repent.

 

[great1skingship]

I think that the main question here should be:
Who are the apostates referred to in the texts which talk about falling away? Are they Christians who walked away from the faith, or people who were pseudo-Christians and were never really saved to begin with? If we could truly pinpoint that, I think it would clear up a lot of issues with the OSAS teaching.

I personally am somewhere between Calvinism and Arminianism, because both tend to be a little extreme in their explanations.

 

[Symes]

Matthew 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.


Mark 13:13 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake °: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved

2 Timothy 2:10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

We can see that salvation comes to those who endure, those who do not give up easily.

Don't take me the wrong way here, Works does not save us and these texts are not saying that at all. But we have to put on the whole armor of Christ.

Every day it must be done. That is where endurance comes in. Doing it all the time. Surrendering our wills to Christ.

 

[Serapha]

WRONG, a person may turn their back on Christ at any time. Try breaking any of the ten commandments willfully and see if a person will be saved? Willful sin takes away our salvation.

Hi there!



Okay, I'm jumping in late, so I will be playing catch-up...


There is a difference between fellowship and relationship. There is not a single verse in the Word of God that tells me that I have to be "re-saved". I am saved once, and God doesn't do things half-way, but in a perfect way.

And please cite a verse that says "willful sin takes away our salvation".


~serapha~

 

[Serapha]

I agree with you. What church or denom are you in if you go? I am looking for a church now that doesn't hold any kind of calvinist view. It's not easy to get saved or stay saved in my opinion. It takes some thought and self-discipline and even then we might not make it. I'm better off for trying though than not, and I am comfortable with this fully this way. I'm not going to go where I know its fluffy gospel preaching.

Hi there!



You stated:

It's not easy to get saved

Really? And what is so difficult about believing or putting your faith in Jesus Christ?

or stay saved

Let me entertain you.


From what I am reading, you believe God is a yo-yo God....

saved today
lost tomorrow
saved today
lost tomorrow


My God is big enough to do it right the first, and He is the same yesterday, today and forever.

If you believe God had the grace to save you, why don't you believe that God has the grace to keep you saved? Isn't God's grace sufficient. That is what the Word of God says.

It takes some thought and self-discipline and even then we might not make it.

If it self-discipline, then you are not saved by grace, but by works... and I have news for you... there won't be a question, you won't make it (heaven)


If you placed your faith in a temporary and problematic saving grace of Christ, then your faith is misplaced, and you need to find the real Christ of Calvary, and you need to place your faith in Christ and forget about a dependence on "self-discipline". There's not a thing you can do to keep yourself saved when you are saved by grace/faith.

I'm better off for trying though than not, and I am comfortable with this fully this way.

You need to get out of that comfort zone and get back in the Word.

I'm not going to go where I know its fluffy gospel preaching.

That's a good thing... but wherever you are learning that it takes "self-discipline" to be saved... that is fluff.


Would you care to cite any passages which support your statements?



~serapha~

 

[Serapha]

Joe

They will be in deep mud, over their heads.

Read 2 Peter 3:17
"17Therefore, dear friends, since you already know this, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of lawless men and fall from your secure position."

Peter knew that there is no such thing as once saved always saved.

Hi there!

Peter knew that there is no such thing as once saved always saved.[/

2 Peter 2:9
The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished.


~serapha~

 

[Symes]

There is a difference between fellowship and relationship. There is not a single verse in the Word of God that tells me that I have to be "re-saved". I am saved once, and God doesn't do things half-way, but in a perfect way.

And please cite a verse that says "willful sin takes away our salvation".

Try reading Hebrews 10:26

 

[Serapha]

Hi there!





Then God is a liar and nothing in the Bible can be taken as truth?


settled.... thank you very much for exposing the Bible for what it is


a pack of lies...


~serapha~

 

[Serapha]

My friend, Symes,



I'm going to give you a harsh reality.


I was raised in Arminian theology. I was saved and lost my salvation so many time growing up that I couldn't even count the number of times that I was saved.

And I got saved again, and I got into a serious "works" program. I did everything you could imagine to "work" at keeping my salvation...

But you know what? I still felt like I was losing my salvation.

So, I cried out to God, telling God that I was at my maximum capacity, I couldn't do any more "works"... if I wasn't saved by my faith, then I was done trying.


And God said...."you are saved for eternity"

You know, I didn't have a clue then what the doctrine of eternal security was... and is was six years before I hear a sermon on eternal security, and I realized that the arminian theology where I had spend years was wrong... dead wrong.


And you know what... if I had died in that church, I would have split hell wide open. That's because I was never saved by the grace of God nor by my faith, but only on the condition that I do "works" to keep my salvation.


I'll say it again, I would have slit hell wide open if I had died.

When you are "saved" in a church that believes that you can loose your salvation as quick as you get it, then you are saved on a false doctrine, and I have news for you... you probably aren't saved at all.

God is the judge, but when you put your faith in a Christ that you know isn't doing a perfect work, it's the same as being in a cult because you have misplaced your faith in a Christ that isn't the Christ of Calvary


My friend, you can argue the Bible however you want to argue it. I know I'm saved for eternity, for ever to be in the presence of God, because God said so. If you want that same assurance, you can have it, but you have to have the faith of knowing that Christ did a perfect work not a temporary one that needs to be shored up with works to be effective.


Hebrews 10:26 addresses one sin...


That sin is to believe that grace and faith don't save you.


~serapha~

 

[Miss Shelby]

.

 

[Symes]

When you are "saved" in a church that believes that you can loose your salvation as quick as you get it, then you are saved on a false doctrine, and I have news for you... you probably aren't saved at all.

God is the judge, but when you put your faith in a Christ that you know isn't doing a perfect work, it's the same as being in a cult because you have misplaced your faith in a Christ that isn't the Christ of Calvary

And I have news for you, don't think for one moment the devil will not try and get you. The Bible does not teach OSAS.

 

[Miss Shelby]

Sephra sez:

When you are "saved" in a church that believes that you can loose your salvation as quick as you get it, then you are saved on a false doctrine, and I have news for you... you probably aren't saved at all.

And in the same breath:

God is the judge, but when you put your faith in a Christ that you know isn't doing a perfect work, it's the same as being in a cult because you have misplaced your faith in a Christ that isn't the Christ of Calvary

I don't think that God is doing the judging here, I think Sephra is based on his/her (faulty) interpretation of Holy Scripture.

Michelle

 

[Arc]

OSAS is not Biblical in the sense that you can say "I accepted Christ back then and I believe in OSAS so I've got nothing to worry about".

The problem with a statement like that is it is relying on your works. Saying "I was saved when I was 25" is pointing to something that seems like a boast in something you did.

The Bible is clear on this. We stand by our faith. If we have faith we stand eternally secure. If we give up our faith we are not saved.

John 15:1 "I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. 2Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit. 3You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. 4Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me.
5"I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing. 6If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.

You have to be saved to be in Christ (a branch in Me), if you are later cut off and burned then you are not saved.

Paul agrees:
Romans 11:16For if the firstfruit is holy, the lump is also holy; and if the root is holy, so are the branches. 17And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them became a partaker of the root and fatness of the olive tree, 18do not boast against the branches. But if you do boast, remember that you do not support the root, but the root supports you.
19You will say then, "Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in." 20Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear. 21For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either. 22Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off. 23And they also, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.

It seems being cut off not only can happen but will happen to anyone who does not continue in faith. Faith is belief. We are not saved apart from it. Although like everything else it is a gift, but it must be exercised. The warning of Hebrew 4 must be heeded:

Heb 4:1 Therefore, since a promise remains of entering His rest, let us fear lest any of you seem to have come short of it. 2For indeed the gospel was preached to us as well as to them; but the word which they heard did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in those who heard it. 3For we who have believed do enter that rest

I've heard over and over that this kind of thought makes it our "works" that save us and we must keep them up. This is a misunderstanding of faith. Faith is not a work:

Romans 4: 1 What then shall we say that Abraham our father has found according to the flesh? 2For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3For what does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness." 4Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt. 5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness,

Belief is not a work. We are not saved unless we believe. Belief is something we "do". It is a gift we exercise, or not in some cases. Those who endure to the end will be saved. Those who give up "lose thier salvation" or fall from Grace. You can't fall from something you were never in.

 

[Serapha]

Sephra sez:

And in the same breath:

I don't think that God is doing the judging here, I think Sephra is based on his/her (faulty) interpretation of Holy Scripture.

Michelle

Address issues, not people...


~serapha~

 

[Serapha]

And I have news for you, don't think for one moment the devil will not try and get you. The Bible does not teach OSAS.

Hi there!






Let's go back to the scriptures... post one verse at a time that identifies that being savedsneeds to be done again and again.

and while you are posting, tell me what steps in the plan of salvation need to be done again and again... and post scriptures that support your statement.

~thanks~


~serapha~

 

[Serapha]

OSAS is not Biblical in the sense that you can say "I accepted Christ back then and I believe in OSAS so I've got nothing to worry about".

The problem with a statement like that is it is relying on your works. Saying "I was saved when I was 25" is pointing to something that seems like a boast in something you did.

The Bible is clear on this. We stand by our faith. If we have faith we stand eternally secure. If we give up our faith we are not saved.

John 15:1 "I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. 2Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit. 3You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. 4Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me.
5"I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing. 6If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.

You have to be saved to be in Christ (a branch in Me), if you are later cut off and burned then you are not saved.

Paul agrees:
Romans 11:16For if the firstfruit is holy, the lump is also holy; and if the root is holy, so are the branches. 17And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them became a partaker of the root and fatness of the olive tree, 18do not boast against the branches. But if you do boast, remember that you do not support the root, but the root supports you.
19You will say then, "Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in." 20Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear. 21For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either. 22Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off. 23And they also, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.

It seems being cut off not only can happen but will happen to anyone who does not continue in faith. Faith is belief. We are not saved apart from it. Although like everything else it is a gift, but it must be exercised. The warning of Hebrew 4 must be heeded:

Heb 4:1 Therefore, since a promise remains of entering His rest, let us fear lest any of you seem to have come short of it. 2For indeed the gospel was preached to us as well as to them; but the word which they heard did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in those who heard it. 3For we who have believed do enter that rest

I've heard over and over that this kind of thought makes it our "works" that save us and we must keep them up. This is a misunderstanding of faith. Faith is not a work:

Romans 4: 1 What then shall we say that Abraham our father has found according to the flesh? 2For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3For what does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness." 4Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt. 5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness,

Belief is not a work. We are not saved unless we believe. Belief is something we "do". It is a gift we exercise, or not in some cases. Those who endure to the end will be saved. Those who give up "lose thier salvation" or fall from Grace. You can't fall from something you were never in.

Hi there!




I'm confused...



You are comparing apples to oranges....

The John passage is about believer/non-believers.... the Romans passage is about the Jews and the Gentiles in relation to Abraham's seed.



BTW... about the John passage...




[font=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]

[font=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]John Gill's Exposition of the Bible[/font]

[font=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica][font=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]John 15:2[/font] Every branch in me that beareth not fruit…
There are two sorts of branches in Christ the vine; the one sort are such who have only an historical faith in him, believe but for a time, and are removed; they are such who only profess to believe in him, as Simon Magus did; are in him by profession only; they submit to outward ordinances, become church members, and so are reckoned to be in Christ, being in a church state, as the churches of Judea and Thessalonica, and others, are said, in general, to he in Christ; though it is not to be thought that every individual person in these churches were truly and savingly in him. These branches are unfruitful ones; what fruit they seemed to have, withers away, and proves not to be genuine fruit; what fruit they bring forth is to themselves, and not to the glory of God, being none of the fruits of his Spirit and grace: and such branches the husbandman

[/font]

[/font][font=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]

[/font]

~serapha~

 

[Cinderella1]

but if you are saved, and you know the bible and Christ as truth. Would you really completely pull away from GOD and call it lies when you know its truth? Does anyone really follow a lie absolutely knowing its a lie? I think when you are saved you are saved, I assume you could become unsaved if you rejected GOD, but do you know of a case when someone who knew christ personally as their lord and savior and read and believed his word actually just stepped back and completely rejected GOD? If someone does that, they probably were not ever saved in the first place. Just because I am saying this doesnt mean I believe "I am saved so I can just sit back and sin all I want and im still going to heaven". No its that if you are truly saved you will want to do GOD's will and will want to press forward in your walk with him, not reject what you know to be truth.

 

[ephesians2:8-9]

To All but to Symes especially since he posted the comment:

1 Cor. 9:27
27No, I beat my body and make it my slave so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified for the prize.

Here Paul is saying that no matter what one has done if a person turns back they will miss out on the prize.


The "prize" does not refer to salvation but to the awards given to those already saved forever on the basis of grace. Salvation is not a prize. Prize denotes earning. Earning denotes work. Ephesians 2:8-9 makes it quite clear that we cannot "earn" salvation but rather instead is a Freely given gift that is unearned. In fact, to underscore that point - please understand that the actual, literal Greek work for "grace" means UNEARNED and UNDESERVED gift which is diametrically opposite of what the term "prize" denotes. Thus a "crown" can be awarded for whatever reasons God chooses, but it is not, repeat not something "earned" under a merits or brownie point system. Paul made this quite clear with an entire letter addressed to the Galatians about this very subject. The Galatians believed that they must "earn" or work for their salvation and that failure to do so could result in loss of salvation. Paul states in Galatians 1: 6-9 that those who follow a "works" based salvation (one in which one must 'earn' and or 'lose' salvation are following a different gospel and are damned in eternity to hell.) See Galatians 3:1-2 ... "Oh foolish Galatians, who has bewitched you ... v.2 = "This is the only thing I want to find out from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith?"

Faith is the Greek term meaning "to rely upon." You can do nothing to earn it. It comes by hearing the Word of God and understanding the Word of God."

Ephesians 2:8-9 underscore the concept in the most crystal clear manner ever in scripture. It is the proof text that no one can successfully repudiate who holds to a view that one can lose his salvation.

"For (this is a preposition that means hook what follows to what was said before this word)

by Grace ( - Greek word = Xaris (charis) = Undeserved, Unearned favor, freely given and given without merit)

"you are ... HAVING BEEN SAVED" ( Greek word = este ses-ohs-meh-noy= This is a verb using the Greek perfect passive participle tense in the nominative case, masculine in gender, 2nd person and plural. So what?

Answer: A perfect passive participle means that the action of the verb starts in a point of time past, it continues into the present moment and continues in perpetuity forever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever ad-in-finitum...it is never ending action. Note that word is "passive" meaning that the subject is being acted upon and not doing the action. Second person means "you." You are being acted upon. You is plural. The grammar connotes "process" through three tense levels of past, present and by the infinite future aspect indicates it is a condition that cannot be changed. It is an ironclad conditioning process from which there is no escape possible. This is the overall effect of a perfect participle, a process that cannot be changed nor altered.

Now what is the "ses-ohs-meh-noy mean" in action?

sesohmehnoy derives to the ultimate root word meaning "to save" or "to be saved." "To be kept safe and sound" & "to be rescued from destruction,"

In this case in this verse, the translation would go most literally go as follows (but keep in mind, this won't be the most accurate because to be accurate means I would never stop typing in the last word, which means from hereafter, I couldn't do anything else but keep typing... I couldn't stop to eat, drink, use the bathroom, sleep, or do anything else...but keep typing that last word -- forever and ever and ever... but I'm getting ahead of myself.

"For by an undeserved, unearned, unmerited favor freely offered (expecting nothing in return as a prid pro quo) You were saved at a point of time in the past which continued uninterrupted from that prior point of time when it started and into the present moment and it will continue into the future forever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ... ... ... (ad infinitum) -- but hey, that is not all of the verse -- there's more.

The next word in the verse in the Greek is the word "Dia" /dia which means "through the agency of" ... in other words ... there is a basis for the being saved at a point of time in the past that continued into the present moment and continues transcended into the future forever. Now that basis is??? .... the next word in Greek "Pistoo-oh". It means possessing the characteristic of "relying upon" or "to rest upon" i.e. "to believe" "to think" a thing to be true. The idea is similar to the mental attitude that accompanies the act of sitting down in a chair. There is a prior mental attitude of sitting down. The one moving to sit down conducts an evaluation of the capability of the chair or object he/she is to sit upon to determine whether or not it will be strong enough to support the person's weight. It is not merely an assumption, but rather a calculated rational assessment that concludes the object is worth "relying upon". In other words the object - the chair is capable of supporting the weight in such a manner that the sitter will not be injured or fall to the ground. So too is
the idea of the term found in this verse 8. So ... lets review ...

V 8. "For (reason- hook what went before me to what follows after me) By an undeserved, unearned, unmerited favor freely offered, you were saved at a point of time in the past that continues into the present moment and then transcends into the future forever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever ... ... ... ... ... through the agency of or on the basis of reliant belief (or a sitting down reliance) and it is not that of yourselves, it is the freely given gift of God."

Verse 9. "Not of works" = (erg-own) = human effort, human works, human merit.Human earnings, i.e. "brownie points." ... .... "lest any man should boast."

Now the Hebrews passage you cited 10:26 refers to those who reject the above verses of Ephesians 2:8-9 and who having been taught the above and taught the gospel message of Christ died for our sins in order that we might be saved by grace through faith and not of ouselves but rather a freely given gift of God given to us and not earned, not meritted otherwise we could boast. Those who reject the true gospel, keeps on sinning there is no basis for salvation left once the only basis for salvation is rejected.

now Symes you also state in another earlier post that:

"WRONG, a person may turn their back on Christ at any time. Try breaking any of the ten commandments willfully and see if a person will be saved? Willful sin takes away our salvation"

OH, okay, now we get where your coming from. The Galatians said the same thing. We're now getting to the heart of the matter here with you. You believe that salvation is based on Faith PLUS Works. I'm reminded of that favorite, funny line of Johnny Carson on his Tonight Show when he would say "Wrong, Oh Turtle Breathe." Just trying to lighten the mood a bit here with a smile ...

Yet, you misunderstand and mix "works" with the concept of salvation via the backdoor, not the front door.

Furthermore you misunderstand that salvation is an ongoing process. Salvation is a rescueing process whereby we are being continually washed by the shed blood of the Lord Jesus Christ continually in that perfect participle condition found in Ephesians 2:8-9. See Revelation 1: 5 where in He "washed us away from our sins in His blood." where in "washed" is another participle -- an active aorist participle which means a once and for all completed action ... i.e. a process.

What this issue boils down to is that Ephesians states that salvation is a process that starts at a point of time in the past and the effects/results are felt into the present moment and the results/effects continue on forever and ever, nonstop. It is an action with "abiding" or permanent everlasting results from which there can be NO escape. The washee cannot get out of the washing machine process and its effects. Even though we continue to sin (when we do not walk in the Spirit, but rather in the Flesh) the washing process is still ongoing because the process is a perfect participle action starting at a point in time past that continues in effect forever and for which the washee cannot jump out of the washing machine to which he was placed, in the spiritual sense that is.

Is the Holy Spirit, the Maytag Washing Machine Person? Well, I'm not sure if I would take the third person of the Trinity and categorize him in a "commercial" metaphoric sense, that might be stretching the metaphor a bit too far, but hopefully you get the understanding that the salvation process is ongoing, it is not reversible by you, me or anyone else. Of course, if you disagree then you have a major, major dilemma with Ephesians 2:8-9 because in the original Greek text the Greek grammar is crystal clear in regards to what salvation is and isn't.

Now furthermore, for those who think that you must act a certain and be a certain way in order to maintain that washing action (i.e. OSAS) and thus because its up to us to maintain it by our life's actions thus our salvation becomes in part Faith PLUS works.

Paul tells us in an entire epistle to the Galatians that such thinking indicates that those who think so are damned. The Galatians were thinking that way. Those who did so were never saved to begin with because they were never "relying" or having placed their reliance on the "unmerited, unearned favor/gift" basis. Their basis was they had to participate in the process so that the real net effect becomes Christ died for 90% of their sins? Or was it 80%. OR perhaps it was 100% of Past sins but only the past sins and not present or future sins? Well, as Paul told the Ephesians in 2:8-9 - Christ died for all of your past sins, your present sins and your future sins too.

For all of you who posted on this thread verses that seemingly contradict Ephesians 2:8-9 please understand that just as you misunderstood Ephesians 2:8-9 - so too have you misunderstood all the other passages, thanks in part to English language translations which are of great help in devotional means but are not reliable for doctrinal understanding. Only the original language texts are able to be reliable as no translation from one language to another can perfectly translate the fullest meaning of every word from one language to another.

The perfect particple passage is one classic example of how it is impossible for any English translation to do what I just presented and still keep the body of the text flowing in a reading sense.

I don't know if this helped turn any light bulbs on for anyone or not, but perhaps it may help one person better understand the situational concept of salvation.