One saved always saved (Eternal Security)

[jerry kelso]

Correct.
When?
When did Adam know right from wrong?
As soon as he ate.
It was then, he discovered the shame of his nakedness and tried to cover himself.

Instinct, can before or after doing what is right or wrong.

Culture can teach, this is right, and this is wrong. And not all men have the same taught cultures.

Scripture teaches a principled doctrine of Jesus Christ.
Scripture also teaches, if you do this, you shall receive rewards, if you do not this, you will not receive rewards.

Point being, MEN like to label everything.
Scripture tells us HOW and in WHAT manner we can serve the Lord. He doesn't call it a moral law. But in fact we are told, not everyone is called to serve the Lord in the same manner.

Men like to criticize, what they can SEE.
The Lord knows what MEN can not SEE.

Scripture says you shall know men by their fruits. Also, Scriptures says ONLY the man and God know the mans heart.

So again, man can only know, a man, BY what he does.
One man can routinely be SEEN, in Church, hearing the Word, participating in Church activities, even Pastoring a Church.....
....Doing all the Principled teachings of Christ;
....and in secret, out of view, do the opposite.

Another man, can routinely be SEEN, never in Church, never hearing the Word, never participating in Church activities....
....Never SEEN doing the principled teachings of Christ...
....And in secret, out of view, continuously helping neighbors, strangers, reading the Word of God, praising God.

Which one according to MANS "moral code", is moral, and which is not?
Again, which is according to God, serving God according to how God purposed for that man?

God sees everything; men do not.
God rewards good behavior; men criticize everything.

I personally prefer, Gods WAY, over mans WAY.

God Bless,
SBC

God’s word is God’s way and the morals of Moses law was abolished 1 Corinthians 3:-3-15.
It was fulfilled in Christ under the Old Covenant Matthew 5:17.
It is contained in the NC with in the law of Love and Liberty Read James 2:8,11.
I have to go but I’ll be back to answer what the real issue most likely is with you. Jerry Kelso

 

[SBC]

God’s word is God’s way and the morals of Moses law was abolished 1 Corinthians 3:-3-15.
It was fulfilled in Christ under the Old Covenant Matthew 5:17.
It is contained in the NC with in the law of Love and Liberty Read James 2:8,11.
I have to go but I’ll be back to answer what the real issue most likely is with you. Jerry Kelso

I have no issue.

Was it not you arguing for MORAL LAW, and you now saying MORAL LAW was Moses' law and abolished?

The contradiction seems to be your issue, not mine.

God Bless,
SBC

 

[jerry kelso]

I have no issue.

Was it not you arguing for MORAL LAW, and you now saying MORAL LAW was Moses' law and abolished?

The contradiction seems to be your issue, not mine.

God Bless,
SBC

 

[jerry kelso]

I have no issue.

Was it not you arguing for MORAL LAW, and you now saying MORAL LAW was Moses' law and abolished?

The contradiction seems to be your issue, not mine.

God Bless,
SBC

sbc,

1. The issue I was talking about was why you don’t believe in moral law.

2. The Bible does say the Old Covenant was abolished 1 Corinthians 3:13-16; Hebrews 8:6-7.

3. There is no contradiction with the scriptures about the abolishment of the Old Covenant which Jesus preached to Israel.
You cannot give scriptures to prove this wrong. Jerry Kelso

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Interestingly, most cultures rest on one day out of seven. They seem to know instinctively that it is right. By your definition that would make the sabbath a moral law.

While most cultures may agree that it is good to take one day at least for rest from the work week, not all cultures agree that it is the Saturday Sabbath. In fact, our culture here in America takes two days of rest for the work week. The point here is that God's Word says Saturday is the weekly Sabbath, but not all people know instinctively that Saturday is the official rest for the week. So no. The Saturday Sabbath is not a moral law. Now, if God said take one or two days for rest during the week of your choice, then that would be different. But God's Word does not say that. God's Word specifically states that it is Saturday to take a day of rest under the Old Covenant. This applied to the Israelites for a specific time in history and it does not apply as a command for all of time for all of God's people.

However, that begs the point that the Law is one Law and not several. What law did God promise to write on the hearts of His people, according to Jeremiah 31:33, Ezekiel 11:19, Ezekiel 36:26, Hebrews 8:10, and Hebrews 10:16?

Jeremiah 31:33, Hebrews 8:10, and Hebrews 10:16 is clearly talking about the New Covenant (i.e. the New Testament) and it's applicable commands or laws. Ezekiel 36:26 sounds like something that can apply to the Israelite immediately. Ezekiel 11:19 sounds like something God was going to do for a select few Israelites who were faithful not too long after the writing of Ezekiel 11:19.

I believe the Old Testament saints were born again spiritually and they abided with GOD. For nobody can have salvation or life without Jesus. Nobody can have enlightenment without the Spirit. Nobody can do any good without a new heart or new spirit or without God abiding in them. Granted, most of the OT saints did not know who Jesus was, but they looked to Him (Who was the Messiah) for salvation (none the less). All men of God are saved by Jesus. Men of God have to abide in Christ to have life or salvation. For he that has the Son has life and he that does not have the Son does not have life (1 John 5:12).

In fact, Scripture says this for the Israelites:

"And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ." (1 Corinthians 10:4).

 

[jerry kelso]

sbc,

1. First, if one believes in sinless perfection with no possibility to sin then it is easy to not believing have to keep moral law. Why?
a). Because in sinless perfection, one believes they cannot sin because they are born of God 1 John 3:9.
b). Parallels with Old Covenant written law ethic different than the New Covenant law written in their heart Jeremiah 31:31-34; Hebrews 8:6-12.

2. These two positions are both Extreme OSAS or UES.
It is Calvinist T-U-L-I-P built on God’s sovereignty in everything with sinless perfection doctrine.

3. Jesus fulfilled the Mosaic Law
Matthew 5:17 under the KoH and the KoG message Matthew 6:33; 10:6-7.
Moses Law was abolished 1 Corinthians 3:13–6; Romans 10:4-5.
The New Covenant was ratified at the cross Matthew 26:28; Hebrews 8:6-7.
Today the Law of the New Covenant is fulfilled in the Law Of Love Romans 13:8-10: Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not covet, and if there be any commandment it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.
Love worketh no ill to his neighbor: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
Those commandments were in the Old Covenant Exodus 20. They are now in the New Covenant which is a departure Covenant Hebrews 6-7.
They were also before the law and revealed to them through their conscience by performing things of nature that is contained in the Mosaic law. Romans 2:14:15.

8. Morals: conforming to a standard of what is right and good.
Love is a right standard moral and the opposite is hate, which is a wrong standard, which is immoral.
This definition could fit the sabbath in the Old Covenant because they had to keep the sabbath on just Saturday which was mandatory like the rest of the law of Moses and they had judgements attached to them if they broke them. James 2:10.
We are not under that law and the sabbath can be celebrated on any day Colossians 2:16-17.
It is not a sin to celebrate sabbath on another day other than Saturday.
I was going to make a couple more points but I have to go to sleep.

9. So the point is God’s standard of Holiness which contains the law of love with morals as a standard to live by in the church age. So you can’t say that the structure is not there just because the term moral law is not physically there.

10. The only way I presume you don’t have to live by morals would be because God would do everything for you in one way or the other in which case we would be robots. This is not true love for it takes man’s cooperation of freewill choice.

11. It is Antinomianism that doesn’t believe in law.
Moral law is a law contained in the Bible.
God created Human government Genesis 6. God has a universe of fixed laws read Job 38 and Psalms
104. So why not moral laws for man to represent his Holiness which deals with sanctification and without Holiness no man shall see the Lord Hebrews 12:14.

12. SP doesn’t have to worry about performing moral actions because God is going to do it for him. Jerry Kelso

 

[SBC]

sbc,

1. The issue I was talking about was why you don’t believe in moral law.

2. The Bible does say the Old Covenant was abolished 1 Corinthians 3:13-16; Hebrews 8:6-7.

3. There is no contradiction with the scriptures about the abolishment of the Old Covenant which Jesus preached to Israel.
You cannot give scriptures to prove this wrong. Jerry Kelso

Trying to prove scripture is wrong is your gig not mine.

God Bless,
SBC

 

[SBC]

sbc,

1. First, if one believes in sinless perfection Jerry Kelso

Why address me when YOU are making a claim and then arguing against YOUR claim?

Very strange.

God Bless,
SBC

 

[jerry kelso]

Trying to prove scripture is wrong is your gig not mine.

God Bless,
SBC

1. Your statement is your claim and accusation but have given no scripture to disprove the scriptures I gave. That means it is your opinion. That is not my gig. Jerry Kelso

 

[jerry kelso]

Why address me when YOU are making a claim and then arguing against YOUR claim?

Very strange.

God Bless,
SBC

sbc,

1. I addressed the subject directly to the sinless perfection thought not you.

2. My motive was to list the connection between SP and morals.
You didn’t prove anything by scripture, by instead made these statements disagreeing with me.
You can disagree, but that doesn’t prove anything.

3. Saying I am arguing against my own claim with no evidence doesn’t prove anything.

4. I have given proof of the law being abolished after Christ fulfilled it and you have given no scriptural to disprove that.

5. Why don’t you tell me with scripture, as a SP proponent, why you don’t believe in living by a moral law? Jerry Kelso

 

[SBC]

sbc,

1. I addressed the subject directly to the "sinless perfection" thought not you.

2. My motive was to list the connection between SP and morals.
You didn’t "prove" anything by scripture, by instead made these statements disagreeing with me.
You can disagree, but that doesn’t "prove" anything.

3. Saying I am arguing against my own claim with no evidence doesn’t "prove" anything.

4. I have given proof of "the law being abolished" after Christ fulfilled it and you have given no scriptural to "disprove" that.

5. Why don’t you tell me with scripture, as a SP proponent, why "you don't believe" in living by a moral law? Jerry Kelso

The OP is about being SAVED....

You bring up what is NOT in scripture...
"sinless perfection"...
"Moral law"...
"Abolished law"...

You tell people what THEY think and BELIEVE, then want to THEM to disprove WITH Scripture, what you have brought up, and have thought and believed for them.

Same game different day. Old and boring.

God Bless,
SBC

 

[SBC]

It's nice texting is silent.

 

[jerry kelso]

The OP is about being SAVED....

You bring up what is NOT in scripture...
"sinless perfection"...
"Moral law"...
"Abolished law"...

You tell people what THEY think and BELIEVE, then want to THEM to disprove WITH Scripture, what you have brought up, and have thought and believed for them.

Same game different day. Old and boring.

God Bless,
SBC

sbc,

1. It is about Eternal Security due to Salvation.
Did you forget or didn’t think it was important?

2. Sinless Perfection deals with Salvation, and yes Morals.

3. Sinless Perfection just means that one never sins anymore.

4. Morals is the standard of doing right and good; immoral is wrong and bad.

5. Abolished Law Romans 10:4-5
Abolished is used in 1 Corinthians 3:13 and it was referring to the Old Covenant.

6. I didn’t tell you what to think but I did show the position you hold is. If you think it is wrong defend yourself biblically and show that what I said is wrong.
I haven’t changed in showing the Biblical position on the subject.
You have not changed in proving anything biblically, at least in proper exegesis. Are you that void of the English language you can’t understand it? Jerry Kelso

 

[SBC]

sbc,

1. It is about Eternal Security due to Salvation.
Did you forget or didn’t think it was important?

2. Sinless Perfection deals with Salvation, and yes Morals.

3. Sinless Perfection just means that one never sins anymore.

4. Morals is the standard of doing right and good; immoral is wrong and bad.

5. Abolished Law Romans 10:4-5
Abolished is used in 1 Corinthians 3:13 and it was referring to the Old Covenant.

6. I didn’t tell you what to think but I did show the position you hold is. If you think it is wrong defend yourself biblically and show that what I said is wrong.
I haven’t changed in showing the Biblical position on the subject.
You have not changed in proving anything biblically, at least in proper exegesis. Are you that void of the English language you can’t understand it? Jerry Kelso

1. I know Salvation is given once and is permanent.

2. Sinless perfection, does not to men, or relevant when speaking of men.

3. Disagree with your unBiblical term.

4. Thanks for sharing your interpretation of a man-made concept, but not interested in your interpretations of man-made concepts.

5. Jesus did not come to destroy the Law...
He came to fulfill the Law. Matt 5:17

Jesus came preaching a new Covenant.

So now you have a choice...
Remain Under the Law, and adhere to it.
Under the Old Covenant.
Or accept the Law has been fulfill, and be Under the New Covenant.

You seem to have revealed you make yourself subject to both, and why much of what you say is of no interest to me.

6. I understand the English Language just fine, when I speak for myself.
When you think and speak for me, It is likened to blackboard nail scratching.

God Bless,
SBC

 

[jerry kelso]

1. I know Salvation is given once and is permanent.

2. Sinless perfection, does not to men, or relevant when speaking of men.

3. Disagree with your unBiblical term.

4. Thanks for sharing your interpretation of a man-made concept, but not interested in your interpretations of man-made concepts.

5. Jesus did not come to destroy the Law...
He came to fulfill the Law. Matt 5:17

Jesus came preaching a new Covenant.

So now you have a choice...
Remain Under the Law, and adhere to it.
Under the Old Covenant.
Or accept the Law has been fulfill, and be Under the New Covenant.

You seem to have revealed you make yourself subject to both, and why much of what you say is of no interest to me.

6. I understand the English Language just fine, when I speak for myself.
When you think and speak for me, It is likened to blackboard nail scratching.

God Bless,
SBC

sbc,

1. Salvation is permanent if you don’t change masters and go into apostasy.

2. Sinless perfection would be of God for Jesus was sinless, but he didn’t use his divine powers to get the job done and God didn’t do everything for him, but, instead he cooperated with the Father and the anointing of the Holy Spirit and in all like passions was tempted like we were and didn’t sin. He emptied himself of his divine powers.

3. You don’t like labels but Jesus used labels such as sin and righteous, etc.

4. Matthew 5:17 of your interpretation with the scripture I have given has been debunked already.

5. You believe in NC Theology because you believe Jesus taught the NC to the Jews.
They were to receive the NC but they were still under the Old Covenant for they had no idea what the death and resurrection were till after the rejection of Christ and were still puzzled at the resurrection.
So you are NC theology Extreme Calvinist and you can’t get around scripturally or in plain English.
6. Your post remind me of a Congregationalists. Jerry kelso

 

[SBC]

sbc,

1. Salvation is permanent if you don’t change masters and go into apostasy.

2. Sinless perfection would be of God for Jesus was sinless, but he didn’t use his divine powers to get the job done and God didn’t do everything for him, but, instead he cooperated with the Father and the anointing of the Holy Spirit and in all like passions was tempted like we were and didn’t sin. He emptied himself of his divine powers.

3. You don’t like labels but Jesus used labels such as sin and righteous, etc.

4. Matthew 5:17 of your interpretation with the scripture I have given has been debunked already.

5. You believe in NC Theology because you believe Jesus taught the NC to the Jews.
They were to receive the NC but they were still under the Old Covenant for they had no idea what the death and resurrection were till after the rejection of Christ and were still puzzled at the resurrection.
So you are NC theology Extreme Calvinist and you can’t get around scripturally or in plain English.
6. Your post are remind me of a Congregationalists. Jerry kelso

1. Once a man is saved it permanent.

2. Sinless perfection, your label, not Scriptural.

3. I don't care for your labels.

4. Matt 5: 17
Says Jesus did not come to destroy the law.
Same as I said.
That is not an interpretation.

5: Same ole Jerry, pretending you are having a conversation with me, while you do the talking for both of us.
Amazing you don't see how weird that is.

God Bless,
SBC

 

[jerry kelso]

1. Once a man is saved it permanent.

2. Sinless perfection, your label, not Scriptural.

3. I don't care for your labels.

4. Matt 5: 17
Says Jesus did not come to destroy the law.
Same as I said.
That is not an interpretation.

5: Same ole Jerry, pretending you are having a conversation with me, while you do the talking for both of us.
Amazing you don't see how weird that is.

God Bless,
SBC

sbc,

1. No scripture as usual and that is why you have to post your rhetoric all the time.
Your post have nothing to say scripturally true and you don’t offer none and you will never be right because you have tunnel vision.
Your belief is like the congregational belief and they are only accountable to their church and supposedly God.
This is like a particular Church of God that believes the same way you do and they could still believe it when there was a sin committed of one of their own.
At least they were a little humbled if but for a season. Jerry Kelso

 

[SBC]

sbc,

1. No scripture as usual and that is why you have to post your rhetoric all the time.
Your post have nothing to say scripturally true and you don’t offer none and you will never be right because you have tunnel vision.
Your belief is like the congregational belief and they are only accountable to their church and supposedly God.
This is like a particular Church of God that believes the same way you do and they could still believe it when there was a sin committed of one of their own.
At least they were a little humbled if but for a season. Jerry Kelso

You are true to yourself.
Making accusations when people will not yield to you.
You want to argue Scripture on your terms, I'm still not interested.

God Bless,
SBC

 

[jerry kelso]

You are true to yourself.
Making accusations when people will not yield to you.
You want to argue Scripture on your terms, I'm still not interested.

God Bless,
SBC

sbc,

1. Staying true to God’s word not myself.

2. Making accusations when people will not yield to you is the pot caught in kettle black.

3. I don’t argue scripture on my terms, but I do on proper biblical exegesis.

4. You are not interested in knowing the truth by rightly dividing the word.

5. You need to study and understand the historical context of Jesus teachings which is under the Mosaic law in the KoH and KoG message.
Jesus was born of a woman made under the law Galatians 4:4.
Jesus never taught his death, burial and resurrection to Israel, it was the Kingdom message Matthew 4:17. When the nation rejected him Matthew 23:37-39
Jesus started mentioning his death but they didn’t understand it.
John 6:53-70 was about eating his flesh and drinking his blood and many of his disciples walked away.
Jesus asked the twelve, will you also go away? Peter said where will we go cause only you have the words of eternal life.
Matthew 16:21; From that time forth began Jesus to shew his disciples how that he must go into Jerusalem and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes and be killed and be raised again the third day.
Vs 22: Then Peter took him and began to rebuke him, saying, be it far from thee Lord, this shall not be unto thee.
Vs.23: But he turned and said unto Peter, GET THEE BEHIND ME SATAN, THOU ART AN OFFENSE UNTO ME, FOR THOU SAVOUREST NOT THE THINGS OF GOD, BUT THOSE THAT BE OF MEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This is a double reference because Christ was talking to Peter and Satan for it was Satan using him to not savor the things of God which had to do with the death and resurrection of Christ.
This is why New Covenant Theology is wrong.

6. It is your choice to not study to show yourself approved, otherwise you would be sharing more scripture instead of empty rhetoric. If you are not interested you can always be silent. Jerry Kelso

 

[SBC]

sbc,

1. Staying true to God’s word not myself.

2. Making accusations when people will not yield to you is the pot caught in kettle black.

3. I don’t argue scripture on my terms, but I do on proper biblical exegesis.

4. You are not interested in knowing the truth by rightly dividing the word.

5. You need to study and understand the historical context of Jesus teachings which is under the Mosaic law in the KoH and KoG message.
Jesus was born of a woman made under the law Galatians 4:4.
Jesus never taught his death, burial and resurrection to Israel, it was the Kingdom message Matthew 4:17. When the nation rejected him Matthew 23:37-39
Jesus started mentioning his death but they didn’t understand it.
John 6:53-70 was about eating his flesh and drinking his blood and many of his disciples walked away.
Jesus asked the twelve, will you also go away? Peter said where will we go cause only you have the words of eternal life.
Matthew 16:21; From that time forth began Jesus to shew his disciples how that he must go into Jerusalem and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes and be killed and be raised again the third day.
Vs 22: Then Peter took him and began to rebuke him, saying, be it far from thee Lord, this shall not be unto thee.
Vs.23: But he turned and said unto Peter, GET THEE BEHIND ME SATAN, THOU ART AN OFFENSE UNTO ME, FOR THOU SAVOUREST NOT THE THINGS OF GOD, BUT THOSE THAT BE OF MEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This is a double reference because Christ was talking to Peter and Satan for it was Satan using him to not savor the things of God which had to do with the death and resurrection of Christ.
This is why New Covenant Theology is wrong.

6. It is your choice to not study to show yourself approved, otherwise you would be sharing more scripture instead of empty rhetoric. If you are not interested you can always be silent. Jerry Kelso

Again true to yourself. No need to address me, while you do all the thinking, accusing, and dictating.

God Bless,
SBC