Once Saved Always Saved??

[lczell]

I am always seeking understanding into the hereneutics of my fellow Christians. How does a Baptist understand these texts which, to others appear to contradict the idea of OSAS?

1 Corinthians 10:1-12 where Paul seems to be warning the Christians about falling away esp. when Paul concludes, Let him that stands take heed lest he fall.

Luke 8:13 IN the middle of Jesus explanation of the Parable of the Sower, he tells that some believe for awhile, but in a time of testing, they fall away.

John 15. If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch....

Romans 8:13 if you live according to the flesh, you will die. (This text is addressed to the believers in Rome and I would argue a text that warns them that if they continue to live a sinful lifestyle, they will perish eternally)

Finally Hebrews 6:4 Paul warns that those who have been believers, if they fall away, cannot even be brought back.

I look forward to your explanations

Thanks much.

 

[Melbelle]

Ok are you asking why we believe OSAS?

This is why I believe it...

Romans 3:23-27

23 since all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 they are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God put forward as an expiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God's righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins; 26 it was to prove at the present time that he himself is righteous and that he justifies him who has faith in Jesus. 27 Then what becomes of our boasting? It is excluded. On what principle? On the principle of works? No, but on the principle of faith.

Romans 6:20-23

20 When you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. 21 But then what return did you get from the things of which you are now ashamed? The end of those things is death. 22 But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the return you get is sanctification and its end, eternal life. 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Ephesians 2:8-9

8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not your own doing, it is the gift of God-- 9 not because of works, lest any man should boast.

John 10:28-29

"I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand" No one, not even myself, can snatch me from the Father's hand.

This last verse actuly explanes it all, there is none that can take me away from God, Just because I backslide doesn't mean I need to be reborn again. Christ only died 1 time so why do I need to be resaved. Salvation is a gift, and a gift is something that is given to you, you can reject it, but you can't get rid of it. It's kinda like this, Your born from your mother and father, you have there blood line, say one day you don't want to be in there family anymore, you want to devorce them, well no matter if you do that or not you still have there DNA right? Well same with God, if you are washed by his blood and have been saved by grace, you have Christs DNA, you are bound for heaven forever. I hope I helped.

 

[ZiSunka]

1 Corinthians 10:1-12 where Paul seems to be warning the Christians about falling away esp. when Paul concludes, Let him that stands take heed lest he fall.

We can fall away, but that doesn't mean we are lost. Lots of people, including myself, have fallen away then returned to the Lord.

Luke 8:13 IN the middle of Jesus explanation of the Parable of the Sower, he tells that some believe for awhile, but in a time of testing, they fall away.

Not everyone's belief is saving faith in Christ. Some people believe because they want something from God or because they think it will impress their friends or because it will put them in a favorable business situation. Those with saving faith persevere and grow. Those who believe to gain something other than salvation will eventually whither and go away because God doesn't give them what they want.

John 15. If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch....

Did you know the original meaning of the word "abide" means to complete a long journey? Those who are unwilling to complete the long journey that God sets in front of us (see Pilgrim's Progress) will be pruned off. It means that person was never a true follwer of Christ because he/she was unwilling to take the journey with Christ. Nowadays, of course, we see the word "abide" and think it means to stay put, but in this context the meaning of completing a long journey makes more sense. In other words, if you are unwilling to follow Christ, you are not a Christian.

Romans 8:13 if you live according to the flesh, you will die. (This text is addressed to the believers in Rome and I would argue a text that warns them that if they continue to live a sinful lifestyle, they will perish eternally)

I know a lot of people who die from living according to the flesh. I know a guy who is dying of AIDS because he wanted to have fun with IV drugs. I know a man who died from a heart attack because he was a glutton and wouldn't watch his diet. I know a woman who died because she weakened her liver with drinking then caught hep B from sleeping around. They all died because they lived according to the flesh. Someone with saving faith in Christ wants to follow his commands and live morally and healthy. If you live according to the flesh, not matter what your mouth says, your life shows that you are not taking that long journey with Christ.

Finally Hebrews 6:4 Paul warns that those who have been believers, if they fall away, cannot even be brought back.

Yes, if you throw away your salvation and never repent, you cannot get your salvation back. These are not people who walk away from Christ for a while, these are people who come to hate Christ and all he teaches and intentionally thumb their noses at him. They come to the point that they can't even remember that they even ever had faith in him. When someone reviles Christ for whatever reason, God honors their decision and doesn't force them back or admit them into heaven because he honors our freewill. A loving God would never MAKE someone go into heaven if they lived their life rejecting and reviling Him.

 

[FreeinChrist]

I am always seeking understanding into the hereneutics of my fellow Christians. How does a Baptist understand these texts which, to others appear to contradict the idea of OSAS?

1 Corinthians 10:1-12 where Paul seems to be warning the Christians about falling away esp. when Paul concludes, Let him that stands take heed lest he fall.

Luke 8:13 IN the middle of Jesus explanation of the Parable of the Sower, he tells that some believe for awhile, but in a time of testing, they fall away.

John 15. If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch....

Romans 8:13 if you live according to the flesh, you will die. (This text is addressed to the believers in Rome and I would argue a text that warns them that if they continue to live a sinful lifestyle, they will perish eternally)

Finally Hebrews 6:4 Paul warns that those who have been believers, if they fall away, cannot even be brought back.

I look forward to your explanations

Thanks much.

Hebrews was written to Hellenistic Jews. Of those Jews, some were truly saved, and some had not yet given up their Judaism. That is why the letter is written (to provide that final copersuation that Jesus is the Christ). It shows how Christ fulfilled the Law, and how He is a priest though born in the tribe of Judah, how he is a high priest, the passover sacrifice, the mediator of a better covenant, and how the tabernacle and the Day of Atonement sacrifice pointed to Christ. The elementary teaching referred to in the beginning of Hebrews 6 is about Judaism - with its ritual washing, Day of Atonement, temple sacrifices - it all pointed to Him. In Hebrews 6:4, we find that there were those, like happens in today's church, that hear the gospel and initially respond. They partake of the Holy Spirit in the corporate worship of beleivers, maybe feeling the tugging of the Holy Spirit. But...and this is the tie-in with the parable of the sower, they have no root. They do not have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. They are not Christ's. And they, in time, reject Christ.

They cannot be saved, because there will be no furthur sacrifice for sin. In other words, if they reject Christ and His sacrifice, they are lost. There will not be another propitiation for sin provided. As it also says in Hebrews:
Hbr 9:28 so Christ also, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time for salvation without {reference to} sin, to those who eagerly await Him.


Living according to the flesh (Romans 8:13), note the portion of the passage that is in bold -

Rom 8:9 However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.

Rom 8:10 If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness.

Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.

Rom 8:12 So then, brethren, we are under obligation, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh--

Rom 8:13 for if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

Rom 8:14 For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.

Do you think that Paul suspects that not everyone who claims to be a Christian is, in fact, a Christian?

So is it a matter that they were saved, and then are not saved? Or that some might not be saved at all?

It might help if you read through Romans and write down the comparisons Paul makes between living in the Spirit and living in the flesh, and it might be clearer, then.

 

[MbiaJc]

Hi Iczell:

Finally Hebrews 6:4 Paul warns that those who have been believers, if they fall away, cannot even be brought back.

This is the only one I will address because if you understand it the others will fall into place for you.

These are to Christanity like the ones Moses sent into the promise land to spy it out. They come in to the Church they see the glories even taste some as the spies ate of the frouit of the promise land. They get a fair knowledge(come to the knowledge of the truth) of it because they have been spying it our. However for what ever reason they determin they can't posess the Church they return to their old way of life(church/religion). By doing so they are denying openly and in their heart the Lord Jesus Christ. And by doing that there is no more sackerfice left for them because they have trampled Jesus sackerfice underfoot. For Jesus said no man comes unto the Father except by Me.

Hope that helps.

 

[MbiaJc]

Sorry I didn't finish my last post before I posted it. The ones In Hebrews are not saved Christians for they never believe in their heart Jesus and never confess Him with their mouth. On the contrary they denounce Him by going back to their old religion.

 

[arunma]

My church believes wholeheartedly in once saved always saved, yet our pastors warn us that we mustn't fall away. The fact is, someone can feel that they've had a spiritual experience with God, and still fall away. Such people were never saved to begin with. It's very important that we don't fall away, because anyone can become an apostate.

 

[Melbelle]

Sometimes I fear that I'm not saved, but the only reason I know I am is because when I backslide and each time I come back to christ he brings me in stronger, I have only backslide 2 times in my life and once was the worst I was really in some terriable things, but God forgave me and now I'm back off the shelf and now on my feet and wanting and tasting his Good grace and love.

 

[arunma]

Sometimes I fear that I'm not saved, but the only reason I know I am is because when I backslide and each time I come back to christ he brings me in stronger, I have only backslide 2 times in my life and once was the worst I was really in some terriable things, but God forgave me and now I'm back off the shelf and now on my feet and wanting and tasting his Good grace and love.

Well the point of OSAS theology is that we have an assurance of salvation. Of course you should never backslide, because backsliding leads to hell. But it always helps to remember that so long as you have faith in Christ, he will give you the grace you need so that you will not backslide. Remember, Paul writes that God will never test you beyond what you can bear (I can find the reference, if you want).

 

[Melbelle]

Well the reason I backslid was because I was rapped and I felt dirty and uncleaned. When something like that happends to you, its like you feel worthless. But after I started getting into drugs and alchole and sex to ease the pain (so I thought) my mom had found me one day past out on my bed room floor, coming down off of Extasy. I had a lady talk to me about her past and through her story I repented and knew what I was doing was wrong and knew that it wasn't my fault that I was rapped. Through much counsaling and prayer I am who I am today. Through all of that I got pregnant out of wedlock, got married to the father and I believe God gave me my Seth to help me see right, I have done a compleat 180 just within this last year. I wish you could see the joy in my heart for the lord right now, I'm so onfire for him I just want to shout it to the world.

 

[arunma]

Well the reason I backslid was because I was rapped and I felt dirty and uncleaned. When something like that happends to you, its like you feel worthless. But after I started getting into drugs and alchole and sex to ease the pain (so I thought) my mom had found me one day past out on my bed room floor, coming down off of Extasy. I had a lady talk to me about her past and through her story I repented and knew what I was doing was wrong and knew that it wasn't my fault that I was rapped. Through much counsaling and prayer I am who I am today. Through all of that I got pregnant out of wedlock, got married to the father and I believe God gave me my Seth to help me see right, I have done a compleat 180 just within this last year. I wish you could see the joy in my heart for the lord right now, I'm so onfire for him I just want to shout it to the world.

Wow, that story clearly shows God's work in your life. I'm glad to hear that you've relied on God, and that his grace has sustained you. After such hardships, many people become hardened against God. But I can see that God does indeed dwell in the faithful.

 

[Melbelle]

Wow, that story clearly shows God's work in your life. I'm glad to hear that you've relied on God, and that his grace has sustained you. After such hardships, many people become hardened against God. But I can see that God does indeed dwell in the faithful.

It hasn't been easy but it is getting easier. I never blamed God becaue I know that we as human have a free will and it wasn't Gods fault that some men are pigs so he doesn't deserve to be blamed.

 

[FreeinChrist]

Well the reason I backslid was because I was rapped and I felt dirty and uncleaned. When something like that happends to you, its like you feel worthless. But after I started getting into drugs and alchole and sex to ease the pain (so I thought) my mom had found me one day past out on my bed room floor, coming down off of Extasy. I had a lady talk to me about her past and through her story I repented and knew what I was doing was wrong and knew that it wasn't my fault that I was rapped. Through much counsaling and prayer I am who I am today. Through all of that I got pregnant out of wedlock, got married to the father and I believe God gave me my Seth to help me see right, I have done a compleat 180 just within this last year. I wish you could see the joy in my heart for the lord right now, I'm so onfire for him I just want to shout it to the world.

I'm sorry you were raped, and that you felt dirty from it. It is never the woman's fault, and the shame belongs to the person who did the crime. I wish our society did a better job of making that clear.
I am glad that you have Christ, and the joy that Christ gives. From the picture of your child, he looks like a real cutie! He is certainly a gift from God, whether you were married or not. And through him, it seems that God worked His will - is this right?

 

[SumTinWong]

Well the reason I backslid was because I was rapped and I felt dirty and uncleaned. When something like that happends to you, its like you feel worthless. But after I started getting into drugs and alchole and sex to ease the pain (so I thought) my mom had found me one day past out on my bed room floor, coming down off of Extasy. I had a lady talk to me about her past and through her story I repented and knew what I was doing was wrong and knew that it wasn't my fault that I was rapped. Through much counsaling and prayer I am who I am today. Through all of that I got pregnant out of wedlock, got married to the father and I believe God gave me my Seth to help me see right, I have done a compleat 180 just within this last year. I wish you could see the joy in my heart for the lord right now, I'm so onfire for him I just want to shout it to the world.

Awesome testimony of God's grace and mercy in a young persons life!!! Yay God!!! And by the way I am happy for you that your life has turned around, and that you are now following God's will for your life!

 

[Melbelle]

I'm sorry you were raped, and that you felt dirty from it. It is never the woman's fault, and the shame belongs to the person who did the crime. I wish our society did a better job of making that clear.
I am glad that you have Christ, and the joy that Christ gives. From the picture of your child, he looks like a real cutie! He is certainly a gift from God, whether you were married or not. And through him, it seems that God worked His will - is this right?

Yes this is right. I don't normaly like to share this part in my life but here lately God has made it easier to share.

 

[ZiSunka]

You're safe with us Melissa. Almost all of us have something in our pasts that we could be shamed over, but we pretty much have an unspoken agreement that what God has forgiven, we forgive, too. No one will hold anything you've told us against you.

 

[Melbelle]

You're safe with us Melissa. Almost all of us have something in our pasts that we could be shamed over, but we pretty much have an unspoken agreement that what God has forgiven, we forgive, too. No one will hold anything you've told us against you.

Thats one reason why I'm baptist

 

[benlym]

If your truly born of God.. you will hear him call his sheep and his sheep listen.
I was gone total opposite of what God intended for me. I got into drugs, alchohol, sex etc.. but then one day when i was tottally tottally opposite of Gods will something made me read the bible as I felt drugs no longer gave me true peace and I longed for true peace. When I read it, it reflected my life more than 100%, and i heard the spirit of truth convicting me of Sin and to change my ways.. Now I back in church... I still struggle with the wicked one trying to bring me down.. but All I can do is repent and refrain from sins I can avoid and ask the lord for help... I trust by faith he will do the rest.. he is more than minfull we are dust...

 

[Lockheed]

Rom 8:35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or danger, or sword?

Rom 8:36 As it is written, "For your sake we are being killed all the day long; we are regarded as sheep to be slaughtered."

Rom 8:37 No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us.

Rom 8:38 For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers,

Rom 8:39 nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[Aaiden]

Have some reps for plain straightforward scripture.