One Jesus, two testimonies?

[Floatingaxe]

Fear and discrimination against homosexuals...it has nothing to do with a "homosexual agenda". There are people out there that kill or display prejudice against gay people, which is why the term exists. It has nothing to do with an agenda. God is certainly not a homophobe, however, there are plenty of Christians who misinterpret the Bible that certainly are fully of bigotry against gays.

Talk about an agenda, see the Westboro Baptist Church for details on a homophobic agenda.

It has everything to do with the homosexual agenda!

Anytime someone makes a proper godly assertion about the lifestyle, now you have a word to denounce us all. It's a cop-out...so you don't have to face your sin. Just point at all the "intolerant" Christians. It's not only Christians who embrace decency.

 

[savedandhappy1]

It's easy to give an opinion that conforms with the majority. It's brave to give an opinion to the contrary. I suspect more studies will be coming out soon and I suspect it won't be in the favour of the homophobic Christians.

You are correct the closer we get to the Lords return the more those itchy ears will need scratched, and the more false teachers/preachers will be there to scratch those itchy ears. More and more people will be saying he is over here or he is over there, and people will follow because they have been deceived into making God what they want Him to be.

Isn't it amazing how much more the scholars today know about what was meant back then? They are so good that they are even proving that those who preached it back then would be convinced that they didn't really mean what they preached and taught.

You hit the nail right on the head, because we can sit back and watch the scriptures being fulfilled right before our eyes. We see good things being call bad, and bad things being called good. Yep you are so right it won't be long before another false report will come out, but the Lord warned us of these days, and since I know He is in control I will continue to Praise Him no matter what until He returns.

The Bible we hold in our hand is so riddled with errors http://foru.ms/t6387648-some-basic-errors-in-the-inerrant-bible.html that as Christians we need to prayerfully and studiously read our Bible. A Christian should question any motive to hate a group coming from Scripture as God is love not hate.

Oh, I know it is full of errors, that is why they found manuscripts way over yonder which match the manuscripts that are older that were found way over the other way.

It is so interesting to see how if a person believes that homosexuality is a sin, it means that they don't prayerfully and studiously read their Bible. I use many bibles, commentaries, computer searches, and much more to assist me with my studies, and that is beside being prayerful before, during and after studying. So I would ask that you not bear false witness aganist me, please?

Yes I agree if anyone who professes to be a Christian finds themselves hating a person or a group of people they really need to examine their hearts and be in prayer for help with any hate they have.

I was wondering if you have tried that since you and so many others here are the ones bearing false witness against me and others. I am neither homophobic, or a hater or a bigot, but yet so many people here think that if they call us that long enough we will stop standing on the Word on God. They think that when others read these post they will believe these lies, and sadly there will be some that will be deceived and satan will have another child for his kingdom. His kingdom made up of counterfeit.............................

It is not hate to adhere to a set of standards (and consequences for not following them) that one believes God established.

It is not hate to want people to spend eternity in heaven as compared to hell.

It is not hate or fear or whatever name you want to label a person with, because they like the Lord loves people so much that they don't want people to perish. If it is then God must be a hater too, because we are told over and over that He doesn't want that.

Just more examples of how good will be called bad. I didn't think I would ever see the day when prayerfully someone would try to keep someone out of hell and it would be considered wrong.

I was wrong though because I see it everyday.

 

[davedjy]

It has everything to do with the homosexual agenda!

Anytime someone makes a proper godly assertion about the lifestyle, now you have a word to denounce us all. It's a cop-out...so you don't have to face your sin. Just point at all the "intolerant" Christians. It's not only Christians who embrace decency.

Right, so if a gay or lesbian is killed in a hate crime and someone calls that person a "homophobe" as well as a cold-blooded killer, that would be part of the "homosexual agenda"???


Go ahead and erase the word "homophobe", and put in bigotry. It is bigotry any way you slice it. Using the Bible to JUSTIFY your prejudices with interpretations, which is the REAL cop out that SOME Christians use (the divisive ones) to TRY and separate gays and lesbians from Christianity.

Gays and lesbians do face some of the GREATEST forms of prejudice in our society, so you trying to make the word "homophobe" about "a homosexual agenda", isn't going to work here.

 

[Floatingaxe]

Right, so if a gay or lesbian is killed in a hate crime and someone calls that person a "homophobe" as well as a cold-blooded killer, that would be part of the "homosexual agenda"???

They are just hateful people. Period.

Go ahead and erase the word "homophobe", and put in bigotry. It is bigotry any way you slice it. Using the Bible to JUSTIFY your prejudices with interpretations, which is the REAL cop out that SOME Christians use (the divisive ones) to TRY and separate gays and lesbians from Christianity.

I never use the word homophobe and as far as bigotry, it's all in your minds. We stand for the righteousness of God against open, flagrant sin. It's not bigotry at all. We don't USE the bible to justify anything. God offers us eternal life in exchange for our obedience. You happen to choose against the Christian life. Fine. But you cannot hope to have a relationship with God or Hos children when you refuse His ways.

That's not bigotry. That's life...do evil and people don't like you.

 

[davedjy]

They are just hateful people. Period.

No, you are skirting the point. There are people that SPECIFICALLY have prejudices against gay people.

I never use the word homophobe and as far as bigotry, it's all in your minds. We stand for the righteousness of God against open, flagrant sin. It's not bigotry at all.

Of course you don't see it as bigotry, which makes it all the more why it is to start.

We don;t USE the bible to justify anything. God offers us eternal life in exchange for our obedience. You happen to choose against the Christian life. Fine. But you cannot hope to have a relationship with God or Hos children when you refuse His ways.

That's not bigotry. That's life.

It IS bigotry. You isolate a sex act from a valid orientation, using interpretations of the Bible to do so. You also say that person couldn't possibly have a relationship with God, but God would never discriminate against who a person actually is.
The fact that you actually believe that person could not have a relationship with Christ, proves all the more how little you really know on that.

 

[Floatingaxe]

No, you are skirting the point. There are people that SPECIFICALLY have prejudices against gay people.

Yes, there are..Just hateful people all around. None of them are here, however.

Of course you don't see it as bigotry, which makes it all the more why it is to start.

Huh? What else are you planning to start? LOL

It IS bigotry. You isolate a sex act from a valid orientation, using interpretations of the Bible to do so. You also say that person couldn't possibly have a relationship with God, but God would never discriminate against who a person actually is.

Sure He would. "Sheep go here. Goats over there." Orientation is man's device, not God's. We are all born with the same orientation: hellbound.

The fact that you actually believe that person could not have a relationship with Christ, proves all the more how little you really know on that.

They cannot have an intimate relationship with God, because His grieved Spirit can't stick around.

 

[GenemZ]

ou also say that person couldn't possibly have a relationship with God, but God would never discriminate against who a person actually is.
The fact that you actually believe that person could not have a relationship with Christ, proves all the more how little you really know on that.

I think there is a major misunderstanding here. There is a difference between having a relationship with Christ, because one was born again. And, having an active living spiritual relationship, after one is born again.

In order to maintain an active relationship (being filled with the Holy Spirit) one must remain honest about one's sins. If not? We remain habitually out of fellowship with God. We remain as a prodigal son - not in an active living spiritual relationship, yet a relation.

Even if we refuse to acknowledge our sins as a Christian? We remain in relationship by virtue of having been born again at some point in our life. But the relationship is not alive to the Spirit's power as long as we deny our sin is sin.

1 John 1:9 (New International Version)
"If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness."


​

If we deny that we sin? We believe a lie and we do not walk according to truth from God.

"If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.

If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives."
​

1 John 1:8-10 (New International Version)
​

​

To say God approves of homosexuality is like saying God approves of incest as long as its a loving committed relationship. When the shoe is on the other foot, even you can see how ludicrous that sounds. Yet? What the pro gay movement says to us? Sounds equally absurd.

A loving committed incestuous relationship? Its a lie. Only those blinded by its desire can not see the reality of it being sin. Others, can. But, they do not want to give it up.

God is made out to be a liar by saying he approves of a loving committed incestuous relationship. It does not have to be only homosexuality.


The real problem here? Sexual deviation is not because of sex drive. Its caused by having a perverse understanding of truth to begin with. Sex drive is only the means . Not the cause.

Sexual expression is an outward manifestation of the inner man. The real problem with such maladjustment is one of having perverse concepts of what reality is and wanting them to be true. A perverse view of God's love and truth is one such example.

This maladjustment becomes more than evident in how the gay propaganda machine kept changing its rationales over time. For its trying to find that one magic bullet that will finally pierce the armor of God's Word.

It keeps seeking that glorious "undeniable contradiction."

In the mean time, the invisible power realm of this world sends souls here to test the waters to try and perfect, and find that "undeniable contradiction" to God's truth.

One contradiction which is often tried. "Well, God made me this way!" Yet, it is not God. It was Adam. Not, God.

God can not be held responsible for someone being gay. That, goes back onto Adam's shoulders. For all of us are born defective as a result of Adam's sin. If Adam did not sin? None of us would be homosexual.

As long as there are Spirit filled believers who are growing in truth? The undeniable contradiction will not be found.

In the mean time what doctrinally sound Christians are confronted with, is like a mutating virus wanting to overcome the spiritual immune system in a given society. Christians walking and growing in sound Bible doctrine are the white blood cells of their nation. They are the salt of the earth. They help preserve it.

But? .. If Christians fail to keep on growing in grace and knowledge of Christ? Then that society suffers from cultural form of AIDS. The immune system gets worn out and shut down by the ever changing (mutating) virus wearing it out, and that culture loses its vitality to fight the lies.


So it is..... And, so shall it be.

In the Lord of Life.. Christ, GeneZ
​

 

[Phinehas2]

Dear Ohioprof,

If Christians are all united, then why is there so much disagreement among us?

There isn’t any disagreement among Christians, Christians are all united by the same belief and Spirit of God, that’s what makes them Christians.

The short answer to your question is no.

Then you don’t believe in or follow Jesus as you have demonstrated There is no judgment against anyone who believes in him, but anyone who does not believe in him has already been judged for not believing in God’s one and only Son. And the judgment is based on this fact: God’s light came into the world, but people loved the darkness more than the light, for their actions were evil. All who do evil hate the light and refuse to go near it for fear their sins will be exposed. But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God.

I do not lie. I speak the truth as I understand it. Please stop accusing me of lying. If you want to disagree with me, that's fine. But accusing me of lying is simply personal slander, and that's not particularly helpful to to the discussion, nor is it convincing to people who don't already agree with you.

Please stop trying to tell us what a lie is. According to Jesus Christ’s Biblical testimony which Christians believe is the truth, you are lying because you deny the truth. That’s fair enough you are perfectly entitled to do so and equally claim the Bible is a lie.

I do not have faith in order to achieve salvation. I believe all are saved. I have faith because I love God and I love God's creation, and my faith is a celebration of that.

yes that’s fine but which god do you follow, the one you refer to is not the Christian God whose testimony is the Bible which you don’t believe.

I know many Christians who believe what I do. There are not many of them posting here, but there are many in the world. The entire Christian community does not believe what you do. Different Christians hold different beliefs about the role of the Bible in their faith, how to interpret the Bible, and what other sources of knowledge to look to..

No Christians believe the Bible, if people don’t believe the Biblical account of God then they aren’t Christians.

I follow the teachings of Jesus. I have a different view than you do about what his teachings were.

No you have a different Jesus, you cant have the same one as me if you don’t believe Jesus to be the same one as me. How many times do you need to be told? Its basic simple logic

 

[Ohioprof]

They are just hateful people. Period.




I never use the word homophobe and as far as bigotry, it's all in your minds. We stand for the righteousness of God against open, flagrant sin. It's not bigotry at all. We don't USE the bible to justify anything. God offers us eternal life in exchange for our obedience. You happen to choose against the Christian life. Fine. But you cannot hope to have a relationship with God or Hos children when you refuse His ways.

That's not bigotry. That's life...do evil and people don't like you.

Was the bigotry experienced by Matt Shepherd all in his mind? Was the murder he experienced because of bigotry all in his mind?

 

[Ohioprof]

Dear Ohioprof,
There isn’t any disagreement among Christians, Christians are all united by the same belief and Spirit of God, that’s what makes them Christians.

Then you don’t believe in or follow Jesus as you have demonstrated There is no judgment against anyone who believes in him, but anyone who does not believe in him has already been judged for not believing in God’s one and only Son. And the judgment is based on this fact: God’s light came into the world, but people loved the darkness more than the light, for their actions were evil. All who do evil hate the light and refuse to go near it for fear their sins will be exposed. But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God.

Please stop trying to tell us what a lie is. According to Jesus Christ’s Biblical testimony which Christians believe is the truth, you are lying because you deny the truth. That’s fair enough you are perfectly entitled to do so and equally claim the Bible is a lie.

yes that’s fine but which god do you follow, the one you refer to is not the Christian God whose testimony is the Bible which you don’t believe.

No Christians believe the Bible, if people don’t believe the Biblical account of God then they aren’t Christians.

No you have a different Jesus, you cant have the same one as me if you don’t believe Jesus to be the same one as me. How many times do you need to be told? Its basic simple logic

As I have said before, I will post what I think and believe, whether you agree with me or not. If you disagree with me, fine; you can disagree with me without denigrating my posts and without presuming to order me around in a haughty tone. I post what I think, and I don't care how many times you try to beat over the head with your dictionary or your Bible.

 

[Phinehas2]

Dear Ohioprof,
Its telling me who your jesus is is what I am asking you! Thats not denigrating you.
you cant have the same one as me if you don’t believe Jesus to be the same one as me whose testimony is in the Bible.

Was the bigotry experienced by Matt Shepherd all in his mind? Was the murder he experienced because of bigotry all in his mind?

No it wasnt.
Was the bigotry and treatment experienced by Harry Hammond, all in his mind? No
We can trade injustices all day Ohioprof, we arent really debating but just talking at each other. I am offering my benchmark of what I believe, all you are doing is saying you believe in a different Jesus.

 

[Ohioprof]

Dear Ohioprof,
Its telling me who your jesus is is what I am asking you! Thats not denigrating you.
you cant have the same one as me if you don’t believe Jesus to be the same one as me whose testimony is in the Bible.
No it wasnt.
Was the bigotry and treatment experienced by Harry Hammond, all in his mind? No
We can trade injustices all day Ohioprof, we arent really debating but just talking at each other. I am offering my benchmark of what I believe, all you are doing is saying you believe in a different Jesus.

I do not believe in a different Jesus. I view Jesus and his message differently from you. As the moderator has warned you already, this forum is not the inquisition, and I am not going to justify my religious beliefs to you. They are my beliefs. These threads are for the discussion of how Christians should treat gay people. Let's stick to the topic, shall we?

 

[Ohioprof]

I think there is a major misunderstanding here. There is a difference between having a relationship with Christ, because one was born again. And, having an active living spiritual relationship, after one is born again.

In order to maintain an active relationship (being filled with the Holy Spirit) one must remain honest about one's sins. If not? We remain habitually out of fellowship with God. We remain as a prodigal son - not in an active living spiritual relationship, yet a relation.

Even if we refuse to acknowledge our sins as a Christian? We remain in relationship by virtue of having been born again at some point in our life. But the relationship is not alive to the Spirit's power as long as we deny our sin is sin.

1 John 1:9 (New International Version)
"If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness."


​

If we deny that we sin? We believe a lie and we do not walk according to truth from God.

"If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.

If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives."
​

1 John 1:8-10 (New International Version)
​

​

To say God approves of homosexuality is like saying God approves of incest as long as its a loving committed relationship. When the shoe is on the other foot, even you can see how ludicrous that sounds. Yet? What the pro gay movement says to us? Sounds equally absurd.

A loving committed incestuous relationship? Its a lie. Only those blinded by its desire can not see the reality of it being sin. Others, can. But, they do not want to give it up.

God is made out to be a liar by saying he approves of a loving committed incestuous relationship. It does not have to be only homosexuality.


The real problem here? Sexual deviation is not because of sex drive. Its caused by having a perverse understanding of truth to begin with. Sex drive is only the means . Not the cause.

Sexual expression is an outward manifestation of the inner man. The real problem with such maladjustment is one of having perverse concepts of what reality is and wanting them to be true. A perverse view of God's love and truth is one such example.

This maladjustment becomes more than evident in how the gay propaganda machine kept changing its rationales over time. For its trying to find that one magic bullet that will finally pierce the armor of God's Word.

It keeps seeking that glorious "undeniable contradiction."

In the mean time, the invisible power realm of this world sends souls here to test the waters to try and perfect, and find that "undeniable contradiction" to God's truth.

One contradiction which is often tried. "Well, God made me this way!" Yet, it is not God. It was Adam. Not, God.

God can not be held responsible for someone being gay. That, goes back onto Adam's shoulders. For all of us are born defective as a result of Adam's sin. If Adam did not sin? None of us would be homosexual.

As long as there are Spirit filled believers who are growing in truth? The undeniable contradiction will not be found.

In the mean time what doctrinally sound Christians are confronted with, is like a mutating virus wanting to overcome the spiritual immune system in a given society. Christians walking and growing in sound Bible doctrine are the white blood cells of their nation. They are the salt of the earth. They help preserve it.

But? .. If Christians fail to keep on growing in grace and knowledge of Christ? Then that society suffers from cultural a form of AIDS. The immune system gets worn out and shut down by the ever changing (mutating) virus wearing it out, and that culture loses its vitality to fight the lies.


So it is..... And, so shall it be.

In the Lord of Life.. Christ, GeneZ
​

Actually, there is disagreement about what is unacceptable "incest." First cousin marriages are legal in many states, and in many other nations.

 

[Ohioprof]

Dear Ohioprof,
Its telling me who your jesus is is what I am asking you! Thats not denigrating you.
you cant have the same one as me if you don’t believe Jesus to be the same one as me whose testimony is in the Bible.
No it wasnt.
Was the bigotry and treatment experienced by Harry Hammond, all in his mind? No
We can trade injustices all day Ohioprof, we arent really debating but just talking at each other. I am offering my benchmark of what I believe, all you are doing is saying you believe in a different Jesus.

My post about Matt Shepherd was directed not to you, but to FloatingAxe, who claimed that bigotry is all in our minds. You obviously agree with me that it is not.

Perhaps you should respond to Floatingaxe, and point out to her that bigotry is not all in our minds.

 

[lincolngreen50]

As I have said before, I will post what I think and believe, whether you agree with me or not. If you disagree with me, fine; you can disagree with me without denigrating my posts and without presuming to order me around in a haughty tone. I post what I think, and I don't care how many times you try to beat over the head with your dictionary or your Bible.

I quote from The Geneva Bible 1560
1Cor 6:9
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor wantons, nor buggerers.
Buggerers.Those who practise Anal intercourse.
As Christians it is only right to point out that those not following the Word of God and try to communicate a lie about Gods Word will be Judged by Him.
2 Peter 2:18-19 (New King James Version)

Deceptions of False Teachers
18 For when they speak great swelling words of emptiness, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through lewdness, the ones who have actually escaped from those who live in error. 19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are slaves of corruption; for by whom a person is overcome, by him also he is brought into bondage
20 For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. 21 For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them. 22 But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: “A dog returns to his own vomit, and, “a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire.

Dear Ohioprof,It is irrelevent whether one believes in the Word of God,The Holy Scriptures or not,Gods Judgment will still apply.
There are Christians,young people out there who are new in their belief and God will not take kindly to those who try to influence God`s children from the Word of God.

 

[Phinehas2]

Dear Ohioprof,

I do not believe in a different Jesus. I view Jesus and his message differently from you.

No you do not, you do not view the same message as me, the message I view and believe is the whole Biblical testimony., you say you dont believe it. So you cant have the same Jesus.

As the moderator has warned you already, this forum is not the inquisition, and I am not going to justify my religious beliefs to you.

How do you know what the moderator has warned me about?

They are my beliefs. These threads are for the discussion of how Christians should treat gay people. Let's stick to the topic, shall we?

These threads are about debates on homosexuality Ohioprof, not just how Christians 'should treat gays'.

In fact Ohioprof this thread is about One Jesus two testimonies and how that cant be the same Jesus, yes I am sticking to the topic.

 

[Phinehas2]

Dear Ohioprof,

Perhaps you should respond to Floatingaxe, and point out to her that bigotry is not all in our minds.

As my example shows there is what you call bigotry against Christians. But you are the one who has been crying biogtry, not FloatingAxe or myself, I dont have to respond to FloatingAxe, its your remarks that I am addressing.

 

[Zaac]

Go ahead and erase the word "homophobe", and put in bigotry. It is bigotry any way you slice it. Using the Bible to JUSTIFY your prejudices with interpretations, which is the REAL cop out that SOME Christians use (the divisive ones) to TRY and separate gays and lesbians from Christianity.

Gays and lesbians do face some of the GREATEST forms of prejudice in our society, so you trying to make the word "homophobe" about "a homosexual agenda", isn't going to work here.

Gays and lesbians are also some of the greatest pushers of prejudice in our society.

If you don't agree with their agenda, you're suddenly bigoted and hateful and a homophobe.

 

[Zaac]

I do not believe in a different Jesus.

Yes you do. Might as well call a spade a spade.

If your jesus christ is not aligned with the Jesus Christ of the Bible, you have fashioned your own jesus.

And oh the many ways in which you have fashioned your own.

Your jesus tells you that all are saved. The Jesus Christ of the Bible says otherwise.

And by the very truth of the Jesus Christ of the Bible, I can with full assurance say that you're worshipping a false jesus that is not Jesus Christ.

 

[Floatingaxe]

Was the bigotry experienced by Matt Shepherd all in his mind? Was the murder he experienced because of bigotry all in his mind?

Don't pollute. The people who killed that young boy were evil hateful men. Yes, they were hateful, murderous bigots.

Christians, however, are carrying the truth to you and you refuse it. They speak to you out of the love of Jesus, and not bigotry. Calling us bigots reveals you have no discerning power, that you cannot recognize truth when it is before you. It says to me that if He stood before you, you would call Jesus every name in the book also. Worse than bigotry, in my book.