Thoughts on terms used when considering salavtion

[KevinT]

I would like to consider some terms used when considering salvation. Because it seems to flavor how one considers the topic.

SIN

• A rebellious act. E.g. God told Adam not to eat the fruit, yet he did. That was disobedience, and thus a sin.
• Any wrong-doing, even apart from willful disobedience. E.g. Lev 15:27 “If one person sins unintentionally, he shall offer a female goat a year old for a sin offering."
• General ignorance. E.g. Ps 86:11 "Teach me your way, Lord, that I may rely on your faithfulness; give me an undivided heart, that I may fear your name". Here we have the psalmist asking instruction that he might become more aligned with God, more perfect. 1 John 5:17 "All wrongdoing is sin, and there is sin that does not lead to death." In this construct, everyone will always have more to learn from God and even after the 2nd coming of Christ, we will continually be learning, improving and becoming more like our Father.
  

SALVATION

• Forgiveness of an offense. Adam sinned and created problems for his offspring. God forgave Adam and "saved" him.
• Protection against consequences. After Adam's sin, God put forth immense effort to right the wrong. Adam acquiesced power and authority to Satan in the garden. Christ overcame Satan by obeying the Father to the point of death, regaining the authority Adam had lost. Christ "saved" us from Adam's actions.
• Personal improvement. This would be the process whereby God empowers us to stop shooting ourselves in the foot. He helps us put our foolishness behind us and stop doing bad things, thereby "saving" us.
  

What do you think of my flavors of interpretation above? Do you think they are all the same thing? Is there some additional nuance I missed? And how does swapping one interpretation of a word for another affect your understanding of salvation?

Best wishes,

KT

 

[Aaron112]

And how does swapping one interpretation of a word for another affect your understanding of salvation?

Scripture is no private interpretation, and is not allowed to private interpretation - as God's Word States unchangeably.

Explanation , remember, happens frequently and is not the same as interpretation nor the claim of interpretation. Too often what people think is interpretation is simply wrong , what they were/are/ taught.

 

[KevinT]

Scripture is no private interpretation, and is not allowed to private interpretation - as God's Word States unchangeably.

I don't follow you here. Are you saying that I am not to have a private interpretation? How is what I wrote a private interpretation?

Explanation , remember, happens frequently and is not the same as interpretation nor the claim of interpretation. Too often what people think is interpretation is simply wrong , what they were/are/ taught.

What did I say above that is wrong or contrary to other teaching?

 

[Aaron112]

After reading some other portions of other threads, I must say that we do not, and I cannot, agree to disagree.
If someone / anyone/ thinks or believes the Scripture is wrong then there is nothing in common with me.

 

[KevinT]

Can you explain what you mean? What part of scripture have I said is wrong and thus you can have nothing in common with me? And regardless, if you feel that way, why did you reply to this thread? I am trying to leave the arguments of other threads be and talk about something else for a change. I thought this would not be controversial.

 

[d taylor]

I would like to consider some terms used when considering salvation. Because it seems to flavor how one considers the topic.

SIN

• A rebellious act. E.g. God told Adam not to eat the fruit, yet he did. That was disobedience, and thus a sin.
• Any wrong-doing, even apart from willful disobedience. E.g. Lev 15:27 “If one person sins unintentionally, he shall offer a female goat a year old for a sin offering."
• General ignorance. E.g. Ps 86:11 "Teach me your way, Lord, that I may rely on your faithfulness; give me an undivided heart, that I may fear your name". Here we have the psalmist asking instruction that he might become more aligned with God, more perfect. 1 John 5:17 "All wrongdoing is sin, and there is sin that does not lead to death." In this construct, everyone will always have more to learn from God and even after the 2nd coming of Christ, we will continually be learning, improving and becoming more like our Father.

SALVATION

• Forgiveness of an offense. Adam sinned and created problems for his offspring. God forgave Adam and "saved" him.
• Protection against consequences. After Adam's sin, God put forth immense effort to right the wrong. Adam acquiesced power and authority to Satan in the garden. Christ overcame Satan by obeying the Father to the point of death, regaining the authority Adam had lost. Christ "saved" us from Adam's actions.
• Personal improvement. This would be the process whereby God empowers us to stop shooting ourselves in the foot. He helps us put our foolishness behind us and stop doing bad things, thereby "saving" us.

What do you think of my flavors of interpretation above? Do you think they are all the same thing? Is there some additional nuance I missed? And how does swapping one interpretation of a word for another affect your understanding of salvation?

Best wishes,

KT

-
​

I would began with the word salvation as that can be a confusing word. Because many times in The Bible the word salvation is not speaking about Eternal Life salvation. But a physical salvation for a believer by calling on the name of The Lord.

What God is offering people is, God's free gift of Eternal Life, this is The very Life of God. This is a free gift but this gift does come with one condition. Meaning God does not just force a person to take His free gift.

The one condition God has given to receive Eternal Life, is to believe in Jesus which means.

A person receives God's free gift of Eternal Life and becomes a permanent born again child of God at the very moment they believe in Jesus for Eternal Life. That is, when they believe Jesus is the resurrection and the life, The promised Messiah/ Son of God.

*Messiah and Son of God are saying the same name about Jesus, these are not two different names people need to believe in. So if a person believes Jesus is The Messiah, it is the same as believing Jesus is The Son of God.

The Messiah or Son of God is the name that has been given by God for people to believe in about Jesus to receive Eternal Life. Lord is not the name God requires people to believe in.

John 1:12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name:

John 2:23,24,25 Now when He was in Jerusalem at the Passover, during the feast, many believed in His name when they saw the signs which He did. But Jesus did not commit Himself to them, because He knew all men, and had no need that anyone should testify of man, for He knew what was in man.

John 3:14-18 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life.
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
“He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

John 3:36 He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”

John 5:24 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.

John 6:26-29 Jesus answered them and said, “Most assuredly, I say to you, you seek Me, not because you saw the signs, but because you ate of the loaves and were filled. Do not labor for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to everlasting life, which the Son of Man will give you, because God the Father has set His seal on Him.”
Then they said to Him, “What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?”
Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.”

John 6:35-40 And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst. But I said to you that you have seen Me and yet do not believe. All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out. For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

John 6:47 Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believe in Me has everlasting life.

John 11:25,26,27 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?”
She said to Him, “Yes, Lord, I believe that You are the Christ, the Son of God, who is to come into the world.”

John 20:31 but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name

 

[Clare73]

I would like to consider some terms used when considering salvation. Because it seems to flavor how one considers the topic.
SIN

• A rebellious act. E.g. God told Adam not to eat the fruit, yet he did. That was disobedience, and thus a sin.
• Any wrong-doing, even apart from willful disobedience. E.g. Lev 15:27 “If one person sins unintentionally, he shall offer a female goat a year old for a sin offering."
• General ignorance. E.g. Ps 86:11 "Teach me your way, Lord, that I may rely on your faithfulness; give me an undivided heart, that I may fear your name". Here we have the psalmist asking instruction that he might become more aligned with God, more perfect. 1 John 5:17 "All wrongdoing is sin, and there is sin that does not lead to death." In this construct, everyone will always have more to learn from God and even after the 2nd coming of Christ, we will continually be learning, improving and becoming more like our Father.

Literally, sin is "missing the mark," but it is used much more comprehensively in the NT,
where it is used of the governing principle or power (Ro 6:6) of fallen man.

SALVATION

• Forgiveness of an offense. Adam sinned and created problems for his offspring. God forgave Adam and "saved" him.
• Protection against consequences. After Adam's sin, God put forth immense effort to right the wrong. Adam acquiesced power and authority to Satan in the garden. Christ overcame Satan by obeying the Father to the point of death, regaining the authority Adam had lost. Christ "saved" us from Adam's actions.
• Personal improvement. This would be the process whereby God empowers us to stop shooting ourselves in the foot. He helps us put our foolishness behind us and stop doing bad things, thereby "saving" us.

Salvation is saved from the wrath of God (Ro 5:9) on sin at the final judgment, through faith in and trust on the atoning work (blood, Ro 3:25) and person of Jesus Christ for the remission of one's sin and right standing with God's justice; I.e., "not guilty" (justification). It is

past - through faith (Eph 2:8-9),
present - in sanctification and growth in holiness (Heb 12:14),
future - at the resurrection to our glorified, sinless bodies (Ro 13:11).

What do you think of my flavors of interpretation above?

They seem somewhat weaker than the Scriptural presentations.

 

[eleos1954]

I would like to consider some terms used when considering salvation. Because it seems to flavor how one considers the topic.

SIN

• A rebellious act. E.g. God told Adam not to eat the fruit, yet he did. That was disobedience, and thus a sin.
• Any wrong-doing, even apart from willful disobedience. E.g. Lev 15:27 “If one person sins unintentionally, he shall offer a female goat a year old for a sin offering."
• General ignorance. E.g. Ps 86:11 "Teach me your way, Lord, that I may rely on your faithfulness; give me an undivided heart, that I may fear your name". Here we have the psalmist asking instruction that he might become more aligned with God, more perfect. 1 John 5:17 "All wrongdoing is sin, and there is sin that does not lead to death." In this construct, everyone will always have more to learn from God and even after the 2nd coming of Christ, we will continually be learning, improving and becoming more like our Father.

SALVATION

• Forgiveness of an offense. Adam sinned and created problems for his offspring. God forgave Adam and "saved" him.
• Protection against consequences. After Adam's sin, God put forth immense effort to right the wrong. Adam acquiesced power and authority to Satan in the garden. Christ overcame Satan by obeying the Father to the point of death, regaining the authority Adam had lost. Christ "saved" us from Adam's actions.
• Personal improvement. This would be the process whereby God empowers us to stop shooting ourselves in the foot. He helps us put our foolishness behind us and stop doing bad things, thereby "saving" us.

What do you think of my flavors of interpretation above? Do you think they are all the same thing? Is there some additional nuance I missed? And how does swapping one interpretation of a word for another affect your understanding of salvation?

Best wishes,

KT

Salvation is a gift. We are continuously being sanctified (improved) by the Lord throughout our entire earthly life by way of the Holy Spirit to become more Christ like. His work in us ... not ours ... and He will finish His work.

Sin brings forth death ... for eternity .... by the grace of God we do not have to suffer the 2nd death.

Adam & Eve were given choice ... we are given choice (sin or not) ... we do mess up here and there .... but the Lord is quick to forgive and allows us to begin anew.

Although Adam & Eve did sin ... the real culprit is Satan and we know He is defeated and God will indeed deal with Him justly ... destroying him and all the wicked for eternity. We are in a spiritual battle every day until the Lord returns with the help of the Holy Spirit we can make better choices ... becoming more Christ like. Amen.

 

[KevinT]

I would began with the word salvation as that can be a confusing word. Because many times in The Bible the word salvation is not speaking about Eternal Life salvation. But a physical salvation for a believer by calling on the name of The Lord.​

What God is offering people is, God's free gift of Eternal Life, this is The very Life of God.

I agree that often salvation in the Bible is referring to physical salvation instead of Eternal Life salvation. But isn't there perhaps an overlap of these two concepts? The Israelites were "saved" from starvation by God's manna from heaven, and Christians today will be "saved" by God's salvation also.

I mentioned in my OP about 3 interpretations I could think of: Forgiveness of an offense, Protection against consequences, Personal improvement.

You have quoted many excellent passages where it is shown that salvation requires belief in Jesus and that salvation will mean eternal life for us. The passages that indicate HOW one is saved (via belief in Jesus) are true, but not directly to my original point. I was thinking about exactly WHAT it means to "be saved". So maybe I should increase my list to 4:

SALVATION

• Forgiveness of an offense.
• Protection against consequences.
• Personal improvement.
• Ticket into heaven / eternal life

 

[KevinT]

Literally, sin is "missing the mark," but it is used much more comprehensively in the NT,
where it is used of the governing principle or power (Ro 6:6) of fallen man.

I think this definition agrees with the 3 flavors of interpretation I mentioned.

Salvation is saved from the wrath of God (Ro 5:9) on sin at the final judgment

SALVATION

• Forgiveness of an offense. <------- avoidance of the wrath of God would go here.
• Protection against consequences. <--- and perhaps here.
• Personal improvement.

Thanks for your feeback.

 

[KevinT]

Salvation is a gift. We are continuously being sanctified (improved) by the Lord throughout our entire earthly life by way of the Holy Spirit to become more Christ like.

Salvation is a gift. I fully agree. But at Christmas time, a necktie, a chainsaw, and perfume can all be said to be "a gift." But calling it a gift doesn't clarify any underlying meaning. Jonah was thrown overboard, and the Lord saved him by having a large fish swallow him. Or, instead, He could have let him drown and at the resurrection said, "See, I saved you!" Both would be correct, but I hope you can see the difference I am getting at.

SALVATION

• Forgiveness of an offense.
• Protection against consequences.
• Personal improvement. <---- "We are continuously being sanctified (improved) by the Lord"

Although Adam & Eve did sin ... the real culprit is Satan and we know He is defeated and God will indeed deal with Him justly ... destroying him and all the wicked for eternity. We are in a spiritual battle every day until the Lord returns with the help of the Holy Spirit we can make better choices ... becoming more Christ like. Amen.

I fully agree, but this doesn't directly address my OP.

Thanks for your feedback.

 

[Clare73]

I think this definition agrees with the 3 flavors of interpretation I mentioned.

Guess I didn't see your comprehensive meaning. . .

SALVATION

• Forgiveness of an offense. <------- avoidance of the wrath of God would go here.
• Protection against consequences. <--- and perhaps here.
• Personal improvement.

Thanks for your feeback.

Not too sure why the need to avoid the specification presented in Scripture. . .

 

[d taylor]

I agree that often salvation in the Bible is referring to physical salvation instead of Eternal Life salvation. But isn't there perhaps an overlap of these two concepts? The Israelites were "saved" from starvation by God's manna from heaven, and Christians today will be "saved" by God's salvation also.

I mentioned in my OP about 3 interpretations I could think of: Forgiveness of an offense, Protection against consequences, Personal improvement.

You have quoted many excellent passages where it is shown that salvation requires belief in Jesus and that salvation will mean eternal life for us. The passages that indicate HOW one is saved (via belief in Jesus) are true, but not directly to my original point. I was thinking about exactly WHAT it means to "be saved". So maybe I should increase my list to 4:

SALVATION

• Forgiveness of an offense.
• Protection against consequences.
• Personal improvement.
• Ticket into heaven / eternal life

Well salvation offers Eternal Life as a free gift. But that is where that part ends after the belief in Jesus and a person becomes a born again Child of God.

All other areas related to the saving of a believer, requires the believer to put forth work and effort to discipline themselves in preparation for growth. The better their lives are patterned after Jesus, the more they will build up a future inheritance to be rewarded at the judgment seat of The Messiah.

Living more like Christ will kept the believer from discipline from God and also may provide protection from God against any attacks from the world. It just depends what is God's will for each believer.

Here is a very good article on the word salvation as used in the book of Romans

Salvation in Romans

 

[KevinT]

Not too sure why the need to avoid the specification presented in Scripture. . .

Jesus said that "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."

OK. That's all there is to it then, right? Just believe and there is nothing more for God's servants to do.

But then there is Christ's description of judgment at the final day.

Matt 25: 31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’
37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’
40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’
41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’
44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’
45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’
46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

"Wait a minute, I thought all I had to do was believe", I might say. "Yes," I imagine Christ saying, "but if you believed what I said, then why didn't you act on it?"

You asked, why I felt the need to "avoid the specification presented in Scripture. . ." I am thinking about these things because I am commonly presented with one side of salvation (justification), while other sides, also presented in scripture, are seemingly overlooked.

SALVATION

• Forgiveness of an offense (ticket into heaven) . <--- justification by faith
• Personal improvement / overcoming sin <--- sanctification by faith

If we overcome wrong-doing by praying for God to help us, and being enabled by the Holy Spirit to turn away from sin, isn't this sanctification also fully scriptural?

Best wishes,

Kevin

 

[KevinT]

...All other areas related to the saving of a believer, requires the believer to put forth work and effort to discipline themselves in preparation for growth. The better their lives are patterned after Jesus, the more they will build up a future inheritance to be rewarded at the judgment seat of The Messiah.

Living more like Christ will kept the believer from discipline from God and also may provide protection from God against any attacks from the world. It just depends what is God's will for each believer.

Here is a very good article on the word salvation as used in the book of Romans

Salvation in Romans

I wasn't sure what I was going to find at that link, but I found it to be very helpful. It addresses the issues I am trying to explore here, namely what is being meant by the term "salvation". And also, "saved from what?" The article seems to focus on Romans, but I think it is a good generalized point. From the article:

Understanding the Scriptures requires that we seek to understand what the author meant by the words he used. Christian lingo is dangerous because it makes people think they know what words like save and salvation mean. As a result, many do not even give a moment’s thought as to what save and salvation mean in Romans. And when you try to explain that Paul was actually talking about deliverance from God’s wrath, not salvation from hell, people may think you’re nuts. ​

The part about deliverance from God's wrath gives me a bit of pause, but when I consider that God made the universe and all it's physical laws, then warning people on the beach to flee from an incoming Tsunami is just like telling them to save themselves from God's actions (God's *wrath*). But this is a separate perspective not germane to this conversation and I don't want to get side-tracked.

So thanks for the excellent feedback and post. I feel heard.

Kevin

 

[Clare73]

Jesus said that "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."

OK. That's all there is to it then, right? Just believe and there is nothing more for God's servants to do.

Not in my Bible. . .

That is all one has to do to be saved from God's wrath on their sin at the final judgment.
That is not all that has to be done in the Christian life of those who are now saved from God's wrath.

And those Christian works after saving faith do not save, they are simply testimony to the faith which has already saved them and
the means of growing in the holiness of that salvation which is by faith alone.
No works means one's faith is false and, therefore, did not save.
It is not the works of faith which saves, it is the faith apart from its necessary works which saves (Eph 2:8-9).

 

[KevinT]

Not in my Bible. . .

That is all one has to do to be saved from God's wrath on their sin at the final judgment.
That is not all that has to be done in the Christian life of those who are now saved from God's wrath.

And those Christian works after saving faith do not save, they are simply testimony to the faith which has already saved them and
the means of growing in the holiness of that salvation which is by faith alone.
No works means one's faith is false and, therefore, did not save.
It is not the works of faith which saves, it is the faith apart from its necessary works which saves (Eph 2:8-9).

Clare,

I fully agree with what you have written. I think that is something we should celebrate, since we have seemed to approach these topics from different perspectives on prior posts!

To think about this further, I'm going to consider the woman caught in adultery and brought to Jesus. By Jewish law, both she and the strangely absent male partner were to be put to death. (As an aside: the law did NOT say that Jesus had any duty in this case. He did not discover them, and he was not family to any of them, and he was not a priest in a position of authority in the community.) But in this situation, Jesus forgave her and then bid her to go and put her sin behind her. I feel He "saved" in in several ways:

• He saved her from immediate physical harm from being stoned to death, by causing the crowd to flee as he wrote in the dust.
• He forgave her wrong doing by saying "neither do I condemn you."
• And He gave her reason to live a better life here in this world as He told her, "now go and sin no more."

One of the reasons I keep belaboring this point is that I very often see salvation considered as only it's "ticket into heaven" aspect. But salvation must have to do with the saving of our hearts. If I am a murderer, and Jesus forgives me, and I keep on murdering -- then that's going to be a problem. The cure for sin, in my mind, is God's enabling us to put our wrong-doing behind us -- not to just forgive it and let us continue down the same path.

So if I go back to this framework I am trying to work out in my head, and apply

SALVATION

• Forgiveness of an offense. <--- "neither do I condemn you"
• Protection against consequences. <--- Made her accusers flee
• Personal improvement <--- "no go and sin no more."

All of this was happening on Earth. Regarding how this story applies to avoiding the "wrath of God" at the time of the final judgement, I'm not sure. But it seems that if the woman, with a heart now full of love for how Jesus had saved her from stoning, lived the rest of her life following the teachings of Christ, then it seems she would be facing much less "wrath" from God.

Best wishes,

Kevin

 

[Clare73]

Clare,

I fully agree with what you have written. I think that is something we should celebrate, since we have seemed to approach these topics from different perspectives on prior posts!

Agreed!

But you will find me absolutely wed to the Biblical perspective alone.
I don't see the body of Christ improving on the word of God as it is written.
I see any such "improvement" as the folly of human reasoning.

To think about this further, I'm going to consider the woman caught in adultery and brought to Jesus. By Jewish law,
both she and the strangely absent male partner were to be put to death.

Correct. . .and her accusers failed to present her "co-conspirator," so there was no legal ground to condemn her.

(As an aside: the law did NOT say that Jesus had any duty in this case. He did not discover them, and he was not family to any of them, and he was not a priest in a position of authority in the community.) But in this situation, Jesus forgave her and then bid her to go and put her sin behind her. I feel He "saved" in in several ways:

He saved her from immediate physical harm from being stoned to death, by causing the crowd to flee as he wrote in the dust.
He forgave her wrong doing by saying "neither do I condemn you."
And He gave her reason to live a better life here in this world as He told her, "now go and sin no more."
One of the reasons I keep belaboring this point is that I very often see salvation considered as only it's "ticket into heaven" aspect.

Agreed. . .nevertheless, we must not apply human solutions (altering the word of God) to remedy incorrect understanding.
Rather, we correct the misunderstanding with sound teaching.

But salvation must have to do with the saving of our hearts. If I am a murderer, and Jesus forgives me, and I keep on murdering -- then that's going to be a problem. The cure for sin, in my mind, is God's enabling us to put our wrong-doing behind us -- not to just forgive it and let us continue down the same path.

Agreed. . .

True faith; i.e., saving faith, is repentant obedient faith.
Absent those qualities, it is not true nor saving faith, it is counterfeit faith (Mt 7:22-23).
Those who do not repent of (turn from) sin do not have saving faith, they have counterfeit faith.
And that is the answer to the dilemma. . .distinguishing between only true faith which saves, and counterfeit faith which does not save.

And it is not the repentance of saving faith which saves, it is the true faith alone, apart from its necessary repentance, which saves (Eph 2:8-9).
And that is because all the glory of salvation must go to God alone, which is why it is by faith alone, and not by anything we do, including faith's necessary repentance.

Let that soak in for a while.

So if I go back to this framework I am trying to work out in my head, and apply

SALVATION

• Forgiveness of an offense. <--- "neither do I condemn you"
• Protection against consequences. <--- Made her accusers flee
• Personal improvement <--- "no go and sin no more."

All of this was happening on Earth. Regarding how this story applies to avoiding the "wrath of God" at the time of the final judgement, I'm not sure.

One has no sin debt owing at the Judgment for anything because it all has been paid by Jesus, through faith in him.

But it seems that if the woman, with a heart now full of love for how Jesus had saved her from stoning, lived the rest of her life following the teachings of Christ, then it seems she would be facing much less "wrath" from God.

There is no wrath from God (payment for sin)--zip, nada, zilch--at the judgment for all those of saving faith in Jesus Christ.
For our Judge (Jn 5:22) is also our Savior.

 

[KevinT]

Agreed!

But you will find me absolutely wed to the Biblical perspective alone.
I don't see the body of Christ improving on the word of God as it is written.
I see any such "improvement" as the folly of human reasoning.

Correct. . .and her accusers failed to present her "co-conspirator," so there was no legal ground to condemn her.


Agreed. . .nevertheless, we must not apply human solutions (altering the word of God) to remedy incorrect understanding.
Rather, we correct the misunderstanding with sound teaching.

Agreed. . .

True faith; i.e., saving faith, is repentant obedient faith.
Absent those qualities, it is not true nor saving faith, it is counterfeit faith (Mt 7:22-23).
Those who do not repent of (turn from) sin do not have saving faith, they have counterfeit faith.
And that is the answer to the dilemma. . .distinguishing between only true faith which saves, and counterfeit faith which does not save.

And it is not the repentance of saving faith which saves, it is the true faith alone, apart from its necessary repentance, which saves (Eph 2:8-9).
And that is because all the glory of salvation must go to God alone, which is why it is by faith alone, and not by anything we do, including faith's necessary repentance.

Let that soak in for a while.

One has no sin debt owing at the Judgment for anything because it all has been paid by Jesus, through faith in him.

There is no wrath from God (payment for sin)--zip, nada, zilch--at the judgment for all those of saving faith in Jesus Christ.
For our Judge (Jn 5:22) is also our Savior.

I'm 90% in agreement with what you wrote. I think this is amazing, and I'm happy.

Best wishes,
Kevin