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I've quoted clear verses that speak of "falling from salvation". I could give you lots more (like Gal5:4 & 2Pet2:20-21), but I do not think they would be accepted by strong OSAS proponents. That verse in 2Tim2:13 that assures us of God's faithfulness, is immediately preceded by: "If we endure, we shall reign with Him. But if we deny Him, He will also deny us (and we will not reign with Him)."if whilst we were still his enemies Christ died for us, why would he forsake us if we turn against him for a time once we are saved? The bible does not say anywhere that we can LOSE our salvation-our relationship with God- YES , because it takes two to have a relationship, if one does not want to know, then that relationship is broken- but all relationships can be restored and God is never the one who isn't willing to restore it- it is us who are unfaithful to him! God is always faithful to us!
A couple of fine points---God does not "keep a person saved" at all. Salvation is by grace, through faith. God's grace, our faith. So the "keeping", is done by us. Hence, Jude's admonition, "KEEP YOURSELVES in the love of God". (21) And Peter's admonition "be diligent that the fruits commensurate with salvation are manifest in us, for in this way (having the heart-that-manifests-the-good-fruits) the EISODOS GATE of Heaven will be provided" (mutually exclusive, not provided in any other way). (2:1:5-11)Yes but I would argue that God is NOT giving freewill by only keeping a person saved if they remain in him.
Who said it is out of fear? "There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves punishment, and the one who fears is not perfected in love. We love, because He first loved us. (1Jn4:18-19)The fact is God wants us to freely choose to love him and put him first as Lord of our lives. How can we freely love and obey God, if we are doing it because we are afraid of being thrown into the lake of fire if we don't?
Without the freedom to lose (specifically, reject) salvation, there is no "free will"...If that is the case then we really are serving and loving God primarily out of fear of losing our salvation. Take the loss of salvation out and we then have total free will- not to lose our salvation-
The problem is the abundance of Scriptures that say otherwise. Not that He won't CALL them back, but that some of them, who once belonged, won't COME back...(I believe that no-one truly born again of the Spirit of God can eternally reject him---because he will eventually be drawn back).
Was this not identical to when you first came to Him? The "faith-unto-salvation-born-of-your-heart's-conviction"? While you were lost, did you not have the freedom to stay lost, or to return (just as the Prodigal Son had---and JUST LIKE him, you were at rock bottom and returned to where you were!)? Doesn't your post fairly scream of "free will"?Only after years of dismal failure sinwise and recently going through months of relentless and extremely difficult testing and trials have I finally realized God's will is infinitely the best for my life- I also finally want to do His will and be obedient to God, putting Jesus first as Lord of my life.
Louis---please forgive a bit of forgetfulness. Was looking back at the last two pages---what was your post that you wanted replied? Were you asking me for a reply? Was it about "double predestination"?Still waiting on a reply to my post...
Really? "If some did not believe, their unbelief will not nullify the faithfulness of God, will it?" Rm3:3Umm..that's what the verse says It says once you're saved you're always saved.
Sometimes semantics can be confusing. The Bible is very clear about the difference between "SALVATION" and "ETERNAL LIFE". In 1Jn5 it says, "He who HAS the Son has the life; I write this that you can KNOW you have eternal life". But this fits perfectly with the concept that "salvation is ABIDING in Christ" ("Abide in Me, and [I will] abide in you"). So that, while we abide in Him, we have eternal life. This does not dispute the reality that eternal life does not exist until after death (or after Jesus' return). John absolutely validates what I have just said in 2:1:8-9. If you do NOT abide in Him & His teachings, you do NOT have eternal life.It really depends on when one is really saved, doesn't it? I mean, "he who endures to the end will be be saved." I think that from that salvation, no one will fall away.
This is the "catch-22" of the OSAS perspective. If they are now FALLEN (not-saved), then they MUST never have been saved in the first place. But that absolutely calls the Bible, a LIE. Because of all of the verses that undeniably speak of "saved-people-who-fall-from-salvation". Do you want the Scriptural quotes again?However, we often put our view of salvation in temporal (time) constraints, and I believe we either are saved or we aren't, and those who are don't fall away.
Remember, I have been "39-years-old", for a couple of years now!If you want. I have gone through each one with you already while you still haven't addressed several I and others have put forth. Just yet ANOTHER question...why make the comparision of spiritual birth to natural birth? One main reason..both only happen once. If they happen more then once you, "crucify Christ again." which according to the bible is WRONG.
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