One Reason to Reject Amill Doctrine

[Timtofly]

Whilst the unregenerate Jews continued to zealously celebrate their Sabbath on a Saturday (their 7th day), early Christians considered their Sabbath day Sunday as the 8th, because it embodied the idea of new beginnings revealed in the supernatural resurrection of Christ. But the mainly Jewish early Church, in its infant state, saw Sunday starting at sun-down on the Roman Saturday. Therefore, uniquely, the 7th Roman day also saw the appearance of the 8th Jewish day.

The introduction of Sunday-keeping was a notable mark of differentiation between Christianity and Judaism. While most orthodox Christians did not observe the Sabbath in the Jewish sense, many Jewish believers did attend the synagogue on the Jewish Sabbath because it was the only way many had of accessing the Old Testament Scriptures. In the synagogue, they had the benefit of hearing the public reading of the inspired pages. As a result, Christian gatherings often took place on a Saturday evening after the Jewish Sabbath had ended. This replaced the traditional Havdallah service, a Jewish religious ceremony that marks the symbolic end of Sabbath and the ushering in of a new week.

It was here that they would discuss what they had earlier heard in the synagogue, give a Christian sense of the inspired text and examine the messianic significance of these readings. As the Gospel spread to the major Christian communities in Antioch, Alexandria, Rome, Asia Minor and throughout the Roman Empire this custom was widely observed. These post-Sabbath meetings became the norm.

So, having Church on Saturday evening after sun-set constituted Sunday worship from a Jewish perspective or Saturday worship within the regular Roman system. It was easy for Christians to view this overlap as both the 7th and the 8th day of the week, and therefore fit their theological paradigm.

The early Church were obviously treated with everything from suspicious and to open aggression and persecution by existing well-established Christ-rejecting Judaism.

The Jewish antagonism toward the Church created strong anti-Judaic feelings amongst the patriarchs. The early writers went out of their way to distance themselves from apostate Judaism and used Sunday observance as an effective tool of distinction and separation between the two. Because Sunday worship was a major bone of contention, biblical grounds were required and used to justify their new and distinct practices.

As Christians got more access to the Old Testament Scriptures and were blessed with better access to the New Testament revelation they became less dependent upon the synagogue for their scriptural education. The process of separation became inevitable for both sides and led to the majority of the Christians abandoning the Jewish Sabbath and adopting Sunday as their unique day of worship.

Sounds like you can set out the 1000 years and enjoy the beginning of the last 1000 years, just like they did.


The whole point is for the whole time of creation, which no one seems to agree with. It is not just 2 or 3 generations here and there.

Have you done that historical research showing the Romans had 6 work days and 2 Market days every single week?

 

[Timtofly]

... that is if we are on the subject of the ECFs. Actual quotes (which I gave) trumps Dispy opinion.

So you know the minds of the ancients? Their written work seems to not be specific enough to overcome some people's bias. Even when they write that there would be 1,000 years after the Second Coming, you still call them amil.

 

[Timtofly]

All i see is opinions. Where does it say that in Scripture?

Where does it say it does? I see no Scripture pointing out your opinion. If you showed your opinion of the Scripture in the topic, you may have a point.

 

[Just The Facts]

Hi Jeff

Hi JTF
Thats right. How can they be 1000 years apart? Once the sheep are separated at his coming the goats are left on their own right?. Why delay the inevitable. Clearly the Lord comes to deal with them both when he comes again , as 2Thess 1 scripture I posted clearly states.

That does not line up with scripture

[4] Then I saw thrones, and seated on them were those to whom judgment was committed. Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony to Jesus and for the word of God, and who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life, and reigned with Christ a thousand years.[5] The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended. This is the first resurrection. [6] Blessed and holy is he who shares in the first resurrection! Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and they shall reign with him a thousand years.

Jeff I do not want what I am about to say offend you but I feel I must say it. Amills do this very often They use Paul to override Jesus words. You have it backwards you have to use Jesus words and understand Paul's words in light of Jesus' words not vise versa.

The reward the inheritance is described in Psalms


The princess is decked in her chamber with gold-woven robes;[14] in many-colored robes she is led to the king, with her virgin companions, her escort, in her train. [15] With joy and gladness they are led along as they enter the palace of the king. [16] Instead of your fathers shall be your sons; you will make them princes in all the earth. [17] I will cause your name to be celebrated in all generations; therefore the peoples will praise you for ever and ever.

Only Guest are invited to the wedding the rest are not. Being invited to the wedding feast is the first part of the inheritance.

Now look at Paul's words in this light There Paul is talking about the end of the day when they are resurrected to the LOF. The First Resurrection is the beginning of the Day of the Lord.

The Day of the Lord is a thousand years.

[8] But do not ignore this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Listen to Peter DO NOT ignore the facts

 

[Jamdoc]

Describe for us how Christ's perfect and completed sacrifice and accomplishments at Calvary are mundane. There are no ingrates like dispen ingrates.

Of course you don't. Dispens bow before their ideological godfather John Nelson Darby, who declared:
"I do not admit history to be, in any sense, necessary to the understanding of prophecy."

I'm not dispensational but I don't accept Satan roaming around as a roaring lion on Earth as a fulfilled prophecy. I don't accept Satan being the "god of this world" as fulfillment of Genesis 3:15, OR Revelation 20:1-3
Until Satan's in the lake of fire, Genesis 3:15 is not complete.

But I guess preterists have low standards for perfection.

 

[jgr]

I'm not dispensational but I don't accept Satan roaming around as a roaring lion on Earth as a fulfilled prophecy. I don't accept Satan being the "god of this world" as fulfillment of Genesis 3:15, OR Revelation 20:1-3
Until Satan's in the lake of fire, Genesis 3:15 is not complete.

But I guess preterists have low standards for perfection.

There is no greater standard of perfection than what Christ accomplished at Calvary.

As the historical true Church has always believed.

Whether you believe it or not.

 

[Jamdoc]

There is no greater standard of perfection than what Christ accomplished at Calvary.

As the historical true Church has always believed.

it left Satan as the god of this world and left him prowling around the world like a roaring lion.
That's not having his head crushed even on a spiritual level.

What Christ completed at Calvary was taking on and atoning for our sin. It was not dealing with Satan in the "head crushing" way that was propechcied, and it was not final judgement for the world who rejects Him. Those are yet to come.
It fulfilled first coming, but not second coming prophecies, and both comings are necessary to complete all prophecy.
It set the stage for Satan's demise, but did not actually do it yet.
and even as a Amillennialist you have to accept that Satan's final destruction is not accomplished yet, you only consider him bound. I disagree with even this because of the amount of freedom he still apparently has to act in the world. God declared "deceive the nations NO MORE" that is His words, and His standard, which is perfection. Anything less, is not fulfillment to His standards. You accept "Satan deceives the nations less" as "no more", that's a low bar for a perfect God.

The verses I keep referring to, 2 Corinthians 4:4 and 1 Peter 5:8 were written AFTER Jesus' death, burial, and resurrection, you cannot claim that this was "before Calvary".
If you want to disagree with Paul and Peter, take it up with them and explain how Satan isn't influencing the world they lived in much less ours.
With our legal abortions, Islam, mass shootings, high suicide rates, UBIQUITOUS EASILY ACCESSIBLE PORNOGRAPHY, and multitude of intoxicating drugs and drug addiction...
Yeah that's sure "bound up"

 

[sovereigngrace]

it left Satan as the god of this world and left him prowling around the world like a roaring lion.
That's not having his head crushed even on a spiritual level.

What Christ completed at Calvary was taking on and atoning for our sin. It was not dealing with Satan in the "head crushing" way that was propechcied, and it was not final judgement for the world who rejects Him. Those are yet to come.
It fulfilled first coming, but not second coming prophecies, and both comings are necessary to complete all prophecy.
It set the stage for Satan's demise, but did not actually do it yet.
and even as a Amillennialist you have to accept that Satan's final destruction is not accomplished yet, you only consider him bound. I disagree with even this because of the amount of freedom he still apparently has to act in the world. God declared "deceive the nations NO MORE" that is His words, and His standard, which is perfection. Anything less, is not fulfillment to His standards. You accept "Satan deceives the nations less" as "no more", that's a low bar for a perfect God.

The verses I keep referring to, 2 Corinthians 4:4 and 1 Peter 5:8 were written AFTER Jesus' death, burial, and resurrection, you cannot claim that this was "before Calvary".
If you want to disagree with Paul and Peter, take it up with them and explain how Satan isn't influencing the world they lived in much less ours.
With our legal abortions, Islam, mass shootings, high suicide rates, UBIQUITOUS EASILY ACCESSIBLE PORNOGRAPHY, and multitude of intoxicating drugs and drug addiction...
Yeah that's sure "bound up"

This is one of many reasons why many have abandoned Premil in recent years. It presents such a hopeless defeated doom-and-gloom message. It is the opposite to the victorious NT narrative. It is truly difficult to see Premils continually elevating the power and influence of Satan and belittling the power and influence of Christ. Amils and Postmils have a BIG Christ and a small devil. They have a triumphant Church and a subjugated devil.

If you cannot recognize the incredible success of the great commission and how that countless millions of Gentiles have experienced salvation, and have been wonderfully set free from the bondage of sin, who were once wholesale blind, damned and in spiritual darkness, then you are not seeing the spiritual reality. The light has been shining bright for 2,000 yrs. His name is Jesus Christ (the light of the world). That light is now reflected in the global Church of Jesus Christ (His body) as they advance the good news of the Gospel to the nations (ethnos).

The general broad deception that engulfed the Gentiles in ignorance and darkness is lifted. They now can receive if they believe. That does not suggest the majority will. Acts 13:46-48 says, “Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, it was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you [the Jews]: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the ethnos (or) Gentiles. For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the ethnos (or) Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth. And when the ethnos (or) Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.”

From Acts 10 (and the incident at Cornelius’ house) the Gospel was released unto the darkened Gentiles in a significant manner. They would now be brought from darkness of heathenism unto the light of Christ and His Gospel. The unequivocal words from Paul and Barnabas above confirm that the tide had markedly turned and that the Gospel had opened up to the blinded Gentiles in a very definite way. With the rare exception of the city of Nineveh, the Gospel was previously restricted to the small individual “nation” of natural Israel before the cross. The nations were totally engulfed with a blanket of darkness which was now being removed. The enforcement of Satan’s defeat at the cross would now be realized by the people of God through the faithful preaching of the Word of God. The devil would be spiritually bound as the kingdom of God advanced with the Gospel. This spiritual binding ensures he is unable to defeat the work of the Church of Jesus Christ evangelizing the nations. It was only after Calvary that the good news of salvation was widened out to embrace the heathen “nations” of the world.

From the First Advent, Satan and his minions have been placed in an invisible spiritual prison [the abyss] and are hampered by powerful invisible spiritual chains of restraint which curtails their movement throughout the globe and limits their influence over the nations. It is a spiritual condition of restraint that prevents them from curtailing the Gospel advance to the ethnos (Gentiles).

The dog can go as far as the chain takes him. So, it is with Satan. The restraint he is under restricts his movement, thus curtailing the injury he can inflict. If you get close to a dangerous dog on a leash you will normally experience the consequences. It will bite you. Stay away from it and you will be fine. The reality is, a prisoner in a prison can walk, move, roam even do vice and injury, but that does not negate the fact he is restricted behind bars. Satan is a spiritual being that resides within a spiritual prison since his defeat at the cross.

He is a defeated accuser, according to Scripture. He is cast down. The chains he had on the Gentiles have now been placed on him. Christ now reigns over all His enemies. It is wrong to elevate Satan and dethrone Christ. Christ now holds all power in heaven and on earth and victoriously reigns upon His throne of glory over all principalities and powers. The Bible portrays the opposite picture to what you portray.

I struggle to accept that you cannot see the colossal difference of the state of the Gentiles between before Christ and His first resurrection and after. Maybe your end-time theology is preventing you from admitting the obvious. The victory of the cross was the key to spoiling Satan's power and kingdom. It stripped him of his enormous unchallenged global influence, caused him to be dethroned in untold millions of heathen lives and ensured he was curtailed in countless Gentile villages, towns and cities throughout the world through the faithful preaching of the Word of God.

Sometimes our love for what we have been previously taught by man prevents us seeing biblical truth.

 

[Just The Facts]

Hi Sov

Amils and Postmils have a BIG Christ and a small devil. They have a triumphant Church and a subjugated devil.

Yes we can see from the last 2000 years of Christian History that Isiah was so on the mark

[2] It shall come to pass in the latter days that the mountain of the house of the LORD shall be established as the highest of the mountains, and shall be raised above the hills; and all the nations shall flow to it, [3] and many peoples shall come, and say: "Come, let us go up to the mountain of the LORD,
to the house of the God of Jacob; that he may teach us his ways and that we may walk in his paths." For out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem. [4] He shall judge between the nations, and shall decide for many peoples; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks; nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

The devil is so small and Jesus is so big. You know we should paint crosses on the sides of our trillion of dollars of tanks and warplanes. I mean our hero Constantine did just before he murdered tens of thousands. Perhaps when we are done we can burn a whole bunch of people for being witches or chiliast. I know we should declare that whoever goes to the Mideast and kills that veil race will be guaranteed a place in heaven.

Christianity's betrayal of the new covenant makes the Hebrew betrayal of the old look like kiddy play. We have followed the harlot and become drunk with the wine of our fornication. And for it we deserve no less than the plagues of the seven trumpets

 

[Jamdoc]

This is one of many reasons why many have abandoned Premil in recent years. It presents such a hopeless defeated doom-and-gloom message. It is the opposite to the victorious NT narrative. It is truly difficult to see Premils continually elevating the power and influence of Satan and belittling the power and influence of Christ. Amils and Postmils have a BIG Christ and a small devil. They have a triumphant Church and a subjugated devil.

What you have is self delusion and you don't sigh at the continued brokenness of this world and the continued glorification of sin. You live in a fantasy world in your head apparently.

You also have rose colored glasses and don't seem to grasp that we are right now witnessing the falling away. The world is trending towards wickedness, not righteousness.

We're in the days of Lot (rampant homosexuality) and the days of Noah (rampant violence).

 

[sovereigngrace]

What you have is self delusion and you don't sigh at the continued brokenness of this world and the continued glorification of sin. You live in a fantasy world in your head apparently.

You also have rose colored glasses and don't seem to grasp that we are right now witnessing the falling away. The world is trending towards wickedness, not righteousness.

We're in the days of Lot (rampant homosexuality) and the days of Noah (rampant violence).

Why are you so crude?

Are you so obsessed with what Satan is doing and his evil that you miss what God is doing? None of the folly of man dilutes the sovereign authority of Christ ruling and reigning over all mankind. You can mock the supreme authority of Christ all you wish but it does not diminish it in any way. Scripture constantly depicts the magnificence, greatness and mighty power of Christ sitting at the right hand of Majesty ruling at the place of sovereign authority upon high. He holds all heaven’s power. He is King of kings. He is Lord of lords.

Hebrews 1:1-3 confirms: “God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty (megalosune) on high."

The word “Majesty” is interpreted from the Greek word megalosune, meaning greatness, i.e. (figuratively) divinity (often God himself). It speaks of glory, mighty power, magnificence and splendour. The phrase “being the brightness of his glory” literally reads “He is the radiance of his glory.”

Christ is no mere impotent king-in-waiting. He is not a want-to-be king. He is no ordinary powerless Prince. We see this in Matthew 28:18, where, after His resurrection, He victoriously declared, “All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.”

This is sovereign kingship! He holds this today upon His Father’s throne. Him and the Father are one spiritually in authority. All heaven’s authority was deposited upon Christ through the triumph of Calvary where He triumphantly procured absolute victory over death, hell, sin, Satan and every enemy. Christ thus assumed the heavenly throne in perfect fulfilment of Old Testament prophecy and therefore reigns as Sovereign king until His last enemy is made His footstool.

Peter recognizes this in Acts 2:33, saying, “Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.”

Again, in Acts 5:30-31, he teaches: “The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree. Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.”

He has been “exalted” to the highest place and enjoys unchallenged authority now and for all eternity. Christ exercises divine kingship at the place of ultimate omnipotence as God and as Messiah. As God, Christ holds all power and authority in heaven and on earth, reigning over all creation. But as man He reigns over all His new creation (true spiritual Israel). His deity was simply veiled in a human body during His earthly ministry.

Hebrews 8:1 also says: "We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty (megalosune) in the heavens."

This phrase is synonymous with sitting at "the right hand of the power of God" (Matthew 26:64, Mark 14:62 and Luke 22:69). The “right hand” is therefore the special place of honour and power. Christ now enjoys full participation in God’s glory in His lofty seat. Of course, repeated Scripture shows us that this means He carries all power. In fact, there is nothing that is not under His authority. The majesty that He possesses is real and ongoing. In a biblical sense, being at “the right hand of the Majesty” or “the right hand of the power of God” means to be the one upon whom majesty, power and authority rests and through whom it operates.

2 Peter 1:16 testifies: "For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty (megaleiotes – meaning magnificence, mighty power). For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount.”

He carried this Majesty and glory on earth as heaven’s King, albeit in a veiled sense, hidden behind human flesh. That veil was briefly lifted on the Mount of transfiguration but is now manifest in all its eternal unparalleled glory in heaven. It will be seen when He appears in power and glory at the second coming to destroy all sin, rebellion and the wicked.

Jude 25 tells us: "To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty (megaleiotes – meaning magnificence, mighty power), dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen."

 

[Jamdoc]

Why are you so crude?

Are you so obsessed with what Satan is doing and his evil that you miss what God is doing? None of the folly of man dilutes the sovereign authority of Christ ruling and reigning over all mankind. You can mock the supreme authority of Christ all you wish but it does not diminish it in any way. Scripture constantly depicts the magnificence, greatness and mighty power of Christ sitting at the right hand of Majesty ruling at the place of sovereign authority upon high. He holds all heaven’s power. He is King of kings. He is Lord of lords.

Hebrews 1:1-3 confirms: “God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty (megalosune) on high."

The word “Majesty” is interpreted from the Greek word megalosune, meaning greatness, i.e. (figuratively) divinity (often God himself). It speaks of glory, mighty power, magnificence and splendour. The phrase “being the brightness of his glory” literally reads “He is the radiance of his glory.”

Christ is no mere impotent king-in-waiting. He is not a want-to-be king. He is no ordinary powerless Prince. We see this in Matthew 28:18, where, after His resurrection, He victoriously declared, “All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.”

This is sovereign kingship! He holds this today upon His Father’s throne. Him and the Father are one spiritually in authority. All heaven’s authority was deposited upon Christ through the triumph of Calvary where He triumphantly procured absolute victory over death, hell, sin, Satan and every enemy. Christ thus assumed the heavenly throne in perfect fulfilment of Old Testament prophecy and therefore reigns as Sovereign king until His last enemy is made His footstool.

Peter recognizes this in Acts 2:33, saying, “Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.”

Again, in Acts 5:30-31, he teaches: “The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree. Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.”

He has been “exalted” to the highest place and enjoys unchallenged authority now and for all eternity. Christ exercises divine kingship at the place of ultimate omnipotence as God and as Messiah. As God, Christ holds all power and authority in heaven and on earth, reigning over all creation. But as man He reigns over all His new creation (true spiritual Israel). His deity was simply veiled in a human body during His earthly ministry.

Hebrews 8:1 also says: "We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty (megalosune) in the heavens."

This phrase is synonymous with sitting at "the right hand of the power of God" (Matthew 26:64, Mark 14:62 and Luke 22:69). The “right hand” is therefore the special place of honour and power. Christ now enjoys full participation in God’s glory in His lofty seat. Of course, repeated Scripture shows us that this means He carries all power. In fact, there is nothing that is not under His authority. The majesty that He possesses is real and ongoing. In a biblical sense, being at “the right hand of the Majesty” or “the right hand of the power of God” means to be the one upon whom majesty, power and authority rests and through whom it operates.

2 Peter 1:16 testifies: "For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty (megaleiotes – meaning magnificence, mighty power). For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount.”

He carried this Majesty and glory on earth as heaven’s King, albeit in a veiled sense, hidden behind human flesh. That veil was briefly lifted on the Mount of transfiguration but is now manifest in all its eternal unparalleled glory in heaven. It will be seen when He appears in power and glory at the second coming to destroy all sin, rebellion and the wicked.

Jude 25 tells us: "To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty (megaleiotes – meaning magnificence, mighty power), dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen."

TL;DR, but if God is willing to condemn a person to hell forever over a single unforgiven sin, do you really think He's considering this current world up to His standards and is satisfied with it?

Yes spread the good tidings but at the same time, sigh and cry for all the abominations that be done in the midst thereof

 

[jeffweedaman]

Hi Jeff



That does not line up with scripture

It lines up perfectly. Paul teaches us according to the Lords own word ( 1Thess 4 ) and 2Thess 1 and Matt 25 prove it. Peter endorses Pauls writing on the subject as scripture.
There is complete harmony between them.


[Jeff I do not want what I am about to say offend you but I feel I must say it. Amills do this very often They use Paul to override Jesus words. You have it backwards you have to use Jesus words and understand Paul's words in light of Jesus' words not vise versa.]

See above. You should take your own advice when quoting Rev 20.
John in Rev 20 is referring to what he wrote in his Gospel in chapter5.

Jn 5
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.


The time NOW IS for having this assurance.


25 Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live.

Without being bodily resurrected we have confidence that we will not come under the judgment of the second death. Those who hear and believe are covered and cleansed forever by his own blood, and the second death hath no power at all over us.

REV 20
6 Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years

 

[Just The Facts]

Hi Jeff

It lines up perfectly. Paul teaches us according to the Lords own word ( 1Thess 4 ) and 2Thess 1 and Matt 25 prove it. Peter endorses Pauls writing on the subject as scripture.
There is complete harmony between them.

You are just not getting this. what's more you do not even address the point I made. You are mistaking the assurance of the promise which we get right now and all who have died since Jesus's death have had. That our deeds follow us to that day when we shall receive the promise. That they will be raised and attend the wedding feast at dawn on the Day of the Lord. THE DAY OF THE LORD IS 1,000 YEARS LONG. Your refusal to accept Peter's very plain words and Revelation 20: confirmation of this has you left in the dark.

It is clear to me you will never change your mind so I wish you peace in your journey, We can agree to disagree.

 

[sovereigngrace]

Hi Jeff



You are just not getting this. what's more you do not even address the point I made. You are mistaking the assurance of the promise which we get right now and all who have died since Jesus's death have had. That our deeds follow us to that day when we shall receive the promise. That they will be raised and attend the wedding feast at dawn on the Day of the Lord. THE DAY OF THE LORD IS 1,000 YEARS LONG. Your refusal to accept Peter's very plain words and Revelation 20: confirmation of this has you left in the dark.

It is clear to me you will never change your mind so I wish you peace in your journey, We can agree to disagree.

Where in the Bible does it say “the day of the Lord is 1,000 years long”?

 

[jeffweedaman]

Where in the Bible does it say “the day of the Lord is 1,000 years long”?

What it does say is TDOTL comes like a thief and sudden destruction falls upon those not ready.

1Thess 5
5 Now as to the periods and times, brothers and sisters, you have no need of anything to be written to you. 2 For you yourselves know full well that the day of the Lord is coming just like a thief in the night. 3 While they are saying, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction will come upon them like labor pains upon a pregnant woman, and they will not escape. 4 But you, brothers and sisters, are not in darkness, so that the day would overtake you like a thief; 5 for you are all sons of light and sons of day. We are not of night nor of darkness; 6 so then, let’s not sleep as others do, but let’s be alert and sober. 7 For those who sleep, sleep at night, and those who are drunk, get drunk at night. 8 But since we are of the day, let’s be sober, having put on the breastplate of faith and love, and as a helmet, the hope of salvation. 9 For God has not destined us for wrath, but for obtaining salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, 10 who died for us, so that whether we are awake or asleep, we will live together with Him.

 

[sovereigngrace]

What it does say is TDOTL comes like a thief and sudden destruction falls upon those not ready.

1Thess 5
5 Now as to the periods and times, brothers and sisters, you have no need of anything to be written to you. 2 For you yourselves know full well that the day of the Lord is coming just like a thief in the night. 3 While they are saying, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction will come upon them like labor pains upon a pregnant woman, and they will not escape. 4 But you, brothers and sisters, are not in darkness, so that the day would overtake you like a thief; 5 for you are all sons of light and sons of day. We are not of night nor of darkness; 6 so then, let’s not sleep as others do, but let’s be alert and sober. 7 For those who sleep, sleep at night, and those who are drunk, get drunk at night. 8 But since we are of the day, let’s be sober, having put on the breastplate of faith and love, and as a helmet, the hope of salvation. 9 For God has not destined us for wrath, but for obtaining salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, 10 who died for us, so that whether we are awake or asleep, we will live together with Him.

Exactly bro! Premils need to start letting Scripture speak for itself instead of twisting it to fit their doctrine. Also, 2 Peter 3:3-13 tells us: “there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, And saying, Where is the promise of his coming [Gr. parousia]? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.”

How can anyone survive this? They cannot! It's impossible! Well the second coming is the end for the wicked, the righteous inherit the new heavens and new earth; not some suppose future thousand years that is polluted by sin, sinners, Satan, death and ongoing corruption. The appearing of Christ spells the end for all unrighteousness. Anything that is not glorified is consumed. Peter demonstrates here that when Jesus comes back the heavens, earth and all that is on the earth, and the elements are going to dissolve. His glory and unchallenged reign will be set up on the new renewed earth.

 

[Douggg]

Jeff I do not want what I am about to say offend you but I feel I must say it. Amills do this very often They use Paul to override Jesus words. You have it backwards you have to use Jesus words and understand Paul's words in light of Jesus' words not vise versa.

Good point.

 

[Douggg]

We're in the days of Lot (rampant homosexuality) and the days of Noah (rampant violence).

Good point.

 

[Just The Facts]

Hello All

Exactly bro! Premils need to start letting Scripture speak for itself instead of twisting it to fit their doctrine.

Bahhahahahahahahahah Talk about the pot calling the kettle black. It is not Premills that say no you are wrong this verse really means this and that verse really means this to an amill nothing that is written really means what it says you must apply a man made spiritual meaning to it so that you can understand. Bahahahahahahahahahahaha

Peter is saying Jesus has not come back yet and that The promise is still to be fulfilled. Yet you claim the Kingdom is here. It blows me away the way you use verses that totally contradict you and then say they prove your point. Paul was right a strong delusion indeed.

Indeed Peter is talking about Jesus returning and fulfilling the promise and the inheritance and yet amills claim this has already happened. Peter when directly talking about the day of the Lord says A DAY IS A THOUSAND YEARS to God and amills says when does scripture say the day of the Lord is a thousand years.

Jesus return to gather the elect, The wedding feast, the 1,000 years of peace on Earth where men learn war no more and the Judgement of the wicked they are all on the same day ie: The day of the Lord, which when discussing the day of the Lord Peter says to God a day is a thousand years. And Peter is not the only place in scripture where we are told this. tell you what I will believe the word of God and you believe your false teachers and we can both be happy.

But please do feel free to believe your heaped up piles of false teachers who have lead Christianity into thousands of years of murder death and destruction teaching false precept upon false precept lie upon lie. Christianity's sins are heaped high as heaven. Yet it still sits saying I am a queen bride of the king I shall never see sorrow.

Please read my signature verses and understand what God is saying to the Christian Churches.