One saved always saved (Eternal Security)

[jerry kelso]

Irrelevant question.
Keep in Context.
Galations is the text, not Acts.





And? Your NEW point? Nothing new. I already addressed that.
"be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage."



And? Your NEW point? Already addressed that.
"A new KIND of circumcision"

IF you wanted to add, add something relevant, revealing the NEW KIND of circumcision.
It is a CIRCUMCISION OF THE HEART.
Rom 2; [29] circumcision is that of the heart






I will retract, oxymoron.
Additionally, I prefer using scriptural words. Conform, Obey, Agree, Commit, Submit.
Additionally, I do not believe God expects, but demands and knows we whom He has forgiven will OBEY.
Additionally, I believe God is Patient, to whom He has forgiven, to LEARN obedience, and has provided teachers to teach and remind.

Matt 5: [37] But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay:
Gal 6 [7] Be not deceived; God is not mocked:
God is patient. God is patient WHILE a forgiven man is learning obedience.

You appear to put upon a man, that the man is in control to "cooperate", as you say.
However, I BELIEVE, a man WHO submits to God, "gives" God "control" of his life.
I BELIEVE, God accepts the control, to use His POWER over a mans life.
I BELIEVE, God TEACHES the man, according to GODS working within the man HOW TO,
acceptably OBEY God, and that HOW God works within a man, IS according to Gods own Patience, and is not the works of the individual man.



Ignoring your mention of Christian - and rather focusing on "whosoever" is born of God,
is forgiven ALL of his sins. His old sinful body is DEAD. His new body is ALIVE in Christ's body. Dead body's do not sin. Body's in Christ, do not sin.

You are trying to claim; You have;
A forgiven dead body (crucified with Christ).
But yet still live "with Christ", in that old dead body.
That OLD DEAD BODY, "is DEAD", yet it still has it's natural life. (its' blood).
You "don't trust", what you can not see.
You 'don't see a dead physical body, void of it's blood', but that IS WHAT God sees.
That IS what God ACCOUNTS.
God has given you a NEW BODY, to live in, which ALSO you can not see.

1 Cor 12
[27] Now ye are the body of Christ.

Your old body IS DEAD.
The Sins of your old body are mortified, KILLED, DEAD, FORGIVEN, REMEMBERED NO MORE.
Your NEW body IS Christ's risen, pure, perfect body, without sin, that CAN NOT SIN.
You CAN NOT SEE Christ's BODY.
You CAN NOT SEE the BODY God has prepared for you.
You CAN NOT SEE, with your human eyes......AND WHY TRUSTING GOD, TRUSTING GODS WORD of TRUTH is necessary.

Pretending - YOUR old body IS alive IN CHRIST, and remaining the same, but try really hard to not sin - IS A HOAX.

Your OLD BODY, was DEAD to God, BEFORE you became forgiven.
Your OLD BODY, was DEAD to God, WHEN you became forgiven.
Your OLD BODY, is DEAD to God, AFTER your OLD DEAD BODY became forgiven.
Your OLD BODY, is NOW, forgiven, washed, sanctified, justified, covered, and STILL DEAD TO God.
Your OLD DEAD BODY, is NOW, "in waiting" to be REDEEMED and CHANGED, together with ALL OLD DEAD BODY'S, of the faithful, born of God.

Your NEW BODY, is CHRIST'S BODY.
Your NEW BODY, doesn't "hope" it doesn't sin.
Your NEW BODY, doesn't "try" not to sin.
Your NEW BODY, CAN NOT SIN!

OXYMORON -
pretending you STILL LIVE, in your old dead body of sin...
WHILE claiming YOU LIVE, in Christ's pure body.



God allows His Patience, for a man to learn how to serve Him.



Then you have;
1) not BEEN forgiven, not had your old body mortified, not become born of God, and do not live in Christ' pure body.
or
2) have not Trusted to know, or believe, Gods TRUTH.
and
3) do not teach, in His NAME, his truth and understanding.

God IS PATIENT, for an individual, to come to understanding.

God is NOT PATIENT, for an individual, to use HIS NAME, and teach, the UNDERSTANDING of the created, trumps the UNDERSTANDING of God.

Matt 7
[22] Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
[23] And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Who IS born of God, and IN Gods NAME; says God cleansed them with Christ's blood, forgave their sins, sanctified they body, covered their sin, gave them a new body of Christ to dwell in and they can not sin......but hey, all the Word of God was true..... BUT, what is more TRUE, is man's word, saying they DO continue to sin?

Who says; a man born of God, continues to sin?

According to scripture; a man the Lord does not know, and is a worker of iniquity.



A man born of God, CAN NOT SIN.



Agree, you sin and justify your sin.

However, Men born of God, do not claim to sin, BECAUSE they can not sin. Because they LIVE IN CHRIST and CHRIST LIVES IN THEM.



No. The "depending", is on being "BORN OF GOD".



That is too bad, for the "average Christian", to rely on "his mind".

Rom 8: [7] Because the carnal mind is enmity against God:



Your "Christians" have a dilemma.
Because a man WHO has been given SALVATION, is born of God, and NOTHING can cause a man "born of God", to "change masters", or otherwise DENY God is His master.

According to Scripture, Gods Word; a man born of God, can not sin.
According to you, a man born of God; claims he does continue to sin, and the mans own word justifies his sin.

According to Scripture, what you teach, is NOT the WILL of God, nor what you are doing by your teaching, is the WILL of God.

God Bless,
SBC

sbc,

1. Irrelevant? You are the one that said it wasn't in the scripture and you were wrong.
You should have said I'm sorry and I'll try to stay in context with Galatians.

2. I believe in context and have always said and done that.

3. You did address those entangled again in the yoke of bondage as being yoked with the unbeliever who believes in fleshly circumcision.
This is not what the yoke of bondage was. The yoke of bondage actually was the the law of Moses Acts 15:10.

4. We both agree physical circumcision has been replaced by spiritual circumcision.
The works of the law could never really save to begin with.
We also believe to do the law is to be a debtor to the law.

5. The Galatians had backslidden by false teaching. They were removed from grace.
If they stayed in that state of being justified by the law of Moses concerning circumcision they were not only fallen from grace but would stay fallen from grace.
V4 is prophetic for the righteousness by faith had already come by way of the cross but the winner of the race has to step across the finish line.
Verse 7 clearly says they were not obeying the truth.
Verse 16 talks about walking in the Spirit and you won't fulfill the things of the flesh.
It only stands to reason if you don't walk in the Spirit you won't fulfill the things of the flesh.
Paul goes on to mention the fleshy things and the fruits of the Spirit that are the character of Christians who have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
Paul contrasted these to show what was proper and logical and always thought that his flock would adhere to the truth.

6. Galatians 6:7-8 talk about sowing to the flesh is what we will reap and sowing to the Spirit shall reap life everlasting.
This verse shows that sow to the Spirit we will reap life everlasting. Verse 9 follows up with; let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap if we faint not.
Some would say that sowing and reaping to the flesh of a Christian is just works.
It is true that we will be judged on works of how we built on the church 1 Corinthians 3:12-15 and we will retain our salvation.
However, in Galatians it is more about personal sins of which those who do them will not inherit the Kingdom of God.
This harmonizes with Christians who defile their temple Godwill destroy them 1 Corinthians 3:16-17.

7. I believe if a Christian submits to God God will have control of his life. Even when Christian makes a mistake and sin doesn't mean God is not overall in control of their lives. He may not be in total control of their lives because of lack of surrender on the person's part but it doesn't mean they have gone completely awol on God.

8. The Physical bodies are tainted with sin and that is why we have to have new resurrected bodies 1 Corinthians 15:35-55.
Tainted with sin doesn't mean we are not saved etc.
I do not believe in a dual nature
that says the old man still lives in you and thus we are still sinners saved by grace.
There is a fight between the flesh and the Spirit that wrestles with the carnal mind and to be carnally mind is enemity against God, for it is not subject to the law of God Roman's 8:7.
This is spoken to believers and can happen to them.
Romans 8:10 is not talking about the physical body but the body of sin called the old man or the Old adamic nature of sin etc.
The temptations are from outside the body and comes to the brain. If the brain allows sin to stay we can say that the battle is within the heart. James 4:1-8. He is talking to Christians and tells them to submit, resist, draw nigh to God and cleanse your hands ye sinners and purify your hearts ye double minded.

9. A man born of God cannot sin?
James 2:1-2 says differently.
If you are referring to 1 John 3:9 you don't understand the context.
The condition is that his seed remains in him. The condition that his seed remains in him is abiding 1 John 2:24-25.
I used to work with people that belied this across the board. They believed there was no way for a Christian to possibly sin at all once they got saved.
Then a few months later one fell into a heavy sin and they excommunicated him. If you believe this way then there is a problem with James 2 that says if any man sins we have an advocate with the father who is the propitiation for our sins (Christians) and the world (non Christians).

10. Just as much as I believe one can live free from sin because the power of God is so powerful it is a possibility but not a probability. Why? All things that are possible with God and do not affect God affect men. These are things such as trials and tribulation etc. Romans 8:35.
If God is completely sovereign in all things as Calvinists say then why do Christians sin? Where did his sovereignty go? Is he only sovereign enough to get you across the finish line?
We have to through trials but does that involve heavy sins to learn a lesson. God hates sin and warns us to not partake of sins Ephesians 5:7 and says to abstain from all appearance of evil.
He said he'd give grace in time of need but does that mean we have to sin in order for him to have to be able to do his mediatorial work in the throne room?

11. I never said, nor do I believe that a Christian just decides to continue to sin or that he cannot help but sin.
Roman's 7 shows the Old Testament saints struggled in sin because the law of Moses was taken advantage by the law of sin and death and made them frailty of sin. Roman's 8 says the law of sin and death was replaced by the law of the Spirit.
''Tis doesn't mean that Christians can't get back into the same state of frailty if they desire to. It happens all the time.

12. A person that stays in the state of having a real bonafide relationship with Christ they should have no fear of losing their salvation.
Paul said he had a made up mind and was persuaded that nothing would ever separate him from the love of Christ.
This is why he did everything to mortify the members of his body
so he wouldn't be a castaway. He did this and trusted God and would only glory in the cross.
If you cultivate your relationship with Christ you will gravitate to the things of God and if not you will care for the things of the world.
Demas forsakes Paul and Christ because loved the things of the world. Fortunately, he came back to God sadly others don't such as Saul in the Old Testament.

13. I am not trying to make people afraid of losing salvation because they adamantly don't believe that and never will.
But to say their is no possibility that a Christian cannot lose their salvation at all is not scriptural.
OSAS in the phrase itself includes carnal minded people and to be carnally minded is death.
Every body is born into sin so will we say once a child of the devil always a child of the devil. Some will stay in that state and others will not because of choosing by free will choice to choose life.
The Bible says to choose life or death. Jerry kelso

 

[SBC]

sbc,

1. Irrelevant? You are the one that said it wasn't in the scripture and you were wrong.
You should have said I'm sorry and I'll try to stay in context with Galatians.

I was speaking of Scripture in Galatians. And no Christian is not mentioned in Galatians, nor the topic.

Did I really need to speak to you as if your were 5?
And say, now, now jerry, why are you bringing up Acts, when I clearly identified I was speaking of Galatians. Now, jerry, yes, yes, let me go off tract and appease you, and tell you yes, yes, Christian is mentioned in Acts. Yes, jerry, it sure is, Other men were calling the Disciples Christian's, because the Disciples followed after Christ and His teachings. And yes jerry other men follow after Christ and His teachings, and call themselves Christians. And other men call men Christians when they see them in a Christian Church hearing Christ's teachings. But the truth in Scripture speaks of any man who who believes in Jesus, becomes saved and born again and is freed from sin and sins no more, and doesn't mention Christian. There are men who are saved and born again that claim to be a Christian. There are men who attend Christian Churches, who call themselves a Christian who are not saved and born again.
So, jerry, in the context, I was speaking, which I identified as Galatians, Christian was not mentioned, and I said so. I was not speaking of Christians, nor did the text I quoted speak of Christians. It was you who introduced the comment of the word Christian, that had no bearing on the test I was speaking of. I simply thought, speaking to an adult, it was sufficient to say, stay in Context. Apparently not, because instead, of comprehending I was CLEARLY speaking of Galatians, you really wanted to deflect away from Galatians and talk about Acts and Christians, which was irrelevant.

2. I believe in context and have always said and done that.

Uh huh, sure ya do. And that is why, we are still talking about Acts and Christians

3. You did address those entangled again in the yoke of bondage as being yoked with the unbeliever who believes in fleshly circumcision.
This is not what the yoke of bondage was. The yoke of bondage actually was the the law of Moses Acts 15:10.

And once deflected to Christians in Acts, hey, now talk about more topics in in Acts!

Congratulations. Why not start a thread about the things in ACTS?

5. The Galatians had backslidden by false teaching. They were removed from grace.
If they stayed in that state of being justified by the law of Moses concerning circumcision they were not only fallen from grace but would stay fallen from grace.
V4 is prophetic for the righteousness by faith had already come by way of the cross but the winner of the race has to step across the finish line.
Verse 7 clearly says they were not obeying the truth.
Verse 16 talks about walking in the Spirit and you won't fulfill the things of the flesh.
It only stands to reason if you don't walk in the Spirit you won't fulfill the things of the flesh.
Paul goes on to mention the fleshy things and the fruits of the Spirit that are the character of Christians who have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
Paul contrasted these to show what was proper and logical and always thought that his flock would adhere to the truth.

6. Galatians 6:7-8 talk about sowing to the flesh is what we will reap and sowing to the Spirit shall reap life everlasting.
This verse shows that sow to the Spirit we will reap life everlasting. Verse 9 follows up with; let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap if we faint not.
Some would say that sowing and reaping to the flesh of a Christian is just works.
It is true that we will be judged on works of how we built on the church 1 Corinthians 3:12-15 and we will retain our salvation.
However, in Galatians it is more about personal sins of which those who do them will not inherit the Kingdom of God.
This harmonizes with Christians who defile their temple Godwill destroy them 1 Corinthians 3:16-17.

7. I believe if a Christian submits to God God will have control of his life. Even when Christian makes a mistake and sin doesn't mean God is not overall in control of their lives. He may not be in total control of their lives because of lack of surrender on the person's part but it doesn't mean they have gone completely awol on God.

See why Christian is NOT relevant? "IF" a Christian submits? Well what "IF" he doesn't? You are simply putting Christian in the same context, as believer and unbeliever. So why do put them in the Context of Scripture, when you do not delineate, saying a submitted Christian, blah, blah, blah....or an unsubmitted Christian, blah, blah, blah? Is one supposed to guess, which kind of Christian you are talking about?
Submitted or not? Because NOT submitted, IS NOT saved and born again!

So, what's the deal? Are there two KINDS of Christians? Those Saved and Born again. And those not saved and born Again?

8. The Physical bodies are tainted with sin and that is why we have to have new resurrected bodies 1 Corinthians 15:35-55.
Tainted with sin doesn't mean we are not saved etc.
I do not believe in a dual nature
that says the old man still lives in you and thus we are still sinners saved by grace.
There is a fight between the flesh and the Spirit that wrestles with the carnal mind and to be carnally mind is enemity against God, for it is not subject to the law of God Roman's 8:7.
This is spoken to believers and can happen to them.
Romans 8:10 is not talking about the physical body but the body of sin called the old man or the Old adamic nature of sin etc.
The temptations are from outside the body and comes to the brain. If the brain allows sin to stay we can say that the battle is within the heart. James 4:1-8. He is talking to Christians and tells them to submit, resist, draw nigh to God and cleanse your hands ye sinners and purify your hearts ye double minded.

Not talking about the physical body, but is talking about the body of sin....okie dokie.
And since it is not talking about the physical body, no need for that physical body to die, but it has a death sentence and does die.

9. A man born of God cannot sin?

Correct.

James 2:1-2 says differently.

No it does not.
James 2
[1] My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons.
[2] For if there come unto your assembly a man with a gold ring, in goodly apparel, and there come in also a poor man in vile raiment;

If you are referring to 1 John 3:9 you don't understand the context.

1 John 3:
[9] Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

The condition is that his seed remains in him. The condition that his seed remains in him is abiding 1 John 2:24-25.

No.
The condition applies to the WHO
The condition is BORN OF GOD.
The revelation is the WHO that meets the Condition of being BORN OF GOD,
CAN NOT SIN.
The REASON, (not a condition, but a REASON WHY, the WHO can not sin)
The reason...IS FOR and BECAUSE,
For...Gods Seen remains in the man.
Because...the man is born of God.

So no, I do not agree with your explanation, that only speaks of WHY, and not WHO, or WHAT.

The condition that his seed remains in him is abiding 1 John 2:24-25.

No.

1 John 2:
[24] Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.
[25] And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.

You trying to make 1 John 2: 24 say it is the seed that abides in a man is not true.

1 John 2: 23 & 24 is talking about knowledge one has heard, from the beginning, and to KEEP that knowledge in them,that they have heard.

1 John 3: 9 is talking about receiving the Seed of God.

Hearing knowledge and keeping that knowledge
and
receiving Gods Seed are NOT THE SAME THING!

I used to work with people that belied this across the board. They believed there was no way for a Christian to possibly sin at all once they got saved.

Then a few months later one fell into a heavy sin and they excommunicated him.

Perhaps the man will find a Church that teaches the truth, that God does not dwell in sin. And greater is he that is in you, than he in the world that condemns you, and turns you away.

If you believe this way

I don't believe, "THAT WAY". I believe a man who is born of God, sins no more.
And that poor man, going to a Church who is suppose to minister to the poor in spirit, turning their back on him. ugh ....What a shame to the Church.

then there is a problem with James 2 that says if any man sins we have an advocate with the father who is the propitiation for our sins (Christians) and the world (non Christians).

No. Not James 2. Yes. 1 John 2 Problem? No.

1John.2

1. [1] My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

How awesome! IF a man sins, He has an advocate. Gee how handy sin all men are born in sin and commit sin. How handy the advocate can FORGIVE all of a mans sin and FREE the man born in sin who has committed sin, that the man SINS no more!

Too bad that Church, didn't preach the truth to that poor man in your example!

10. Just as much as I believe one can live free from sin because the power of God is so powerful it is a possibility

According to Scripture, not only possible, but TRUE, according to Scripture.

but not a probability. Why?

um....because you do not Trust God?
um....because you won't believe it until you can see it, fer sure, fer sure?

All things that are possible with God

Amen.

and do not affect God affect men. These are things such as trials and tribulation etc. Romans 8:35.
If God is completely sovereign in all things as Calvinists say then why do Christians sin?

Who cares what men say? I don't.

Where did his sovereignty go? Is he only sovereign enough to get you across the finish line?
We have to through trials but does that involve heavy sins to learn a lesson. God hates sin and warns us to not partake of sins Ephesians 5:7 and says to abstain from all appearance of evil.
He said he'd give grace in time of need but does that mean we have to sin in order for him to have to be able to do his mediatorial work in the throne room?

Irrelevant psychobabble of men.

11. I never said, nor do I believe that a Christian just decides to continue to sin or that he cannot help but sin.
Roman's 7 shows the Old Testament saints struggled in sin because the law of Moses was taken advantage by the law of sin and death and made them frailty of sin. Roman's 8 says the law of sin and death was replaced by the law of the Spirit.
''Tis doesn't mean that Christians can't get back into the same state of frailty if they desire to. It happens all the time.

Irrelevant. Stick to the facts. If you claim to be born of God and claim you still sin...
that is the facts.

12. A person that stays in the state of having a real bonafide relationship with Christ they should have no fear of losing their salvation.

A man with the teeny weeny faith measured to the size of a mustard seed, submitted to God, IS SAVED and born again, whether or not, according to you, the man is having a "real bonafide relationship " with Christ.

Paul said he had a made up mind and was persuaded that nothing would ever separate him from the love of Christ.
This is why he did everything to mortify the members of his body
so he wouldn't be a castaway. He did this and trusted God and would only glory in the cross.
If you cultivate your relationship with Christ you will gravitate to the things of God and if not you will care for the things of the world.
Demas forsakes Paul and Christ because loved the things of the world. Fortunately, he came back to God sadly others don't such as Saul in the Old Testament.

That's nice. I have ZERO concern for Paul's salvation. I am content in believing He served the Lord well and IS SAVED.

Thanks for the tip - However I am very content in my relationship with the Lord.

13. I am not trying to make people afraid of losing salvation because they adamantly don't believe that and never will.
But to say their is no possibility that a Christian cannot lose their salvation at all is not scriptural.

Yipes! Of course. BECAUSE SCRIPTURE NEVER SAYS ANY SUCH THING!
Nor DID I! So why are you even once again talking about "CHRISTIANS" ?

You act like the entire Scripture addresses Christians specific! It doesn't! Scripture is for ALL Men. And ALL MEN who believe, who become forgiven, become saved and born again, sin no more, just like the Scripture teaches to whosoever of the ALL men. Not one verse, says, THEN you HAVE to plaster yourself with the title of Christian! Scripture says IN FACT, your title given you; is son of God; because you have been born of God!

So, IF you want to again make your statement....do it in proper context.

Is it your belief, there IS A POSSIBILITY, a man born of God, called a son of God;
CAN LOSE HIS SALVATION?

OSAS in the phrase itself includes carnal minded people and to be carnally minded is death.

LOL - the phrase "once saved always save", are words, not people, and not grey matter!

Every body is born into sin so will we say once a child of the devil always a child of the devil.

LOL - You say all kinds of crazy things, so, you saying that would not surprise me... wait, you just thought that, then said it. No surprise.

For me however, I was born from the natural seed of a man. And nah, he was not the devil. However, God informed me, a mans seed is not good and if I wanted to be born of a good Seed, that I would, IF, I believe in Him. (Toddler Bible version).

Some will stay in that state and others will not because of choosing by free will choice to choose life.
The Bible says to choose life or death. Jerry kelso

Okay.

God Bless,
SBC

 

[jerry kelso]

I was speaking of Scripture in Galatians. And no Christian is not mentioned in Galatians, nor the topic.

Did I really need to speak to you as if your were 5?
And say, now, now jerry, why are you bringing up Acts, when I clearly identified I was speaking of Galatians. Now, jerry, yes, yes, let me go off tract and appease you, and tell you yes, yes, Christian is mentioned in Acts. Yes, jerry, it sure is, Other men were calling the Disciples Christian's, because the Disciples followed after Christ and His teachings. And yes jerry other men follow after Christ and His teachings, and call themselves Christians. And other men call men Christians when they see them in a Christian Church hearing Christ's teachings. But the truth in Scripture speaks of any man who who believes in Jesus, becomes saved and born again and is freed from sin and sins no more, and doesn't mention Christian. There are men who are saved and born again that claim to be a Christian. There are men who attend Christian Churches, who call themselves a Christian who are not saved and born again.
So, jerry, in the context, I was speaking, which I identified as Galatians, Christian was not mentioned, and I said so. I was not speaking of Christians, nor did the text I quoted speak of Christians. It was you who introduced the comment of the word Christian, that had no bearing on the test I was speaking of. I simply thought, speaking to an adult, it was sufficient to say, stay in Context. Apparently not, because instead, of comprehending I was CLEARLY speaking of Galatians, you really wanted to deflect away from Galatians and talk about Acts and Christians, which was irrelevant.



Uh huh, sure ya do. And that is why, we are still talking about Acts and Christians



And once deflected to Christians in Acts, hey, now talk about more topics in in Acts!

Congratulations. Why not start a thread about the things in ACTS?







See why Christian is NOT relevant? "IF" a Christian submits? Well what "IF" he doesn't? You are simply putting Christian in the same context, as believer and unbeliever. So why do put them in the Context of Scripture, when you do not delineate, saying a submitted Christian, blah, blah, blah....or an unsubmitted Christian, blah, blah, blah? Is one supposed to guess, which kind of Christian you are talking about?
Submitted or not? Because NOT submitted, IS NOT saved and born again!


So, what's the deal? Are there two KINDS of Christians? Those Saved and Born again. And those not saved and born Again?




Not talking about the physical body, but is talking about the body of sin....okie dokie.
And since it is not talking about the physical body, no need for that physical body to die, but it has a death sentence and does die.



Correct.



No it does not.
James 2
[1] My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons.
[2] For if there come unto your assembly a man with a gold ring, in goodly apparel, and there come in also a poor man in vile raiment;



1 John 3:
[9] Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.



No.
The condition applies to the WHO
The condition is BORN OF GOD.
The revelation is the WHO that meets the Condition of being BORN OF GOD,
CAN NOT SIN.
The REASON, (not a condition, but a REASON WHY, the WHO can not sin)
The reason...IS FOR and BECAUSE,
For...Gods Seen remains in the man.
Because...the man is born of God.

So no, I do not agree with your explanation, that only speaks of WHY, and not WHO, or WHAT.



No.

1 John 2:
[24] Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.
[25] And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.

You trying to make 1 John 2: 24 say it is the seed that abides in a man is not true.

1 John 2: 23 & 24 is talking about knowledge one has heard, from the beginning, and to KEEP that knowledge in them,that they have heard.

1 John 3: 9 is talking about receiving the Seed of God.

Hearing knowledge and keeping that knowledge
and
receiving Gods Seed are NOT THE SAME THING!





Perhaps the man will find a Church that teaches the truth, that God does not dwell in sin. And greater is he that is in you, than he in the world that condemns you, and turns you away.



I don't believe, "THAT WAY". I believe a man who is born of God, sins no more.
And that poor man, going to a Church who is suppose to minister to the poor in spirit, turning their back on him. ugh ....What a shame to the Church.



No. Not James 2. Yes. 1 John 2 Problem? No.

1John.2

1. [1] My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

How awesome! IF a man sins, He has an advocate. Gee how handy sin all men are born in sin and commit sin. How handy the advocate can FORGIVE all of a mans sin and FREE the man born in sin who has committed sin, that the man SINS no more!

Too bad that Church, didn't preach the truth to that poor man in your example!



According to Scripture, not only possible, but TRUE, according to Scripture.



um....because you do not Trust God?
um....because you won't believe it until you can see it, fer sure, fer sure?




Amen.



Who cares what men say? I don't.



Irrelevant psychobabble of men.



Irrelevant. Stick to the facts. If you claim to be born of God and claim you still sin...
that is the facts.



A man with the teeny weeny faith measured to the size of a mustard seed, submitted to God, IS SAVED and born again, whether or not, according to you, the man is having a "real bonafide relationship " with Christ.



That's nice. I have ZERO concern for Paul's salvation. I am content in believing He served the Lord well and IS SAVED.

Thanks for the tip - However I am very content in my relationship with the Lord.



Yipes! Of course. BECAUSE SCRIPTURE NEVER SAYS ANY SUCH THING!
Nor DID I! So why are you even once again talking about "CHRISTIANS" ?

You act like the entire Scripture addresses Christians specific! It doesn't! Scripture is for ALL Men. And ALL MEN who believe, who become forgiven, become saved and born again, sin no more, just like the Scripture teaches to whosoever of the ALL men. Not one verse, says, THEN you HAVE to plaster yourself with the title of Christian! Scripture says IN FACT, your title given you; is son of God; because you have been born of God!

So, IF you want to again make your statement....do it in proper context.

Is it your belief, there IS A POSSIBILITY, a man born of God, called a son of God;
CAN LOSE HIS SALVATION?



LOL - the phrase "once saved always save", are words, not people, and not grey matter!



LOL - You say all kinds of crazy things, so, you saying that would not surprise me... wait, you just thought that, then said it. No surprise.

For me however, I was born from the natural seed of a man. And nah, he was not the devil. However, God informed me, a mans seed is not good and if I wanted to be born of a good Seed, that I would, IF, I believe in Him. (Toddler Bible version).



Okay.

God Bless,
SBC

sbc,

1. I apologize I missed what you said about the disciples not calling themselves Christians. And I apologize for putting James down when I meant 1 John 2:1-2. I was a little too tired and got tunnel vision. That's not like me to do that.
I understand the oxymoron of a Christian sinning because of the meaning Christ like. I have said you can't be a sinner and a saint at the same time.
This deals more with the real heart not because we are perfect.

2. 1 John 5:17-18 says all unrighteousness is sin and there is a sin not unto death.
This shows that believers can sin and not sin the sin of apostasy which would be the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.
We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keeps himself and that wicked one toucheth him not.
This is talking about not continuing sin.
1 John 1:1-2; my little children (believers) write I unto you that YE SIN NOT.
And if any man sin not, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: (only Christians have an advocate).
And he is the propitiation for our sins (believers) and not for ours only (believers) but also for the sins of the whole world (unbelievers).
Believers in the Old Testament from Moses to David and Samson and the New Testament like Ananias and Sapphira and Demas and Peter etc. committed sins, some worse than others.
The scriptures have to reconcile together.

3. The way you have explained your position is called sinless perfection to the nth degree.
So are you really saying that you believe that you have no possibility to commit a sin in any way all your life?
Are you saying that you never miss the mark?
By your tone and sarcastic remarks I could say you don't display much Christian love as in 1 Corinthians 13 and and you have missed the mark or sinned. Or is it righteous anger that you show?

4. The truth is that God is no respect of persons and the Bible shows that believers can commit sin and receive forgiveness when they repent. Read the Lord's Prayer.
At the same time the Jews who were God's elect were disobeying God and God said if they didn't Repent he would not remember their righteousness no more and they would die. But if the wicked repented they would be saved and Israel thought God was unfair. God said he was not.
Israel thought they were in the club of OSAS and found out they were wrong. Read Ezekiel 18.

5. I believe one can live free from sin but I wouldn't say that I have no possibility to commit a sin.
Believers can commit sin but they don't practice sin or continue to sin.
So Christians can sin and repent and receive forgiveness for sins 1John 1:1-2. This is why 1 John 3:9 has to have a different meaning so it doesn't conflict.
One scripture can't say a believer can sin and another scripture say you can't and be in harmony with each other. That is a paradox that has to be solved by context.

6. According to the Ezekiel passages a man right with God can commit sin and lose his salvation if he doesn't repent.
So do you believe you have never sinned since you have been saved? Do you believe that you don't sin now and never will?
I ask this because your whole basis for UES seems to be the sinless perfection doctrine to the extreme. Let me know. Jerry kelso

 

[PamCAID]

Once we see that eternal security is not the same thing as salvation, we can then look into the exact reason for eternal security, and more importantly, who it applies to! I made churchageisdifferent.com for this purpose. Maybe you'd be interested.

 

[friend of]

Eternal security is not dependent on works

 

[Kenny'sID]

Are works and obedience the same thing?

 

[friend of]

I'm fatppl so not be3d love

 

[Danthemailman]

"Born again" refers to water baptism. Read the Scripture that uses the term.

Have you considered living water in John 3:5? Jesus said, "born of water and the Spirit" He did not say born of baptism and the Spirit. To automatically read baptism into this verse simply because it mentions "water" is unwarranted. Scripture interprets itself.

Notice in John 7:38-39, "He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of LIVING WATER. But this He spoke concerning the SPIRIT. *Did you see that? The Holy Spirit is the source of living water and agent of spiritual cleansing, "washing of regeneration." If "water" is arbitrarily defined as baptism, then we could just as justifiably say, "Out of his heart will flow rivers of living baptism" in John 7:38. If this sounds ridiculous, it is no more so than the idea that water baptism is the source or the means of becoming born again.

In John 4:10, Jesus said, "If you knew the gift of God, and who it is who says to you, 'Give Me a drink,'you would have asked Him, and He would have given you living water." In John 4:14, Jesus said, "but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will never thirst. But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into everlasting life.

*Jesus connects this living water here with everlasting life. *Living water is not water baptism. In 1 Corinthians 12:13, we also read - ..drink into one Spirit.

 

[TerryWoodenpic]

What I find hard to believe. is that any Christian would be concerned at all about their state of grace and whether they are saved or not. I have never heard an Anglican declare that they are Saved, Though I suppose some may hope so. and many do believe in Universal Salvation, which is a very different concept.
Some of the more evangelical members certainly follow a few of the American beliefs and practices around "Salvation".
However I have never heard "eternal security" or "once save always saved" taught at all. It is certainly not generally believed. Nor is being "Born again" part of Anglican normal teaching.

 

[Danthemailman]

Salvation is not probation.
Eternal life is not temporary life.
Jesus is the door. He is not a revolving door.

 

[jerry kelso]

Salvation is not probation.
Eternal life is not temporary life.
Jesus is the door. He is not a revolving door.

danthe mailman,

1. Salvation is a soul abiding in grace 1 John 2:23-24
Eternal life is winning the race 1 Corinthians 9:24
Jesus is the door John 10:9
The entrance leading to forevermore John 10:9; 1 John 2:23-24; 1 Corinthians 9:24.

1. Jesus is the door John 10:9

2. Jesus is the only way John 14:6

3. Jesus is the Savior to continue and abide in eternal life to receive the reward.

4. Run the race to obtain 1 Corinthians 9:24 Jerry kelso

 

[Danthemailman]

danthe mailman,

1. Salvation is a soul abiding in grace 1 John 2:23-24

Descriptive of believers.

Eternal life is winning the race 1 Corinthians 9:24

Is eternal life a prize or a gift? (Romans 6:23).

Jesus is the door John 10:9
The entrance leading to forevermore John 10:9; 1 John 2:23-24; 1 Corinthians 9:24.

Jesus is the door. He who believes in Him is not condemned, but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God (John 3:18; 1 John 5:13). Eternal life is not earned by winning a gold medal in an Olympic race.

1. Jesus is the door John 10:9

2. Jesus is the only way John 14:6

Amen! (John 3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26).

3. Jesus is the Savior to continue and abide in eternal life to receive the reward.

Salvation is a gift that we receive through faith and is not a reward that we work for and earn (Ephesians 2:8,9; 1 Corinthians 3:13-15).

To abide (Greek word "meno") simply means:
to sojourn, tarry
not to depart
to continue to be present
to be held, kept, continually

We must not confuse DESCRIPTIVE passages of Scripture with PRESCRIPTIVE passages of Scripture.

4. Run the race to obtain 1 Corinthians 9:24 Jerry kelso

To obtain the prize, not the free gift of eternal life. Prize (brabeion) - the prize awarded to a victor, the reward (recognition) that follows triumph. That doesn't sound like a free gift (Romans 6:23; Ephesians 2:8).

In 1 Corinthians 9:24, Paul said - Do you not know that those who run in a race all run, but only one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may obtain it. That doesn't sound like the gift of eternal life. That sounds like an Olympic race where all run, but only one receives the gold medal. Would this mean that everyone else is disqualified from the race? Silver medal, bronze medal, no medal but finished the race, all disqualified from the race?

 

[jerry kelso]

Descriptive of believers.

Is eternal life a prize or a gift? (Romans 6:23).


Jesus is the door. He who believes in Him is not condemned, but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God (John 3:18; 1 John 5:13). Eternal life is not earned by winning a gold medal in an Olympic race.

Amen! (John 3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26).

Salvation is a gift that we receive through faith and is not a reward that we work for and earn (Ephesians 2:8,9; 1 Corinthians 3:13-15).

To abide (Greek word "meno") simply means:
to sojourn, tarry
not to depart
to continue to be present
to be held, kept, continually

We must not confuse DESCRIPTIVE passages of Scripture with PRESCRIPTIVE passages of Scripture.

To obtain the prize, not the free gift of eternal life. Prize (brabeion) - the prize awarded to a victor, the reward (recognition) that follows triumph. That doesn't sound like a free gift (Romans 6:23; Ephesians 2:8).

In 1 Corinthians 9:24, Paul said - Do you not know that those who run in a race all run, but only one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may obtain it. That doesn't sound like the gift of eternal life. That sounds like an Olympic race where all run, but only one receives the gold medal. Would this mean that everyone else is disqualified from the race? Silver medal, bronze medal, no medal but finished the race, all disqualified from the race?

danthemailman,

1. Eternal life is an eternal substance.
Eternal possession is not guaranteed if a believer doesn’t abide continually till our probationary period is over 1 John 2:23-24.
Eternal life is a gift but it can be rejected before one believes or after they believe.
Luke 15:8-9 shows the woman with the lost coin and finds it and rejoices in finding it. Could she not lose her coin again? Could not a person get lost in the woods and be found again and repeat the same thing?
The prodigal son ran away and sinned. Could he not do the same thing again?
Salvation is for sinners. In this passage the rest were saved.
However, in James 5:19-20 talks to believers and says if they err from the err from the truth let them know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way, shall save a soul from death and shall hide a multitude of sin.
This is talking about backsliders.
God wants cooperation and he will not make you do anything if you truly don’t want to, otherwise we are robots and it is not true love.

2. Salvation is not by works but by grace Romans 4:1-5. That is justification by grace.
Justification by Works is the fruit of obedience and faith for without works faith is dead.
We have to cooperate with God by obedience of our freewill.
Obedience is technically a work by action.
The Bible says choose you this day whom you will serve.
The works of merit is what is spoken of in Justification by grace.
God demands obedience but what saves you is his stamp of approval that you are saved because he knows your heart. Ask and you shall receive.
After salvation obedience still required. This is about allegiance to the same master Jesus Christ. This has nothing to do with the believers works of reward and judgement that you build on the foundation of the church 1 Corinthians 3:1-15.
Verse 16-17 shows that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit and if you defile it he will destroy the unfaithful.
So it is a false accusation that CES believes in works of merit to lose ones salvation.

6. Romans 6:23 is true if one doesn’t change masters which Paul talks about is possible in verse 16.

7. Paul is not talking about medals of Gold, silver and bronze. Crossing the finish line is about being faithful to God for our probation period in this life.
As far as God is concerned all are Gold medalists because they finished the race by being faithful not because one came first, then second or third. You cannot gauge that way because everyone has a different day of dying.
Jesus said, whoever puts his hand to the ploughing and looks back is fit for the kingdom

8. Abiding is to continually be present. If one ceases to be present because he changed masters Roman’s 6:16 he is not abiding in Christ for salvation.
Ezekiel 18 shows that the Jews though they were in the club for they were God’s chosen people.
God said no because sin is sin and if they didn’t repent he wouldn’t remember their righteousness anymore. They would die in a heir iniquity v26.
God said he would save the wicked if they asked for forgiveness. That is why they thought God was unequal because the Gentiles had no covenant.
God is no respect of persons whether back then or now.

9. Luke 9:62: And Jesus said unto him, No man having put his hand to the plow, and looking back is fit for the kingdom of God.
This was in reference to salvation Luke 17:20-21 which was the condition to make entrance in the Physical Kingdom Of Heaven reign on earth.
God is no respect or of persons today.

10. Losing salvation is about apostasy not because one may commit a sin unless it is a death penalty sin that has lack of repentance.
Also, 1 John 5:16 talks about a sin unto death.
This is speaking to believers.

11. I believe there is Eternal Security Of the Believer because I am like the apostle Paul who had a made up mind that nothing would separate us from the love of God.
The devil is out their to steal, kill and destroy the believer not the unbeliever for he already has them.
The scripture shows that God will keep us if we cooperate with him but if we turn our backs on him he will cast us out.
Paul said he would be a castaway if he didn’t mortify the members of his body.
We have the free will to accept or reject.
Apostasy for a Christian is a possibility but not a probability for most. Jerry Kelso

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Descriptive of believers.

Well, believers are faithful (they obey his commandments) as a part of knowing God. See 1 John 2:3-4. 1 John 5:12 says he that has the Son has life and he that does not have the Son does not have life. So one has to have the Son in order to have eternal life. No Son and no eternal life or salvation. In addition, 1 John 1:7 says if we walk in the light as he is in the light the blood of Jesus cleanses us from all sin. So one has to walk in the light to have the blood of Jesus cleanse them (i.e. to be saved).

Is eternal life a prize or a gift? (Romans 6:23).

Life teaches us that all good gifts come with responsibilities and if they are not taken care of, they can be lost or destroyed. The Bible also teaches that one can forfeit or lose God's gift by abiding in unrepentant serious sin.

For the Bible teaches that serious sin is separation from GOD,

[God said to Adam,]
"But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die." (Genesis 2:17).

[Eve said to the serpent,]
"But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die. (Genesis 3:3).

And the serpent said unto the woman,
"Ye shall not surely die." (Genesis 3:4).

"...she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat. And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked..." (Genesis 3:6-7).

"Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned." (Romans 5:12).

"For the wages of sin is death..." (Romans 6:23).

"But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear." (Isaiah 59:2).

“...whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.”
(Matthew 5:22).

28 “But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.” (Matthew 5:28-30).

“But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.” (Matthew 6:15).

“Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.” (Matthew 7:21)

Important Note: If you were to look at 1 Thessalonians 4:3 you would learn that the will of God (i.e. the Father) is to be holy or it is our sanctification; And Hebrews 12:14 says, without holiness no man shall see the Lord.

“22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’
23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’” (Matthew 7:22-23 ESV).

“26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.”
(Matthew 7:26-27).

“15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.” (Matthew 7:15-20).

"For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins." (Hebrews 10:26).

"he that commits sin is of the devil." (1 John 3:8).

"everyone who does evil hates the light." (John 3:20).

"Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee." (Acts of the Apostles 8:22).

6 "If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth.
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin." (1 John 1:6-7).

"He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him." (1 John 2:4).

"Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him." (1 John 3:15).

"He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now." (1 John 2:9).

"In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother." (1 John 3:10).

41 "The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will gather out of his kingdom all causes of sin and all law-breakers,
42 and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
43 Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear." (Matthew 13:41-43 ESV).

"They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate." (Titus 1:16).

3 "If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;
4 He is proud, knowing nothing,..." (1 Timothy 6:3-4).

"...God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble."
(James 4:6).

21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off." (Romans 11:21-22).

16 "There is a sin unto death..."
17 "...and there is a sin not unto death." (1 John 5:16-17).

"But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death." (Revelation 21:8).

19 "Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God." (Galatians 5:19-21).

5 "Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:
6 For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:
7 In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them." (Colossians 3:5-7).

Jesus is the door. He who believes in Him is not condemned, but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God (John 3:18; 1 John 5:13).

Belief or faith is more than a mental acknowledgment. Faith is shown true by one's works. For James says, "Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works." (James 2:18).

So James says he will show you his faith by his works. This means belief or faith is not minus good works. One's faith is shown true by one's works.

"Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone." (James 2:17).

How can a dead faith access the saving grace of GOD?

Surely it cannot.

Eternal life is not earned by winning a gold medal in an Olympic race.

Amen! (John 3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26).

Salvation is a gift that we receive through faith and is not a reward that we work for and earn (Ephesians 2:8,9; 1 Corinthians 3:13-15).

Analogy here. You earn a paycheck. You work to get paid.
With God's grace (that is a gift) we do not work to obtain God's grace, but we work to be responsible with the free gift we received. There is a difference between receiving a paycheck every week for working hours for dollars vs. receiving a large sum of money (as a gift) and being responsible with it. One can run out of money quick if they are not careful with even having a lot of money. If they invest it and are wise in their spending they are being responsible with the gift they were given. But one has to work to some extent to protect their gift. This is not the same as trading hours for dollars.

To abide (Greek word "meno") simply means:
to sojourn, tarry
not to depart
to continue to be present
to be held, kept, continually

We must not confuse DESCRIPTIVE passages of Scripture with PRESCRIPTIVE passages of Scripture.

To obtain the prize, not the free gift of eternal life. Prize (brabeion) - the prize awarded to a victor, the reward (recognition) that follows triumph. That doesn't sound like a free gift (Romans 6:23; Ephesians 2:8).

In 1 Corinthians 9:24, Paul said - Do you not know that those who run in a race all run, but only one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may obtain it. That doesn't sound like the gift of eternal life. That sounds like an Olympic race where all run, but only one receives the gold medal. Would this mean that everyone else is disqualified from the race? Silver medal, bronze medal, no medal but finished the race, all disqualified from the race?

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 says,

"Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God."

Paul says in 1 Corinthians 9:27,

"But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway."

He says he will be a cast away if he does not keep his body in subjection.
This makes no sense in the OSAS universe. Cast away from what? Where does the Bible talk about being cast away and yet still saved?

The Bible speaks of those in the Kingdom who will be cast into outer darkness (See Matthew 8:12).

Anyways, the real problem with saying God forever saves a person is that it can lead a person to treat God's grace a license to sin on some level. For if an OSAS preacher tells an audience who are believers they are forever saved and he does not add any further details, many can think he is teaching a license to sin.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Eternal life is an eternal substance.

I believe eternal life is not a substance but eternal life is a person named Jesus Christ (1 John 5:12) (John 6:35) (John 14:6).

 

[jerry kelso]

I believe eternal life is not a substance but eternal life is a person named Jesus Christ (1 John 5:12) (John 6:35) (John 14:6).

jason0047,

1. Well I don’t disagree with you on that and he is the God-man substance that is eternal. 1 John 1:1-2.
I wasn’t trying to make Christ impersonal.
The point of possession being separate and can be lost if one changes masters Roman’s 6:16 still is reality. Jerry Kelso

 

[Bible Highlighter]

jason0047,

1. Well I don’t disagree with you on that and he is the God-man substance that is eternal. 1 John 1:1-2.
I wasn’t trying to make Christ impersonal.
The point of possession being separate and can be lost if one changes masters Roman’s 6:16 still is reality. Jerry Kelso

I do not see Christ as a substance but as a person. While Christ exists within our universe physically as spirit, flesh, and blood, I would not label him as a substance. Substances are the things that make up something that does not denote a person generally. I do not believe we draw power like substance from Christ that extends outside of His person, but we simply abide in Christ who is our salvation. For me: To say that Christ is a substance is leaning into the realm of those who say that there are many paths to the divine and that Christ is just one of those many paths. That we can all tap into the divine in Christ and or be like Him and be a god. But this is not the case. Christ is exclusively His own person and He is GOD (Who is the second person of the Trinity or Godhead - 1 John 5:7). Christ is the one and only way or path to salvation (John 14:6) (1 Timothy 2:5). Christ talked with others and He even wept. This is a person and not a substance. A substance would be a mindless chemical, something like water, or nitrogen, etc.

 

[jerry kelso]

I do not see Christ as a substance but as a person. While Christ exists within our universe physically as spirit, flesh, and blood, I would not label him as a substance. Substances are the things that make up something that does not denote a person generally. I do not believe we draw power like substance from Christ that extends outside of His person, but we simply abide in Christ who is our salvation. For me: To say that Christ is a substance is leaning into the realm of those who say that there are many paths to the divine and that Christ is just one of those many paths. That we can all tap into the divine in Christ and or be like Him and be a god. But this is not the case. Christ is exclusively His own person and He is GOD (Who is the second person of the Trinity or Godhead - 1 John 5:7). Christ is the one and only way or path to salvation (John 14:6) (1 Timothy 2:5). Christ talked with others and He even wept. This is a person and not a substance. A substance would be a mindless chemical, something like water, or nitrogen, etc.

jasonoo47,

I was saying just because of physical substance. I knew I should have made that clearer, but your point is well taken.
I would never equate Jesus as a mindless chemical. For goodness sake he has a body, soul and spirit. That is not mindless. Jerry Kelso

 

[Bible Highlighter]

jasonoo47,

I was saying just because of physical substance. I knew I should have made that clearer, but your point is well taken. I would never equate Jesus as a mindless chemical. For goodness sake he has a body, soul and spirit. That is not mindless. Jerry Kelso

I am glad you do not think that Christ is a substance. I am just making sure you use the right words when you communicate to others, my brother. I would not want them to get the wrong idea.

May God bless you greatly this fine evening.

 

[sdowney717]

Everlasting life, eternal life is something to which we are appointed. All those so appointed will then believe! So the appointment comes first, then the believing. Those who refuse to believe have not been appointed - chosen to become believers. And they judge their own selves as unworthy of everlasting life.

Acts 13
46 Then Paul and Barnabas grew bold and said, “It was necessary that the word of God should be spoken to you first; but since you reject it, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, behold, we turn to the Gentiles. 47 For so the Lord has commanded us:

‘I have set you as a light to the Gentiles,
That you should be for salvation to the ends of the earth.’”

48 Now when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and glorified the word of the Lord. And as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.

Jesus saves to the utmost, which means He DOES save ALL His people from their sin since HE is eternally alive and He is the source of our life and He cannot deny Himself.

Hebrews 7:24-25New King James Version (NKJV)
24 But He, because He continues forever, has an unchangeable priesthood. 25 Therefore He is also able to save to the uttermost those who come to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them.