One saved always saved (Eternal Security)

[Bible Highlighter]

2. Sinless perfection would be of God for Jesus was sinless, but he didn’t use his divine powers to get the job done and God didn’t do everything for him, but, instead he cooperated with the Father and the anointing of the Holy Spirit and in all like passions was tempted like we were and didn’t sin. He emptied himself of his divine powers.

I agree with you on whole heartedly on how Eternal Security is unbiblical, my dear brother; The only thing I disagree with you on is the Kenosis.

I believe Christ's Omniscience (i.e. to have all knowledge) was merely suppressed during the Incarnation (or before the foundation of the world) so as to be like a man (limited in knowledge) (Philippians 2:6-9). For Christ was that like figure (type) of Adam (Romans 5:14), and both Adam and Jesus were limited in knowledge as a part of God's design for a certain amount of time. Jesus said and did everything the Father told him to say and do. Jesus always pleased his Father. So He could be like a man who served God perfectly so as to be our substitute.

But Jesus was also God, too.

1. Jesus said He was going to raise up the temple (his body) three days later.
2. Jesus said He had power to raise the dead to life just as the Father can raise the dead to life.
3. Jesus said where two are three are gathered in his name, He is among them.
4. Jesus held everything together by the word of his power when he purged us of our sins (on the cross).
5. Jesus had the power of God to forgive sin and provide eternal life to people.
6. Jesus had the power to take away the sins of the entire world.
7. Jesus received worship as God.​

Only God could do those things.

So Jesus was not only just a flesh and blood man (born of a virgin) who was limited in knowledge, could feel pain, get tired, get hungry, etc. He also the Son of God who was Holy and perfect in everything He did. He quoted a Psalm of David (Psalms 22) not because He was speaking from some human side of Himself. The body was just a shell. For He said so Himself. It was a temple. Jesus was speaking as God but limited in knowledge because His divine attribute of Omniscience was suppressed in the Incarnation (or before the foundation of the world). When Christ had achieved His mission, there would have been no reason for Him not to have His Omniscience back. This mission was paying the penalty for sin on the cross, then conquering sin and death with his resurrection, then ascending to the Father (After He told Mary to touch Him not) so as to be our mediator and Heavenly High Priest.

So I do not believe Jesus emptied Himself of all of His divine attributes, otherwise we would all be doomed.

 

[jerry kelso]

Again true to yourself. No need to address me, while you do all the thinking, accusing, and dictating.

God Bless,
SBC

sbc,

1. No scripture because no importance, no use to being unfair in exegesis, no thinking leaves accusing and dictating untruth.
This leads to no sense in posting on this board at all. But that is up to the board.

2. You have no evidence to back up from scripture to prove your position lot a lone the scripture position I have given.
Why do you keep trying to disprove scripture with misplaced and empty rhetoric?
You want me to answer all your questions and will half answer or skip answering my questions most of the time.
When you cannot debunk the scriptural context and understanding historically and otherwise you run away and go back to disagreeing and rhetoric or a mantra.
I already showed by scripture and the proper context that you were wrong about how Jesus taught the Old Covenant and how the disciples didn’t know this even after Israel’s rejection by Israel and you couldn’t give an answer and skipped it. This is not fair.

3. You have shown in your posts that you don’t believe in proper context and harmony of the scripture. That is a plain fact.
If you said a couple of statements and that was all that was heard and not the whole context that brought your thought out and somebody else accused you of a particular thing by what you said
when you didn’t mean and if they would’ve understood if they would have read the rest of the context, wouldn’t you be mad? I can only imagine how you might answer.

4. I have read another of your posts on a different subject and you were asking questions, in my opinion, not to learn or merely seeking info to help understand another position but to bait them to spread your untruthful doctrine.
Silence is golden so why not be silent? Unless you have scriptural evidence of historical context etc.
But, I am sure that is not important to you. Jerry Kelso

 

[jerry kelso]

I agree with you on whole heartedly on how Eternal Security is unbiblical, my dear brother; The only thing I disagree with you on is the Kenosis.

I believe Christ's Omniscience (i.e. to have all knowledge) was merely suppressed during the Incarnation (or before the foundation of the world) so as to be like a man (limited in knowledge) (Philippians 2:6-9). For Christ was that like figure (type) of Adam (Romans 5:14), and both Adam and Jesus were limited in knowledge as a part of God's design for a certain amount of time. Jesus said and did everything the Father told him to say and do. Jesus always pleased his Father. So He could be like a man who served God perfectly so as to be our substitute.

But Jesus was also God, too.

1. Jesus said He was going to raise up the temple (his body) three days later.
2. Jesus said He had power to raise the dead to life just as the Father can raise the dead to life.
3. Jesus said where two are three are gathered in his name, He is among them.
4. Jesus held everything together by the word of his power when he purged us of our sins (on the cross).
5. Jesus had the power of God to forgive sin and provide eternal life to people.
6. Jesus had the power to take away the sins of the entire world.
7. Jesus received worship as God.​

Only God could do those things.

So Jesus was not only just a flesh and blood man (born of a virgin) who was limited in knowledge, could feel pain, get tired, get hungry, etc. He also the Son of God who was Holy and perfect in everything He did. He quoted a Psalm of David (Psalms 22) not because He was speaking from some human side of Himself. The body was just a shell. For He said so Himself. It was a temple. Jesus was speaking as God but limited in knowledge because His divine attribute of Omniscience was suppressed in the Incarnation (or before the foundation of the world). When Christ had achieved His mission, there would have been no reason for Him not to have His Omniscience back. This mission was paying the penalty for sin on the cross, then conquering sin and death with his resurrection, then ascending to the Father (After He told Mary to touch Him not) so as to be our mediator and Heavenly High Priest.

So I do not believe Jesus emptied Himself of all of His divine attributes, otherwise we would all be doomed.

jason0047,

1. This is an interesting subject and is important.
Laying down doesn’t mean that he didn’t have them because how could he be fully God and Fully man?
So he was a divine- human being.

2. He was not the Father or the Holy Spirit for the Father was in Heaven and he was on earth and could not have been incarnated in the Father Matthew 5:16, 45, 48;6:1, 9; 7:21; 16:17; 18:10; 23:9 Dake’s God’s Plan For Man pg. 379 V Jesus Christ is not the Father or the Holy Ghost.
The Holy Ghost took part in the incarnation so he could not be the same as Christ Luke 1:35.

3. It was not his divine nature that he emptied for he would have ceased to be God.

4. He emptied himself of divine attributes so he could be “In all things like his brethren Hebrews 2:8-19.

I have to go but I’ll get back maybe at lunch. Jerry kelso

 

[SBC]

sbc,

1. No scripture because no importance, no use to being unfair in exegesis, no thinking leaves accusing and dictating untruth.
This leads to no sense in posting on this board at all. But that is up to the board.

2. You have no evidence to back up from scripture to prove your position lot a lone the scripture position I have given.
Why do you keep trying to disprove scripture with misplaced and empty rhetoric?
You want me to answer all your questions and will half answer or skip answering my questions most of the time.
When you cannot debunk the scriptural context and understanding historically and otherwise you run away and go back to disagreeing and rhetoric or a mantra.
I already showed by scripture and the proper context that you were wrong about how Jesus taught the Old Covenant and how the disciples didn’t know this even after Israel’s rejection by Israel and you couldn’t give an answer and skipped it. This is not fair.

3. You have shown in your posts that you don’t believe in proper context and harmony of the scripture. That is a plain fact.
If you said a couple of statements and that was all that was heard and not the whole context that brought your thought out and somebody else accused you of a particular thing by what you said
when you didn’t mean and if they would’ve understood if they would have read the rest of the context, wouldn’t you be mad? I can only imagine how you might answer.

4. I have read another of your posts on a different subject and you were asking questions, in my opinion, not to learn or merely seeking info to help understand another position but to bait them to spread your untruthful doctrine.
Silence is golden so why not be silent? Unless you have scriptural evidence of historical context etc.
But, I am sure that is not important to you. Jerry Kelso

Funny in a sad way, but still funny.

God Bless,
SBC

 

[Bible Highlighter]

2. He was not the Father or the Holy Spirit for the Father was in Heaven and he was on earth and could not have been incarnated in the Father Matthew 5:16, 45, 48;6:1, 9; 7:21; 16:17; 18:10; 23:9 Dake’s God’s Plan For Man pg. 379 V Jesus Christ is not the Father or the Holy Ghost.
The Holy Ghost took part in the incarnation so he could not be the same as Christ Luke 1:35.

Well, actually, the Father was in Christ, too. The Holy Spirit also rested upon Jesus, as well. Yes, Jesus is a distinct person from the Father and the Holy Spirit. You will get no argument from me on that one.

3. It was not his divine nature that he emptied for he would have ceased to be God.

4. He emptied himself of divine attributes so he could be “In all things like his brethren Hebrews 2:8-19.

I have shown you a list of points (taken from Scripture) that clearly show you that Jesus did have power of His own. So the idea that He emptied himself of his divine attributes is simply not true. Jesus said He can raise the dead just as the Father can raise the dead. Jesus said where two or more are gathered in his name, there he is among them. Jesus held all things together by the word of His power when He purged us of our sins.

I have to go but I’ll get back maybe at lunch. Jerry kelso

Okay. I hope it was a good lunch;
And may God bless you.

 

[jerry kelso]

Funny in a sad way, but still funny.

God Bless,
SBC

sbc,

1. Sad in your case forever. Jerry Kelso

 

[jerry kelso]

Well, actually, the Father was in Christ, too. The Holy Spirit also rested upon Jesus, as well. Yes, Jesus is a distinct person from the Father and the Holy Spirit. You will get no argument from me on that one.



I have shown you a list of points (taken from Scripture) that clearly show you that Jesus did have power of His own. So the idea that He emptied himself of his divine attributes is simply not true. Jesus said He can raise the dead just as the Father can raise the dead. Jesus said where two or more are gathered in his name, there he is among them. Jesus held all things together by the word of His power when He purged us of our sins.



Okay. I hope it was a good lunch;
And may God bless you.

I agree with you on whole heartedly on how Eternal Security is unbiblical, my dear brother; The only thing I disagree with you on is the Kenosis.

I believe Christ's Omniscience (i.e. to have all knowledge) was merely suppressed during the Incarnation (or before the foundation of the world) so as to be like a man (limited in knowledge) (Philippians 2:6-9). For Christ was that like figure (type) of Adam (Romans 5:14), and both Adam and Jesus were limited in knowledge as a part of God's design for a certain amount of time. Jesus said and did everything the Father told him to say and do. Jesus always pleased his Father. So He could be like a man who served God perfectly so as to be our substitute.

But Jesus was also God, too.

1. Jesus said He was going to raise up the temple (his body) three days later.
2. Jesus said He had power to raise the dead to life just as the Father can raise the dead to life.
3. Jesus said where two are three are gathered in his name, He is among them.
4. Jesus held everything together by the word of his power when he purged us of our sins (on the cross).
5. Jesus had the power of God to forgive sin and provide eternal life to people.
6. Jesus had the power to take away the sins of the entire world.
7. Jesus received worship as God.​

Only God could do those things.

So Jesus was not only just a flesh and blood man (born of a virgin) who was limited in knowledge, could feel pain, get tired, get hungry, etc. He also the Son of God who was Holy and perfect in everything He did. He quoted a Psalm of David (Psalms 22) not because He was speaking from some human side of Himself. The body was just a shell. For He said so Himself. It was a temple. Jesus was speaking as God but limited in knowledge because His divine attribute of Omniscience was suppressed in the Incarnation (or before the foundation of the world). When Christ had achieved His mission, there would have been no reason for Him not to have His Omniscience back. This mission was paying the penalty for sin on the cross, then conquering sin and death with his resurrection, then ascending to the Father (After He told Mary to touch Him not) so as to be our mediator and Heavenly High Priest.

So I do not believe Jesus emptied Himself of all of His divine attributes, otherwise we would all be doomed.

jason0047,

Sorry, I have been under the weather.

1. John 2:19: Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple and in three days I will raise it up.
This is about the death and resurrection.

2. Romans 8:11: But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwells in you.
This is the answer to 1 John 2:19.
The Spirit will raise up Jesus from the dead.

3. Matthew 18:20; For where there are two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

4. Verse 19; Again I say unto you, that if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in Heaven.
This is the answer to verse 20.

5. Matthew 9:6 power given to Christ to forgive sins, and all the sins of the world is because of the Father.
John 5:19, Then answered Jesus and said unto them. The son can do nothing of himself but what he seeth the Father do: for what things so ever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.
This is the answer to Matthew 9:6, John 1:29.
Hebrews 1:6; the father said to let all the angels worship him.
Hebrews 2:17; 2:16-18 he was made into his brethren so he could be a faithful and merciful high Priests in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of his people For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted. he is able to succor them that are tempted. Jerry kelso

 

[Bible Highlighter]

jason0047,

Sorry, I have been under the weather.

1. John 2:19: Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple and in three days I will raise it up.
This is about the death and resurrection.

2. Romans 8:11: But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwells in you.
This is the answer to 1 John 2:19.
The Spirit will raise up Jesus from the dead.

Actually Scripture says all three persons of the Trinity (i.e. the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost) took part in the resurrection (God the Father raised up Jesus: See Acts of the Apostles 2:24, Acts of the Apostles 2:32. The Holy Spirit raised up Jesus: See Romans 8:11, 1 Peter 3:18. Jesus raised up Himself: See John 2:19, John 10:18). However, John 2:19 is not nullified by Romans 8:11. They work in harmony with each other. Jesus says, "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up." (John 2:19). Jesus says, "I..." and not the Spirit in this case. Jesus refers to Himself as "I" in John 2:19 in reference to the resurrection. So Jesus has power to raise Himself from the dead. This should not be surprising because Jesus said elsewhere that He has power to raise the dead just as the Father has power to raise the dead (See John 5:21).

3. Matthew 18:20; For where there are two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

4. Verse 19; Again I say unto you, that if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in Heaven.
This is the answer to verse 20.

Again, the truth of one verse is not undone by the other verse. Matthew 18:20 is not undone by Matthew 18:19. Matthew 18:20 is still talking about how when two or three are gathered in Christ's name, He is actually among them with the portion of Himself that is spirit. For Jesus says, "Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? " (John 14:10). This means Jesus is actually in the Father in Heaven and the Father is in Him while He is on the Earth. This means that Jesus's spirit portion of Himself is in the Father in Heaven. Jesus says confirms this elsewhere in Scripture when He says,

"And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven." (John 3:13).

Jesus says the Son of Man is in heaven. How can that be if He is talking with Nicodemus upon the Earth? Well, John 14:10 tells us He is in the Father. The Father is in heaven. So Jesus's power of being Omnipresent was not suppressed during His earthly ministry.

5. Matthew 9:6 power given to Christ to forgive sins, and all the sins of the world is because of the Father.
John 5:19, Then answered Jesus and said unto them. The son can do nothing of himself but what he seeth the Father do: for what things so ever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.

John 5:19 is not saying that He can do not divine power of Himself. The Scripture I already shown you proves otherwise. What Jesus is saying in John 5:19 is that He cannot act on His own without the Father. For the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost exist as one God. They breath in harmony in their actions. That is what it is saying. Nowhere does John 5:19 say that He does not have any divine powers and that He has to rely on the Father alone for power. In your fancy Modern Translation, you get Matthew 9:6 saying that the Father is giving Jesus the authority to forgive sin. However, in the KJV, Jesus says in Matthew 9:6, "But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins," So Jesus has POWER. He has got the power! Why? Because Jesus is God.

This is the answer to Matthew 9:6, John 1:29.

Well, I already showed you that Matthew 9:6 is not what you think it is saying.

As for John 1:29:
John 1:29 says He is the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world. It does not say that the Father is making this possible alone. While the Father does play in part in our redemption, too; The Son (and not the Father) was the One who actually taking away our sins. For Jesus (and not the Father) bore our sins within His body so as to be our substitute.

Hebrews 1:6; the father said to let all the angels worship him.

This proves that Jesus is still God and He is not a God completely stripped of His all power. For if you strip away God's power He is not longer God. For is Superman still Superman if he is stripped of his powers? No. Jesus is worthy of worship by angels because He is the same yesterday, today, and forever.

Hebrews 2:17; 2:16-18 he was made into his brethren so he could be a faithful and merciful high Priests in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of his people For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted. he is able to succor them that are tempted. Jerry kelso

Jesus was made LIKE unto His brethren who suffered while being externally tempted, whereby He is able to more fully appreciate in helping the brethren when they are tempted and comfort them (and give them strength to overcome). Jesus was not actually tempted like you and me. He was tempted externally not internally. To be tempted by something internally means that we are having inclinations to doing something sinful. Jesus did not have any sinful inclinations because He is the perfect sinless Son of God.

 

[jerry kelso]

Actually Scripture says all three persons of the Trinity (i.e. the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost) took part in the resurrection (God the Father raised up Jesus: See Acts of the Apostles 2:24, Acts of the Apostles 2:32. The Holy Spirit raised up Jesus: See Romans 8:11, 1 Peter 3:18. Jesus raised up Himself: See John 2:19, John 10:18). However, John 2:19 is not nullified by Romans 8:11. They work in harmony with each other. Jesus says, "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up." (John 2:19). Jesus says, "I..." and not the Spirit in this case. Jesus refers to Himself as "I" in John 2:19 in reference to the resurrection. So Jesus has power to raise Himself from the dead. This should not be surprising because Jesus said elsewhere that He has power to raise the dead just as the Father has power to raise the dead (See John 5:21).



Again, the truth of one verse is not undone by the other verse. Matthew 18:20 is not undone by Matthew 18:19. Matthew 18:20 is still talking about how when two or three are gathered in Christ's name, He is actually among them with the portion of Himself that is spirit. For Jesus says, "Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? " (John 14:10). This means Jesus is actually in the Father in Heaven and the Father is in Him while He is on the Earth. This means that Jesus's spirit portion of Himself is in the Father in Heaven. Jesus says confirms this elsewhere in Scripture when He says,

"And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven." (John 3:13).

Jesus says the Son of Man is in heaven. How can that be if He is talking with Nicodemus upon the Earth? Well, John 14:10 tells us He is in the Father. The Father is in heaven. So Jesus's power of being Omnipresent was not suppressed during His earthly ministry.



John 5:19 is not saying that He can do not divine power of Himself. The Scripture I already shown you proves otherwise. What Jesus is saying in John 5:19 is that He cannot act on His own without the Father. For the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost exist as one God. They breath in harmony in their actions. That is what it is saying. Nowhere does John 5:19 say that He does not have any divine powers and that He has to rely on the Father alone for power. In your fancy Modern Translation, you get Matthew 9:6 saying that the Father is giving Jesus the authority to forgive sin. However, in the KJV, Jesus says in Matthew 9:6, "But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins," So Jesus has POWER. He has got the power! Why? Because Jesus is God.



Well, I already showed you that Matthew 9:6 is not what you think it is saying.

As for John 1:29:
John 1:29 says He is the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world. It does not say that the Father is making this possible alone. While the Father does play in part in our redemption, too; The Son (and not the Father) was the One who actually taking away our sins. For Jesus (and not the Father) bore our sins within His body so as to be our substitute.



This proves that Jesus is still God and He is not a God completely stripped of His all power. For if you strip away God's power He is not longer God. For is Superman still Superman if he is stripped of his powers? No. Jesus is worthy of worship by angels because He is the same yesterday, today, and forever.



Jesus was made LIKE unto His brethren who suffered while being externally tempted, whereby He is able to more fully appreciate in helping the brethren when they are tempted and comfort them (and give them strength to overcome). Jesus was not actually tempted like you and me. He was tempted externally not internally. To be tempted by something internally means that we are having inclinations to doing something sinful. Jesus did not have any sinful inclinations because He is the perfect sinless Son of God.

Jason0047,

1. Acts 10:38; HOW GOD ANOINTED JESUS OF NAZARETH WITH THE HOLY GHOST WITH POWER : AND HEALING ALL THAT WERE OPPRESSED OF THE DEVIL!
Matthew 9:6; the so hath power on earth to forgive sins and heal the sick. It’s true but only with the spirit and the father.
2. God with the Holy Spirit with power is Jesus healed all oppressed of the devil. This is the basis for Matthew 9:6.
John 14:12: verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me shall he do shall the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I GO TO MY FATHER.
John 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou with me with thine own self with the glory with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
Matthew 28:18; And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, ALL POWER IS GIVEN UNTO ME IN HEAVEN And In EARTH.
This is about the attributes and glory that he had with the Father before his earthly life as man.

3. John 2:19 Christ fulfilled this with the anointing and power of the Holy Ghost.
John 5:21; Jesus did what his Father did because it was the father’s power.
Jesus was always God because the Father had the angels worship Christ when he was born.

4. Jesus was never stripped of his divine powers. He layed aside his divine powers.
Phillipians 2:5, Let this mind be in you , which is also in Christ Jesus:
Verse 6; Who being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: Verse 7 But made himself of no reputation and took upon him the form of a servant and was made unto the likeness of men. Verse 8; and being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself became obedient unto death even the death of the cross.

5. FOR WE HAVE NOT AN HIGH PRIEST WHICH CANNOT BE TOUCHED WITH THE FEELINGS OF OUR INFIRMITIES, BUT WAS IN All POINTS TEMPTED LIKE AS WE ARE YET WITHOUT SIN.
We are all tempted from without or within our minds but until it is acted upon it not sin. When it is acted upon it it is lust and when love conceived it is sin James 4:1.

6. Jesus had the power to do miracles, but it was with the Father and the anointing of the Holy Spirit he did what his Father told him and to do his will.
Look at Matthew 3:16-17; Luke 4:14-21, John 2:11; 3:34; Acts 10:38. Jerry Kelso

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Jason0047,

1. Acts 10:38; HOW GOD ANOINTED JESUS OF NAZARETH WITH THE HOLY GHOST WITH POWER : AND HEALING ALL THAT WERE OPPRESSED OF THE DEVIL!
Matthew 9:6; the so hath power on earth to forgive sins and heal the sick. It’s true but only with the spirit and the father.
2. God with the Holy Spirit with power is Jesus healed all oppressed of the devil. This is the basis for Matthew 9:6.
John 14:12: verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me shall he do shall the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I GO TO MY FATHER.
John 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou with me with thine own self with the glory with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
Matthew 28:18; And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, ALL POWER IS GIVEN UNTO ME IN HEAVEN And In EARTH.
This is about the attributes and glory that he had with the Father before his earthly life as man.

3. John 2:19 Christ fulfilled this with the anointing and power of the Holy Ghost.
John 5:21; Jesus did what his Father did because it was the father’s power.
Jesus was always God because the Father had the angels worship Christ when he was born.

4. Jesus was never stripped of his divine powers. He layed aside his divine powers.
Phillipians 2:5, Let this mind be in you , which is also in Christ Jesus:
Verse 6; Who being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: Verse 7 But made himself of no reputation and took upon him the form of a servant and was made unto the likeness of men. Verse 8; and being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself became obedient unto death even the death of the cross.

5. FOR WE HAVE NOT AN HIGH PRIEST WHICH CANNOT BE TOUCHED WITH THE FEELINGS OF OUR INFIRMITIES, BUT WAS IN All POINTS TEMPTED LIKE AS WE ARE YET WITHOUT SIN.
We are all tempted from without or within our minds but until it is acted upon it not sin. When it is acted upon it it is lust and when love conceived it is sin James 4:1.

6. Jesus had the power to do miracles, but it was with the Father and the anointing of the Holy Spirit he did what his Father told him and to do his will.
Look at Matthew 3:16-17; Luke 4:14-21, John 2:11; 3:34; Acts 10:38. Jerry Kelso

Rather than go back and forth again with Scripture whereby you will not consider what the words in the Bible are actually saying (that I put forth), lets use logic this time instead. Again, I will ask you. Is Superman still Superman if he lays aside his powers? Yes, or no?

In other words, part of being GOD is that One is all powerful, all knowing, and can be everywhere present, etc.

Note: When I said Jesus was stripped of His powers, this would include Him laying his powers aside under the Father's authority. In either case, I was saying that you were referring to the fact that Jesus did not have any of His own divine powers during His Earthly ministry. To me this is wrong to say such a thing because it is an attempt to deny a certain aspect of the Incarnation or in Jesus being GOD.

 

[jerry kelso]

Rather than go back and forth again with Scripture whereby you will not consider what the words in the Bible are actually saying (that I put forth), lets use logic this time instead. Again, I will ask you. Is Superman still Superman if he lays aside his powers? Yes, or no?

In other words, part of being GOD is that One is all powerful, all knowing, and can be everywhere present, etc.

Note: When I said Jesus was stripped of His powers, this would include Him laying his powers aside under the Father's authority. In either case, I was saying that you were referring to the fact that Jesus did not have any of His own divine powers during His Earthly ministry. To me this is wrong to say such a thing because it is an attempt to deny a certain aspect of the Incarnation or in Jesus being GOD.

jason0047,

1. Jesus not using his divine attributes has nothing to do with disanulling him as God. Jesus can use his powers anytime he wants to, but that doesn’t deny that he is not God. There are plenty of examples in the Bible to prove this?


2. Superman was still Superman when he got sick with kryptonite. He wasn’t using his supernatural powers because he decided not to use them or because he was being helped.
He couldn’t do nothing because of Kryptonite being more powerful than him enough to make him sick and in which he could die.

3. What is the certain aspect of incarnation being denied?
Wasn’t Jesus conceived in Mary of the Holy Spirit Matthew 1:18-25 and didn’t the power of the most high overshadow Mary? Luke 1:39
This didn’t keep him from being Immanuel, God with us. Matthew 1:22-23. Let me know. Jerry kelso

 

[christiang2]

Eternal security is the doctrine that when a person is saved nothing can affect their salvation. They can never lose it for any reason. I believe Eternal Security is true because of the following verses:

John 3:16

For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.


John 6:37-6:40

"All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day."

John 10:27-29


"My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand."


Tell me, how can you read those verses and NOT believe in Eternal Security? Jesus is extremely clear. Out of all that the Father gives to Jesus he will lose NONE of them! In other words, Everyone's salvation is Eternally secure! It's right there in black and white! So, what do you think? Is Eternal Security real? Why or why not?

Once you are sealed with the holy spirit, you can never lose him, which is why this is called a "seal". But there are other considerations you must take into account, for even though "once saved always saved" is true.....

1. When you receive the holy spirit, you become freed from the sinful nature, so it therefore becomes impossible to ever sin again. If you sin, then you have not truly received the holy spirit.
2. Even if it were possible to sin after receiving the holy spirit, if you did sin, you can never again be brought to repentance again.
3. You will suffer and more than likely be martyred because you now belong to Christ since you have been sealed with the holy spirit. Whoever does not receive this seal, does not belong to Christ.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

jason0047,

1. Jesus not using his divine attributes has nothing to do with disanulling him as God. Jesus can use his powers anytime he wants to, but that doesn’t deny that he is not God. There are plenty of examples in the Bible to prove this?

So you are saying that Jesus had power but He simply chose not to use it?
I agree that this is true most of the time but not entirely. There are times Jesus used His own power. The Scriptures also make clear that Jesus still had power during His earthly ministry (Note: I am not going to repeat the verses that you already disagreed with).

2. Superman was still Superman when he got sick with kryptonite. He wasn’t using his supernatural powers because he decided not to use them or because he was being helped.
He couldn’t do nothing because of Kryptonite being more powerful than him enough to make him sick and in which he could die.

The point that I was trying to make is that if Superman lost his powers is he still Superman? I would say... "no." If Superman simply chose to not use his Superman powers, then that would be different. He would still be Superman because he still has the power as Superman.

Actually, to be more precise with Superman being more like Jesus:
The source of Superman's powers would would have to be exclusively from his spirit alone and not his body. His body would be mortal (at least until he died and resurrected - whereby it would then become immortal).

3. What is the certain aspect of incarnation being denied?
Wasn’t Jesus conceived in Mary of the Holy Spirit Matthew 1:18-25 and didn’t the power of the most high overshadow Mary? Luke 1:39
This didn’t keep him from being Immanuel, God with us. Matthew 1:22-23. Let me know. Jerry kelso

I thought you were claiming that Christ set aside (meaning He got rid of His divine attributes whereby He no longer had them for a certain amount of time). It sounds like you believe Jesus had power but He simply chose not to use this power. While I may disagree with this position (because I believe the Scriptures clearly say that Jesus did use His powers during His earthly ministry), I agree that Christ did not make an open show of His powers that He was God to everyone. In other words, Jesus did not float above the ground and declare He was God to every single person and crush big objects from far away by clenching his fists. I also believe Jesus suppressed His divine attribute of Omniscience (i.e. to know all things) during His Earthly ministry, as well. This was so that He could be a like type figure of Adam (Who was also limited in knowledge for a certain amount of time).

Side Note:

I hope you are feeling better, my friend. You said before you were under the weather a little. I will pray that you will make a 100% recovery soon (if you have not already).

May God bless you greatly.

 

[jerry kelso]

jason0047,

jason0047,

1. What do you think Christ emptied of himself?
We both agree he was fully God and fully man.
Why do you believe that he had to use his own power of his own accord?
The scripture says that he did all things by the anointing of the Holy Spirit and power of the Father. He didn’t do anything without his father’s permission that had to do with his will.
So answer the two questions I posed and maybe we can get better clarification. Thanks and recovery is doing pretty good. Jerry Kelso

 

[Bible Highlighter]

jason0047,

1. What do you think Christ emptied of himself?

Dear Jerry:

Well, I believe the KJV is correct in Philippians 2:7 when it says that Christ: "made himself of no reputation" and the Modern Translations are wrong for saying that Christ: "emptied himself"; In fact, the New Living Translation (NLT) erroneously says, "he gave up his divine privileges."

See, you may not realize this but there is an attack upon the Word of God. The devil is seeking to change the Word subtly to change the faith ever so slightly to fit his agenda in corrupting men.

Now, while I may read Modern Translations sometimes to update the language (from the 1600's English), etc. the King James is my final word of authority. I believe the Modern Translations subtly try to take out key points in important discussions within the Bible (Which can effect doctrine or Biblical truths). For example: In Romans 7 Paul talks from the Jew's perspective in keeping the Old Testament Law (Which leads to problems), and he gives us the climax or heart of his message as a solution in Romans 8:1. Now, certain modern translations have eliminated "who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." Eliminating this passage destroys the whole thrust of Paul's argument. Walking in the Spirit is the key to being in Christ Jesus. You eliminate that and you destroy Paul's argument. Also, 1 John 5:7 is the only verse in the Bible that is the clearest and most concise teaching on the Godhead (i.e. the Trinity).

Also, a simple side by side comparison of the KJV vs Modern Translations shows us that the devil tries to place his name in the Modern Versions. Have no idea what I am talking about? Click on the spoiler button to read my lengthy explanation with Scripture.

Spoiler

Many Bible versions say that it is the dragon who is standing on the sea shore in Revelation. This is just evil and wrong.

The following is a Modern Translation rendering for Revelation 13:1,

"The dragon stood on the shore of the sea. And I saw a beast coming out of the sea. It had ten horns and seven heads, with ten crowns on its horns, and on each head a blasphemous name." (Revelation 13:1).​

See, if you know anything about Bible language, standing on something means that you "own it"; And the devil wants to own you. In the King James, John is standing on the seashore. Yet in many Bible versions the dragon (i.e. the devil) is standing on the seashore.

Why is this a problem?

Let's look at...

Genesis 22:17

"That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the seashore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;"

Did you catch that? God says to Abraham that He will multiply his seed as the stars of the heaven and as the sand which is upon the seashore where he will then possess the gate of his enemies (i.e. the devil and his kingdom). The apostle John who wrote Revelation was Jewish and he was the promised seed of Genesis 22 standing on the seashore in Revelation 13. It was not the dragon or the devil standing on the seashore.

For certain Modern Versions eliminate the part of the passage in Revelation 13:1 that says that John is standing on the seashore (When he refers to himself as "I").

In fact, this is not the only time the devil has tried to place his name in the Bible in exchange for something that is supposed to be sacred or holy. We see the devil tries to place his name in Modern Translations in Daniel 3.

In Daniel 3, the Babylonian king says there is one like the "Son of God" in the fiery furnace along with Daniel's three friends. This is Jesus! Yet, in the Modern Translations it says the "son of the gods." In many false religions we can see how certain gods had mated with human females and created a hybrid. This is popular even in Greek mythology. So who saved Daniel's friends? Jesus or some hybrid like Hercules?

Nebuchadnezzar thought this was an angel of God (singular and not plural).

"Then Nebuchadnezzar spake, and said, Blessed be the God of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, who hath sent his angel, and delivered his servants that trusted in him, and have changed the king's word, and yielded their bodies, that they might not serve nor worship any god, except their own God." (Daniel 3:28).

This was not the "son of the gods (plural) (little "g")!!!
No way Hosea! I mean, "No way José!"
Nebuchadnezzar clearly was referencing the most high God.
The Bible says (even something similar in your Modern Version),

"Then Nebuchadnezzar came near to the mouth of the burning fiery furnace, and spake, and said, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, ye servants of the most high God, come forth, and come hither. Then Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, came forth of the midst of the fire." (Daniel 3:26).

Angels are called the: "sons of God" in Job.

The fourth person in the fire was still Jesus! The son of God. The Scriptures were still correct in their inspiration by God when they say, "and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God." While Nebuchadnezzar did not know it was the second person of the Godhead or the Trinity, the Lord our God who inspired Scripture surely would have glorified the name of the Son of God (Jesus) in this instance. For it was Jesus who was in the fire with Daniel's three friends!

Also, please check out this thread here, as well. It will help to explain this situation a little better, too.

Jesus is the Messenger of the Lord in the Old Testament.
(Please take note: I do not believe Jesus is an angelic being; I believe Jesus is the second person of the Godhead or the Trinity and that He is fully 100% God who took on the flesh of man).

In Isaiah 14:12, the devil's name "Lucifer" is replaced with "Day Star" or the "Morning Star."
Yes, I am aware that "morning stars" are angels in the book of Job.

But Modern Translations also say this is the Shining Star or the Son of the Dawn. Why?

Jesus says,
"I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star." (Revelation 22:16).

So Jesus is the BRIGHT and MORNING star!

Yet, the individual in Isaiah 14:12 in Modern Translations is called the shining (bright) and morning star or the Day Star, etc.

So the devil is trying to be like the most high here. He is taking a similar sounding title of Jesus in Isaiah 14:12.

For where is the bright and morning star up in the sky?
It is the sun.
That is why He is called the bright and morning star because the sun is bright and rises in the morning.

Also, Lucifer means "light bearer."
Scripture tells us this is what it means.

"And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light." (2 Corinthians 11:14).

The word "angel" also means "messenger." So 2 Corinthians 11:14 is saying that Satan is a light messenger or light bearer. In fact, when Satan is described with having all kinds of jewelry on him, it was symbolic of who he was. Certain gemstones refract light. They are not light themselves, but they merely reflect whatever light is in existence. Gemstones are like little light bearers. So how fitting the name "Lucifer" is for the devil. Yet, Modern Translations seek to give the devil a name that is similar to Jesus. This is wrong (of course).

We both agree he was fully God and fully man.

Well, that depends. Do you believe Jesus did not have His powers temporarily? Or do you believe Jesus simply suppressed those powers or chose not to use them (even though He had them)?

Why do you believe that he had to use his own power of his own accord?

Because that is what the Scriptures say.

Matthew 18:20, Matthew 28:9, Mark 2:7, Luke 7:44-50, John 1:29, John 2:19, John 5:21, John 14:6, Hebrews 1:3.

Also, it is by reason and logic that if God no longer has His own power anymore, than it begs the question, "Is He still God"? For is Superman still Superman if he no longer has his powers anymore? Surely not.

The scripture says that he did all things by the anointing of the Holy Spirit and power of the Father.

Yes it does. Jesus did things by both the Father and the Holy Spirit. This shows that He is one within the Godhead or the Trinity. But Jesus also used His own power, as well.

He didn’t do anything without his father’s permission that had to do with his will.

No argument here. Jesus said and did everything the Father told Him to do; And Jesus always did that which pleased the Father. Why? Because Jesus is God. Jesus is God not just in name, but Jesus is God in power. He has the power to back up that claim. It is not a hollow statement.

So answer the two questions I posed and maybe we can get better clarification.

Hopefully I have answered them to your satisfaction (even if you may not agree with me).

Thanks and recovery is doing pretty good. Jerry Kelso

You are most welcome and I am glad to here that you are doing "pretty good."

May you be strong in the power of the Lord's might today;
And please be well.

Sincerely,

~ Jason.

 

[jerry kelso]

Dear Jerry:

Well, I believe the KJV is correct in Philippians 2:7 when it says that Christ: "made himself of no reputation" and the Modern Translations are wrong for saying that Christ: "emptied himself"; In fact, the New Living Translation (NLT) erroneously says, "he gave up his divine privileges."

See, you may not realize this but there is an attack upon the Word of God. The devil is seeking to change the Word subtly to change the faith ever so slightly to fit his agenda in corrupting men.

Now, while I may read Modern Translations sometimes to update the language (from the 1600's English), etc. the King James is my final word of authority. I believe the Modern Translations subtly try to take out key points in important discussions within the Bible (Which can effect doctrine or Biblical truths). For example: In Romans 7 Paul talks from the Jew's perspective in keeping the Old Testament Law (Which leads to problems), and he gives us the climax or heart of his message as a solution in Romans 8:1. Now, certain modern translations have eliminated "who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." Eliminating this passage destroys the whole thrust of Paul's argument. Walking in the Spirit is the key to being in Christ Jesus. You eliminate that and you destroy Paul's argument. Also, 1 John 5:7 is the only verse in the Bible that is the clearest and most concise teaching on the Godhead (i.e. the Trinity).

Also, a simple side by side comparison of the KJV vs Modern Translations shows us that the devil tries to place his name in the Modern Versions. Have no idea what I am talking about? Click on the spoiler button to read my lengthy explanation with Scripture.

Spoiler

Many Bible versions say that it is the dragon who is standing on the sea shore in Revelation. This is just evil and wrong.

The following is a Modern Translation rendering for Revelation 13:1,

"The dragon stood on the shore of the sea. And I saw a beast coming out of the sea. It had ten horns and seven heads, with ten crowns on its horns, and on each head a blasphemous name." (Revelation 13:1).​

See, if you know anything about Bible language, standing on something means that you "own it"; And the devil wants to own you. In the King James, John is standing on the seashore. Yet in many Bible versions the dragon (i.e. the devil) is standing on the seashore.

Why is this a problem?

Let's look at...

Genesis 22:17

"That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the seashore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;"

Did you catch that? God says to Abraham that He will multiply his seed as the stars of the heaven and as the sand which is upon the seashore where he will then possess the gate of his enemies (i.e. the devil and his kingdom). The apostle John who wrote Revelation was Jewish and he was the promised seed of Genesis 22 standing on the seashore in Revelation 13. It was not the dragon or the devil standing on the seashore.

For certain Modern Versions eliminate the part of the passage in Revelation 13:1 that says that John is standing on the seashore (When he refers to himself as "I").

In fact, this is not the only time the devil has tried to place his name in the Bible in exchange for something that is supposed to be sacred or holy. We see the devil tries to place his name in Modern Translations in Daniel 3.

In Daniel 3, the Babylonian king says there is one like the "Son of God" in the fiery furnace along with Daniel's three friends. This is Jesus! Yet, in the Modern Translations it says the "son of the gods." In many false religions we can see how certain gods had mated with human females and created a hybrid. This is popular even in Greek mythology. So who saved Daniel's friends? Jesus or some hybrid like Hercules?

Nebuchadnezzar thought this was an angel of God (singular and not plural).

"Then Nebuchadnezzar spake, and said, Blessed be the God of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, who hath sent his angel, and delivered his servants that trusted in him, and have changed the king's word, and yielded their bodies, that they might not serve nor worship any god, except their own God." (Daniel 3:28).

This was not the "son of the gods (plural) (little "g")!!!
No way Hosea! I mean, "No way José!"
Nebuchadnezzar clearly was referencing the most high God.
The Bible says (even something similar in your Modern Version),

"Then Nebuchadnezzar came near to the mouth of the burning fiery furnace, and spake, and said, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, ye servants of the most high God, come forth, and come hither. Then Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, came forth of the midst of the fire." (Daniel 3:26).

Angels are called the: "sons of God" in Job.

The fourth person in the fire was still Jesus! The son of God. The Scriptures were still correct in their inspiration by God when they say, "and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God." While Nebuchadnezzar did not know it was the second person of the Godhead or the Trinity, the Lord our God who inspired Scripture surely would have glorified the name of the Son of God (Jesus) in this instance. For it was Jesus who was in the fire with Daniel's three friends!

Also, please check out this thread here, as well. It will help to explain this situation a little better, too.

Jesus is the Messenger of the Lord in the Old Testament.
(Please take note: I do not believe Jesus is an angelic being; I believe Jesus is the second person of the Godhead or the Trinity and that He is fully 100% God who took on the flesh of man).

In Isaiah 14:12, the devil's name "Lucifer" is replaced with "Day Star" or the "Morning Star."
Yes, I am aware that "morning stars" are angels in the book of Job.

But Modern Translations also say this is the Shining Star or the Son of the Dawn. Why?

Jesus says,
"I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star." (Revelation 22:16).

So Jesus is the BRIGHT and MORNING star!

Yet, the individual in Isaiah 14:12 in Modern Translations is called the shining (bright) and morning star or the Day Star, etc.

So the devil is trying to be like the most high here. He is taking a similar sounding title of Jesus in Isaiah 14:12.

For where is the bright and morning star up in the sky?
It is the sun.
That is why He is called the bright and morning star because the sun is bright and rises in the morning.

Also, Lucifer means "light bearer."
Scripture tells us this is what it means.

"And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light." (2 Corinthians 11:14).

The word "angel" also means "messenger." So 2 Corinthians 11:14 is saying that Satan is a light messenger or light bearer. In fact, when Satan is described with having all kinds of jewelry on him, it was symbolic of who he was. Certain gemstones refract light. They are not light themselves, but they merely reflect whatever light is in existence. Gemstones are like little light bearers. So how fitting the name "Lucifer" is for the devil. Yet, Modern Translations seek to give the devil a name that is similar to Jesus. This is wrong (of course).

Well, that depends. Do you believe Jesus did not have His powers temporarily? Or do you believe Jesus simply suppressed those powers or chose not to use them (even though He had them)?



Because that is what the Scriptures say.

Matthew 18:20, Matthew 28:9, Mark 2:7, Luke 7:44-50, John 1:29, John 2:19, John 5:21, John 14:6, Hebrews 1:3.

Also, it is by reason and logic that if God no longer has His own power anymore, than it begs the question, "Is He still God"? For is Superman still Superman if he no longer has his powers anymore? Surely not.



Yes it does. Jesus did things by both the Father and the Holy Spirit. This shows that He is one within the Godhead or the Trinity. But Jesus also used His own power, as well.



No argument here. Jesus said and did everything the Father told Him to do; And Jesus always did that which pleased the Father. Why? Because Jesus is God. Jesus is God not just in name, but Jesus is God in power. He has the power to back up that claim. It is not a hollow statement.



Hopefully I have answered them to your satisfaction (even if you may not agree with me).



You are most welcome and I am glad to here that you are doing "pretty good."

May you be strong in the power of the Lord's might today;
And please be well.

Sincerely,

~ Jason.

jason0047,

Sorry, I’ve had a lot going on interrupting me lately.

1. I understand translations watering down and that is why I never use them except maybe if they clarify something a little bit better and clearer than the KJV.

2. Phillipians 2:6-8 deals with the kenosis of Christ. The Greek word is Kenao meaning emptying for this phrase he made himself of no reputation.
He didn’t come in like the Savior in his birth Psalm 53.
He did eventually state in so many ways he was God or equal with God.
In the humiliation of Christ there are things he had to give up or not use.
He retained his Deity but he did divest something out of himself.
Just for the fact that he took on the nature of men and not angels was a humiliation. I have to go but I’ll be back. Jerry kelso

 

[Bible Highlighter]

jason0047,

Sorry, I’ve had a lot going on interrupting me lately.

1. I understand translations watering down and that is why I never use them except maybe if they clarify something a little bit better and clearer than the KJV.

2. Phillipians 2:6-8 deals with the kenosis of Christ. The Greek word is Kenao meaning emptying for this phrase he made himself of no reputation.
He didn’t come in like the Savior in his birth Psalm 53.
He did eventually state in so many ways he was God or equal with God.
In the humiliation of Christ there are things he had to give up or not use.
He retained his Deity but he did divest something out of himself.
Just for the fact that he took on the nature of men and not angels was a humiliation. I have to go but I’ll be back. Jerry kelso

Empty means to "pour out." If this was in reference to His divine powers as God, then that means Jesus poured out or emptied himself of His divine powers. But that sounds like He was giving those powers up as if He did not have them anymore. This to me is wrong because you cannot change who God is at His core. Again, I point to you the example of.... Is Superman still Superman if he gave up his powers (whereby he did not have them anymore)?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

so it therefore becomes impossible to ever sin again.

I don't remember what other poster was saying things like this, in error.
They claimed over and over again they never sin since they got saved.
It was a known and named heresy, but I can't remember which one.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I don't remember what other poster was saying things like this, in error.
They claimed over and over again they never sin since they got saved.
It was a known and named heresy, but I can't remember which one.

1 John 1:8 speaks against the false belief that sin does not exist anymore for a person if they do sin. Here is the verse (with my commentary in blue brackets):

"If we say that we have no sin [i.e. if we say we have no sin in the sense that sin does not exist or it is an illusion], we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us." (1 John 1:8).​

For if we say we have no sin (When we do sin) we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.

Anyways, the ignoring of the Moral Law is called Antinomianism.

Antinomianism - Wikipedia

Christian Scientists believe sin is an illusion and is not real. Most (and not all) Eternal Security Proponents believe sin exists partially. They believe sin exists physically, but they believe sin does not exist for them on a spiritual level if they sin because Jesus paid for all their sins, past, present, and future.

1 John 1:9 is the proper way of dealing with sin instead one of acting like they don't sin when they do sin (Which is condemned in 1 John 1:8). The result of confessing sin is forgiveness. For if we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

 

[Eloy Craft]

Hope is all I've found in scripture to give me confidence that my end is in heaven. Hope gives me confidence in my salvation in the measure I have faith. How can I believe otherwise when I see these scriptures? Also, if I knew my salvation was complete, what are these scriptures teaching me to hope for?
1 Thess 5-8
But let us who are of the day be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love, and as a helmet the hope of salvation.

Romans 5-2
through whom also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

Galatians 5-5
For we through the Spirit eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.