Once Saved Always Saved??

[Melbelle]

Rom 8:35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or danger, or sword?

Rom 8:36 As it is written, "For your sake we are being killed all the day long; we are regarded as sheep to be slaughtered."

Rom 8:37 No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us.

Rom 8:38 For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers,

Rom 8:39 nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[9-iron]

John 10:28-29

"I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand" No one, not even myself, can snatch me from the Father's hand.

I am only going to list this verse. The other verses you listed speak of salvation as a gift. Let me ask you this question, can a gift be accepted and then given back or returned?

Looking at this verse I have to ask another question. Could Christ, when speaking this be looking into eternity. By that I mean, could He be seeing the ones that get through life without ever giving the gift back so to speak.

Could this verse relate to a time when we are all in Heaven and safe and secure for eternity? The verse opens with 'I give them eternal life...'. Could the context of this text relate to us once we get to Heaven. Those that never returned the gift.

I don't have a strong opinion on this issue. To be honest, the whole issues causes me stress.. However, I have to ask these questions for the sake of clarity.

 

[Melbelle]

Well I had just found out where I got that verse at someone must have put those words in there so I'll get it from the bible next time it says it everything but "No one, not even myself, can snatch me from the Father's hand." that part, Your right after I read the verse for myself in the bible it doesn't say that, but I do believe that you can give salvation back, you can throw it away but that isn't going around sinning that is telling God you do not want his kingdom you do not want to be in his light and his grace. Its not telling a lie or having Sex out of wedlock.

 

[Lockheed]

Did Christ die for Christian sins? (Does His blood cover the sins we commit as Christians?) Or does he 'take the gift back' everytime we fail to meet the expectations of God? If not, why not?

If keeping my salvation was up to me, if maintaining it was mine to accomplish, I realize that I would already feel the fires of hell consuming me. But we must, like Paul cry out to God "what a wretched man I am! Who will save me from the body of this death?" Obviously the answer is not "I will do it myself." In fact, Romans 8:1 tells us the answer: "Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus."

The Bible says that Christ is at the right hand of the Father interceding on behalf of the saints. (Rom 8:34) The Bible also says the Spirit intercedes for us as well. (Rom 8:27) Can man undo what two parts of the Trinity are interceding to accomplish?

Not only this, but it is because of His intercession that He is able to save us completely!

Hebrews 7:25
Therefore He is able also to save forever those who draw near to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them.
​

Does God adopt us into His family and then turn around and kick us out?

John 6:37-39
All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out. For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day.
​

All that the Father gives to the Son will come to the Son. Those who come to Him He will not cast out. The will of God is that Christ lose none of those the Father gives Him.

Does Christ ever fail to accomplish the Father's will?

Take comfort in this sinners! (Me included!) That Christ, our high priest and intercessor will not fail to accomplish the task which God the Father has set before Him!

Must we run the race with diligence? Yes! But not in order to earn the prize, but to lay hold of that prize already prepared for us on Calvary by faith alone in the work of Christ alone.

What of those who do fall away, and repudiate the faith? John tells us all about them:

1 John 2:19
They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, so that it would be shown that they all are not of us.
​

 

[Joshua J. Daigle]

To me, it's a really simple concept. Once I asked God to come into my life, I was saved, right then and there. If I chose at some time later down the road to walk away from my gift of salvation, and live sinfully without repentence, then I will be judged on his day of return. But just because I sin in a moment of weakness, dosen't mean that my gift of salvation is revoked. It is always there for me as long as I go to God and sincerly ask forgiveness of my sins. I think alot of people have a misconception, that OSAS gives you a free license to do whatever you please without fear of repremand, which is simply not true.

Joshua

 

[9-iron]

In fact, Romans 8:1 tells us the answer: "Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus."

Good scripture. You make some very valid points. What if someone determined in their heart that the saving grace they experienced was just emotional. Suppose this person after being saved for years decided they were going through a rough stretch of live when they made a decision. Then they decided to no longer accept Christ. I am talking about someone truly devouted to the Lord.

Could this verse pertain to those truly devouted to Christ and under His headship? Can we be 'in' Christ, but then choose to step 'out' of Christ and not follow Him?

The issue have boiled down to do we have the free will to reject salvation and the grace of Christ after we accept it?

 

[Ave Maria]

I'm not sure if what I believe could be qualified as once saved always saved or not. I basically believe that as long as one remains in having faith with Christ they will remain saved. However, if one willingly gives up their faith in Christ and willingly gives up salvation then I do not believe God will force them to keep their state of salvation. The reason is because of free will.

 

[Lockheed]

To me, it's a really simple concept. Once I asked God to come into my life, I was saved, right then and there. If I chose at some time later down the road to walk away from my gift of salvation, and live sinfully without repentence, then I will be judged on his day of return.

So Christ's death didn't pay for your sin of turning away? Or is there a one-to-one relationship between sin and repentance so that I must repent for each and every sin I commit or face condemnation?

Again, it is Christ who "seeks and saves the lost", not we who "sought and chose" God to "come into our life". It was God's idea to save us, not our idea to get saved. Thus it is God who upholds our salvation and seals us with the Holy Spirit.

The term used for "seal" in Ephesians indicates a stamp of ownership or posession. Like a king who seals a letter with his stamp, God seals the believers with His Spirit. This letter, so-to-speak, is addressed to Christ, and He alone has the power and authority to read/open it. When one truly trusts in Christ they are Christ's. If anyone does not have the Spirit dwelling in them, they are not of Christ. (Romans 8:10) But if one has the Spirit of Christ, they are sealed in Christ by the Father, the whole Trinity then is working together to bring about our salvation.

But just because I sin in a moment of weakness, dosen't mean that my gift of salvation is revoked. It is always there for me as long as I go to God and sincerly ask forgiveness of my sins.

Again, this seems to indicate a 1-to-1 relationship between sin and forgiveness. What happens if you die with unconfessed sin, are you condemned?

The believer's life is one of continual repentance, that is, acknowledging their unworthiness and sinfulness in the sight of God and continually turning (repenting) to Christ alone for their salvation.

I think alot of people have a misconception, that OSAS gives you a free license to do whatever you please without fear of repremand, which is simply not true.

Perhaps there are people who believe that, but the response is not to make a connection between sin and repentance that requires believers to do something to stay saved.

How do you know that you're saved, now? How do you know that you haven't grievously sinned against God and "walk(ed) away from my gift of salvation"? How do you undo that which God alone can do?

 

[Lockheed]

The issue have boiled down to do we have the free will to reject salvation and the grace of Christ after we accept it?

Can we not believe the promises of Scripture? Can my "free will" seperate me from the love of God in Christ? Can my sins seperate me from God when Christ by His blood has paid for them and receonciled me to God?

Can what Adam did by transgressing in the Garden be undone by our efforts or even our faith? Or is it the work of the Triune God that brings about salvation in us? Does our faith receive Christ's work or complete it in some manner?

Remeber that grace is unmerited (even DEmerited) favor. We didn't earn grace through faith, it was grace that we could even believe in the first place.

I think a distinction between true, saving faith and false faith which does not last is important here. The parable of the soils comes to mind.

 

[Lockheed]

I'm not sure if what I believe could be qualified as once saved always saved or not. I basically believe that as long as one remains in having faith with Christ they will remain saved. However, if one willingly gives up their faith in Christ and willingly gives up salvation then I do not believe God will force them to keep their state of salvation. The reason is because of free will.

How often have you "given up" your faith? How often has your faith wavered?

Is, or is not Christ able to "save forever" those who draw near through Him? Remember it is because Christ is interceding on our behalf that we are saved.

Do you believe Christ's intercession can fail? Does Christ ever fail to accomplish the Father's will?

 

[SteveR2021]

Well I may be the only one who does NOT believe in OSAS (once saved always saved)...i hope i won't be branded a heretic.

The Bible is very clear that we cannot be 'snatched away' but we can most certainly reject the faith. That I believe is the unforgiveable sin. Most of us have experienced times where we either backslid or struggled with sin - but there was always a guilty conscience. But if we keep rejecting God and living in our sin we eventually become so hardened that we no longer want God - we 'lose' our salvation (more accurately we reject our salvation)...but this whole concept is (I believe) erroneous. We make salvation sound like a magical transaction...we receive a ticket and we need only show up at the pearly gates and we'll be admitted entrance.

We are forgiven when we repent of our sins and turn to God. If we go back into our sin we are worse off than before. There is always forgiveness this side of heaven but if we continue to live in our sin our hearts will eventually get so hardened that we will no longer seek his forgiveness. God's grace can be accepted and/or rejected. Just because we accepted it once doesn't mean we cannot later reject it.

Some food for thought...

Yours in Christ,

Stephen

 

[MbiaJc]

Can we not believe the promises of Scripture? Can my "free will" seperate me from the love of God in Christ? Can my sins seperate me from God when Christ by His blood has paid for them and receonciled me to God?

Can what Adam did by transgressing in the Garden be undone by our efforts or even our faith? Or is it the work of the Triune God that brings about salvation in us? Does our faith receive Christ's work or complete it in some manner?

Remeber that grace is unmerited (even DEmerited) favor. We didn't earn grace through faith, it was grace that we could even believe in the first place.

I think a distinction between true, saving faith and false faith which does not last is important here. The parable of the soils comes to mind.

It is not our faith that saves us it is the faith of Jesus Christ. We are saved by (the grace of God) through the (faith of Jesus Christ).
Eph 3:12 In whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of him. All that is required of us is to believe in our heart and confess with our mouth.
Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

It is all the work of God. Man has nothing he can boast about. Except the Love of the Father and the love of Jesus Christ, for us his Church, and what He has done for us His body.

 

[Joshua J. Daigle]

No, Lockheed, I don't believe that I must do something to continually be saved. If I die with unconfessed sin I'm sure God will take into consideration the nature of my sin. After all, God understands us better than anyone. My belief is that just because you were saved at one point in your life dosen't mean that you are always guarenteed salvation. And that's not to say that God dosen't have the power to keep me eternally saved, for God can accomplish anything. But I think that one must do their best to repent of their sins when commited so that they may stand as blameless as possible before God. I've grown a bit leary of the OSAS theory because it tends to make people, in my opinion, a bit careless with their salvation. I may be wrong, but I think it's wreckless to assume that once you have been "saved forever", that there is nothing that YOU can do to lose your salvation. Like I said earlier, sinning in a moment of weakness won't be the key factor in determining whether or not you go to Hell. Continual sinning, and choosing to ignore the consequences of that sin, even AFTER you have been saved will not gain you admittance into Heaven. Remember, even Judas was a righteous man at one point.

Joshua

 

[bloodofthelamb12]

It can truly be said that Baptists believe that once a soul is saved, it cannot be lost again (1 Peter 2:25 - more2come); however, it must also be said that we believe that once a soul is truly saved, it is forever changed (Rom 6:1,2). We believe "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved." (Rom 10:9)

We believe that there are those whom men will count as members of the Church on earth that God will reject in heaven. These are the branches that bear no fruit. These are the weeds sown beside good seed, awaiting the day of their destruction. It is of these that Christ spoke the parable in Matthew 13:24-30.

Consider David; a sinful, human shepherd who saved his strayed sheep from wild beasts by the power of God. What then is God if He, to, is a Shepher? If by God's power, David became a great shepherd, How much greater a shepherd is God? If David did not lose His sheep, than surely God will deliver His? Of course He will!

Baptists do not believe that salvation is gained by our works.
Baptists do not believe that salvation can exist independently of works.
Baptists believe that works are a natural expression of salvation (Luke 6:45)

definetly needing sleep...
Caleb

btw - if my train of thought has jumped the tracks PM me about it, plz. I'll change it tomorrow. I'm to dang drained to do anything else tonite/day/whatever.....................................zzzzzzz...... (God bless)

 

[Lockheed]

Well I may be the only one who does NOT believe in OSAS (once saved always saved)...i hope i won't be branded a heretic.

I hate to repeat myself, but it seems folks are posting without reading previous posts. Can you answer the following questions?

The Bible is very clear that we cannot be 'snatched away' but we can most certainly reject the faith.

Did not Christ's death pay for your sin of turning away?

That I believe is the unforgiveable sin.

Please show how the "unforgiveable sin" mentioned in Scripture is equal to your "rejecting the faith" since Christ Himself explains that it is calling that which is a work of God, the work of Satan.

Most of us have experienced times where we either backslid or struggled with sin - but there was always a guilty conscience.

Ok... so a guilty conscience does what? How does my having a guilty conscience save me in one case but my lack of it damns me in another?

But if we keep rejecting God and living in our sin we eventually become so hardened that we no longer want God - we 'lose' our salvation (more accurately we reject our salvation)...but this whole concept is (I believe) erroneous.

Well that's what we're discussing. Please review my previous posts and attempt to answer the questions therein.

We make salvation sound like a magical transaction...we receive a ticket and we need only show up at the pearly gates and we'll be admitted entrance.

Salvation is not something we do at all, it is a work of God. Is it your position that God will fail to save some whom He begins work in?

Do you believe salvation is a one-time transaction where you're "saved" at the moment of faith, or is salvation something God does in you over time? (Search the Scriptures for "being saved".)

We are forgiven when we repent of our sins and turn to God. If we go back into our sin we are worse off than before. There is always forgiveness this side of heaven but if we continue to live in our sin our hearts will eventually get so hardened that we will no longer seek his forgiveness.

I dunno about you, but the more I understand of God, the more sinful I realize I actually am. What does "continue to live in our sin" mean and how does it differ from the experience of the average believer who sins in thought and deed on a daily basis?

God's grace can be accepted and/or rejected.

What is your definition of grace then? If I have to do something to get grace, is it still grace?

Just because we accepted it once doesn't mean we cannot later reject it.

Some food for thought...

So let me see if I understand... God begins to work to save us, sends His Spirit into us, begins to sanctify us and we can simply reject it and walk away at any time?

Doesn't anyone else see the problems here?

 

[Lockheed]

No, Lockheed, I don't believe that I must do something to continually be saved. If I die with unconfessed sin I'm sure God will take into consideration the nature of my sin.

I'm not sure I understand... help me here.

Did Christ's death pay for your sins?

Does your confession pay for sins?

Does some payment remain needed after you die?

What then does confession do?

After all, God understands us better than anyone. My belief is that just because you were saved at one point in your life dosen't mean that you are always guarenteed salvation.

The Bible however states that "there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus". Those who are "in Christ" are saved by Christ's work, never their own.

Only if we view salvation as a work of our own, or something we get through our cooperation or efforts does it become something we can lose. Please explain what part we play in our salvation and how it comes about that we can do that part.

And that's not to say that God dosen't have the power to keep me eternally saved, for God can accomplish anything. But I think that one must do their best to repent of their sins when commited so that they may stand as blameless as possible before God.

This idea that repentance pays for sin... am I misunderstanding you? Please explain what you're trying to say.

The Bible teaches that in order to be saved one must "be perfect as the Father in heaven is perfect". This is the standard of God's Law.

No amount of repentance will make one 'perfect', no amount of penance will make one 'perfect', THIS is why Christ had to come, live a perfect life and die in our stead so that by faith and not efforts of our own we could be saved.

The Bible tells us that Christ "saves forever" those who draw near through Him, and that He'll lose none of those the Father gives Him. What good shepherd loses a sheep?

We are like sheep, prone to wander, but Christ promises to look after His flock and "save His people from their sins."

I've grown a bit leary of the OSAS theory because it tends to make people, in my opinion, a bit careless with their salvation. I may be wrong, but I think it's wreckless to assume that once you have been "saved forever"...

I'm not talking about "OSAS", I'm talking about God supplying perserverance to His saints that they walk in accordance with His will unto the end. On this basis (faith in Christ's finished work) therefore there is assurance of being "saved forever" for it is what the Bible teaches.

Christ came to seek and save the lost, not seek, save, lose, save, lose, save, lose...

Please explain what the intercession of Christ and the Holy Spirit does for the believer.

...that there is nothing that YOU can do to lose your salvation.

Explain the passage in John then where he states that those who leave the body and fall away "were not of us". Does Christ not know those who are His?

Like I said earlier, sinning in a moment of weakness won't be the key factor in determining whether or not you go to Hell. Continual sinning, and choosing to ignore the consequences of that sin, even AFTER you have been saved will not gain you admittance into Heaven.

Do you not know what Christ commands? "Be ye perfect!"
How you doin'?

Perhaps your definition of "saved" needs adjustment. I wouldn't call someone who, after hearing the Gospel, and claiming to have faith in Christ and yet denies that faith to be "saved". Do you believe that the Holy Spirit comes to reside in such a person?

Remember, even Judas was a righteous man at one point.

No, Judas was never "righteous" as God demands. True righteousness is found only in Christ through faith in Him. Just because Judas was numbered among the Apostles, and hung out with Jesus for years, doesn't mean he was ever 'saved'. In fact Jesus says, in a prayer to the Father, "I've lost none... except the son of perdition..."

Judas was hand-selected by God to fulfill the prophecies and establish His plan on the earth.

 

[Lockheed]

It is not our faith that saves us it is the faith of Jesus Christ. We are saved by (the grace of God) through the (faith of Jesus Christ).
Eph 3:12 In whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of him. All that is required of us is to believe in our heart and confess with our mouth.
Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

No. The Bible is clear on this, we are not saved by the faith "of" Christ, but by our faith, which while a gift of God, remains "our faith".

Hense it is written "Abraham believed God...", it doesn't say Jesus believed God for Abraham.

It is all the work of God. Man has nothing he can boast about. Except the Love of the Father and the love of Jesus Christ, for us his Church, and what He has done for us His body.

With this I agree.

 

[MbiaJc]

[QUOTE

=Lockheed][/size]

No. The Bible is clear on this, we are not saved by the faith "of" Christ, but by our faith, which while a gift of God, remains "our faith".

Eph 3:12 In whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of him


Well then I say you don't know your bible then.


Eph. 3:12 is clear enough for a old country boy like me. That it is His faith and not mine. That has gained me the access to come boldy with confidence to the Father.

Hense it is written "Abraham believed God...", it doesn't say Jesus believed God for Abraham.

No it doesn't however you forget that Aberham told his son "God will provide the lamb." Aberham was saved the same way we are, he was looking to the cross while we are looking back at the cross.

I figured you woild disagree, however I thought you would come up with something besides a lame duck.

May God Bless: MbiaJc

 

[Lockheed]

No it doesn't however you forget that Aberham told his son "God will provide the lamb." Aberham was saved the same way we are, he was looking to the cross while we are looking back at the cross.

I fully, completely, completely agree (and say a hearty amen!) ... however , I don't follow why you believe it is "Christ's faith" that saves rather than our faith in His work (which is a gift of God none-the-less.)

How abouts you explain it to me, rather than me try to attack a position I'm unclear on.

I figured you woild disagree, however I thought you would come up with something besides a lame duck.

May God Bless: MbiaJc

Well my duck may need crutches... but I think I'm right. I've been wrong before though.

 

[SonOfThunder]

Salvation is subject to so much such as believing that Jesus is God. I have been told that if I dont grasp that I cannot be saved and I have a different Jesus. Salvation is not mine in that case.

Should it be mine it then depends on endurance to the end. If I trun my back on God and go with my flesh or worldly ways how can I expect salvation? I know I am blatently disobeying God and all through the OT we see pictures of disobedience and the results.

James