Once Saved Always Saved - Why is it so hard?

[stuart lawrence]

Also, I have explained every verse you have put forth within this thread.



....

Please FULLY explain the following:

If while we seek to be justified in Christ it becomes EVIDENT that we ourselves are sinners, DOES THIS MEAN THAT CHRIST PROMOTES SIN?
Absolutely not! If i rebuild what I destroyed I prove i am a lawbreaker
Gal2:16&17

Please explain the above, including why Paul asks the question:
Does Christ promote sin?

I'm sure you cannot properly explain it. Prove me wrong, and I will admit I was wrong

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I really liked the points Hatguy made and I was looking forward to what you were going to say in response. Is there any insight that you have that could shed some light on the subject he brought up? I agree with him about how we're told that we need the Spirit to be saved and to defeat sin. Whenever I struggle with a sin, I'm told "You're not defeating that sin because you're trying to do it in the flesh! You need to let the Spirit handle it!" So if I go about it that way, however it's defined, and still don't overcome a sin, then what? Am I to conclude that I'm not saved? It's one of those circular reasonings that make me dizzy after awhile.

Jesus said with God all things are possible. This would include overcoming sin. Yes, the Scriptures repeatedly condemn living in certain kinds of sins (Regardless of whether one is a believer in Jesus or not).

In fact, you cannot read the Scriptures without shortly running into a verse that clearly refutes OSAS or the belief that says, "Sin Does Not Separate A Believer From God." Here is a super long list of verses refuting OSAS (if you are truly interested).

Spoiler

Long List of Verses Refuting OSAS (Once Saved Always Saved):

• Matthew 7:21-23 - Jesus only “knows” those who do Father God’s will; all others are practicing lawlessness.

• Matthew 10:33 - Whoever denies Jesus before men He will also deny before His Father in heaven.

• Matthew 12:31-32 - Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven. This means verbally cursing or speaking bad about the Holy Spirit.

• Matthew 13:18-23 - 2 people types (no root, unfruitful) come to eternal life, and then return to the lost state.

• Matthew 18:21-35, Mark 11:25-26 - Forgive men’s sins against you, or God won’t forgive your sins against Him.

• Matthew 25:44-46 - Those who do not help even one needy soul will go into everlasting punishment.

• Mark 8:35-36 - Whoever desires to save his (old) life, or gain the whole world, will lose his soul.

• Mark 9:43-48 - Get rid of whatever causes you to sin; it will cause you to be cast into hell fire.

• Mark 13:13 - But he who endures with his faith to the end (of his life) shall be saved eternally (Also see Matthew 10:22, Matthew 24:13, Colossians 1:22-23, 1 Timothy 4:16, Hebrews 10:35-39, Revelation 2:10)

• Luke 9:23-25 - Whoever does not deny himself for Jesus’ sake will be destroyed (eternal death).

• Luke 14:26-33 - Jesus warns prospective believers how difficult and costly it is to be His disciple… will they have enough to finish this life of placing Him above all else, bearing their crosses, etc.?

• Luke 18:9-14 - Jesus taught that the man who was more justified was the one who humbled himself and cried out to God for mercy before God vs. the man who did not do so.

• John 3:19, 20 - An important point about "The Condemnation" is that those who loved darkness hate the Light because they loved the pleasure of their own evil deeds, unless of course their deeds should be reproved (that is).

• John 12:25 - He who loves his life in this world will lose it (eternal life) later.

• John 15:1-6 - Christians who do not bear fruit (are not abiding in Jesus) are thrown into the fire.

• John 17:3 - Eternal life is actually “knowing” Father God and Jesus Christ. Do you really know them?

• Romans 1:29-32 - Anyone practicing such sins is deserving of death due to God’s wrath on unrighteousness.

• Romans 2:5-11 - Wrath is coming to those who are unrighteously self-seeking and do not obey the truth.

• Rom 6:15-23 - Be a slave of God and to righteousness for holiness, resulting in holiness and eternal life.

• Romans 8:1-8 - Anyone who is carnally-minded (is living according to the flesh) will die spiritually.

• Romans 8:12-13 - We are not debtors to the flesh; if we live according to the flesh, we will die.

• Romans 11:20-22 - Fear unbelief, that if you do not continue to have faith, you will be cut off like the OT Jews.

• 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 - Anyone practicing such sins is unrighteous, and will not inherit the kingdom of God.

• 1 Corinthians 15:2 - You are saved, if you hold fast to that word (the gospel) … unless you believed in vain.

• 2 Corinthians 7:10 - Godly sorrow over sin leads Christians to repent, which leads to salvation.

• 2 Corinthians 13:5 - Examine and test yourself to see if you are in the faith, unless you are disqualified.

• Galatians 5:1-4 - Christians are warned: those who later have attempted to be justified by law, … have been estranged from Christ and have fallen from grace.

• Galatians 5:19-21 - Anyone practicing such sins (the works of the flesh) will not inherit the kingdom of God.

• Galatians 5:24 - Those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.

• Galatians 6:7-8 - Don't be deceived: sowing to the flesh reaps corruption, sowing to the Spirit reaps eternal life.

• Ephesians 5:3-6 - Believers practicing such sins will not inherit God’s kingdom, but will incur the wrath of God.

• Ephesians 5:25-27 - Jesus gave Himself for a glorious Church which will be sanctified, holy, without blemish.

• Philippians 2:12-16 - Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, holding fast the word of life …
  … so that: (1) you may become blameless, and (2) Paul did not labor in vain concerning you.

• Philippians 3:7-14 - Paul presses on to attaining the goal of gaining Christ, knowing Him, and being found in Him.

• Colossians 1:21-29 - Jesus’ desires (and Paul labors to warn and teach) to present “holy and blameless” and “perfect in Christ Jesus” those who continue in faith, not moved away from the hope of the gospel.

• Colossians 3:5-6 - Believers practicing such sins beware: the wrath of God will come upon sons of disobedience.

• 1 Timothy 4:1 - Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith.

• 1 Timothy 5:11-15 - Some younger widows are condemned; they cast off their first faith and turned after Satan.

• 1 Timothy 6:3-4 - Paul says that if any man teaches contrary to the words of Jesus and the doctrine of Christ is proud knowing nothing.

• 1 Timothy 6:9-14 - Greed and love of money drowns men in destruction and perdition; Instead, pursue godliness and lay hold on eternal life (and keep this command without blame).

• 1 Timothy 6:17-19 - Commands for the rich (yes, Christians) to follow, so they may lay hold on eternal life.

• Titus 1:1-3 - Faith and knowledge of the truth lead to godliness, in the hope of eternal life.

• Hebrews 2:1-4 - Warning about drifting away: how shall we escape, if we drift and neglect so great a salvation?

• Hebrews 3:6 - We belong to Christ, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm to the end.

• Hebrews 3:12-15 - Beware of an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God, being hardened through the deceitfulness of sin, for we are only partakers of Christ if we hold steadfast to the end.

• Hebrews 3:17-19 - The OT Jews who sinned (did not obey) could not enter into God’s rest (the Promised Land).

• Hebrews 4:1 - Let us fear lest any of us come short of entering God’s rest (God’s promise of salvation).

• Hebrews 4:11 - Be diligent to enter into that rest, lest anyone fall according to the OT example of disobedience.

• Hebrews 6:4-8 - Those enlightened and partakers of the Holy Spirit who fall away will be rejected and burned.

• Hebrews 10:26-27 - If we sin willfully after receiving knowledge of the truth, expect God’s fiery judgment.

• Hebrews 10:29-31 - The Lord will judge His people. “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay”, says the Lord.

• Hebrews 10:35-39 - Endure in the faith, and do not be like those who draw back to perdition.

• Hebrews 12:14-15 - Pursue holiness (without which no one will see the Lord) lest anyone falls short of God’s grace.

• Hebrews 12:15-17 - Many believers become defiled, and finding no place for repentance, are rejected.

• James 1:12-16 - Love the Lord, endure temptation to sin; do not be deceived, sin results in spiritual death.

• 1 Peter 1:8-9 - Believing, you will receive the end of your (enduring) faith—the salvation of your souls.

• 2 Peter 1:10-11 - Be diligent to make your call & election sure, so you won’t stumble, but gain the kingdom.

• 2 Peter 2:1, 14 - The false prophets (i.e. believers) are those who have eyes full of adultery and cannot cease from sin.

• 2 Peter 2:20-22 - If Christians are overcome by worldly sins, they are worse off than they were before knowing the way of righteousness, they turned from the holy commandment delivered to them.

• 1 John 1:9 - If we confess our sins, God will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

• 1 John 2:3-5 - We are sure that we “know” God and are “in” Him, if we keep His commandments.

• 1 John 2:24-25 - If God’s word does not abide in us, the Father and the Son will not abide in us, nor we in Them, and we will not receive the promised eternal life.

• 1 John 3:15 - If you hate your brother, you’re like a murderer who has no eternal life abiding in him.

• Jude 1:4 NIV - There are those false believers who turn the grace of our God into a license for immorality

• Jude 1:20-21 - 3 things for Christians to do, while looking for God’s mercy unto eternal life.

• Revelation 2:10 - Be faithful until death and Jesus will give you the crown of (eternal) life (Also see Mark 13:13 above).

• Revelation 2:11 - He who overcomes shall not be hurt by the second death (eternal death).

• Revelation 3:5 - He who overcomes will not have his name blotted out from the Book of Life.

• Revelation 14:9-11 - Those that worship the Beast and take his mark drink of the wine of the Wrath of God and will be thrown in the Lake of Fire.

• Revelation 21:8 - Anyone practicing such sins will go into the lake of fire, which is the second death.

• Revelation 21:27 - Anyone practicing such sins is not in the Book of Life, and will not enter the New Jerusalem.

• Revelation 22:14 - Anyone who does not do God’s commandments does not have the right to the tree of life.

• Revelation 22:15 - Anyone practicing such sins will be outside the gates of the New Jerusalem.

• Revelation 22:18 - If any man takes away from the prophecy of the book (i.e. the Scriptures), God will take away their name out of the Book of Life.

Source:
Your handy-dandy long list of verses against OSAS

...

 

[stuart lawrence]

Sins that do not lead unto death are minor transgressions or faults.
When I say that a believer holds to the idea that they can sin and still be saved, I am talking about serious sins that lead unto death.



Minor transgressions is not the same as serious sins. Murder, hate, theft, adultery, coveting, and idolatry are really serious and wrong. They violate the moral law and hurt your neighbor.



...

So coveting I a serious sin and will send you to hell if you commit it, for it transgresses the moral law and is a serious, not a minor sin.

I'm sure you are aware that impure thoughts are coveting.
So in your view, anyone who has an impure thought I condemned to hell?

I wonder how many in this thread would agree with you.

I know of christian counsellors who spend much time with people who believed coveting would send them to hell when they became christians. They became consumed by all manner of concupiscence

Your comment aptly proves you do NOT understand the core gospel message Paul preached. And sadly, young christians who may believe you will probably find a nightmare follows

 

[Aldebaran]

Jesus said with God all things are possible. This would include overcoming sin. Yes, the Scriptures repeatedly condemn living in certain kinds of sins (Regardless of whether one is a believer in Jesus or not).

In fact, you cannot read the Scriptures without shortly running into a verse that clearly refutes OSAS or the belief that says, "Sin Does Not Separate A Believer From God." Here is a super long list of verses refuting OSAS (if you are truly interested).

Spoiler

Long List of Verses Refuting OSAS (Once Saved Always Saved):

• Matthew 7:21-23 - Jesus only “knows” those who do Father God’s will; all others are practicing lawlessness.

• Matthew 10:33 - Whoever denies Jesus before men He will also deny before His Father in heaven.

• Matthew 12:31-32 - Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven. This means verbally cursing or speaking bad about the Holy Spirit.

• Matthew 13:18-23 - 2 people types (no root, unfruitful) come to eternal life, and then return to the lost state.

• Matthew 18:21-35, Mark 11:25-26 - Forgive men’s sins against you, or God won’t forgive your sins against Him.

• Matthew 25:44-46 - Those who do not help even one needy soul will go into everlasting punishment.

• Mark 8:35-36 - Whoever desires to save his (old) life, or gain the whole world, will lose his soul.

• Mark 9:43-48 - Get rid of whatever causes you to sin; it will cause you to be cast into hell fire.

• Mark 13:13 - But he who endures with his faith to the end (of his life) shall be saved eternally (Also see Matthew 10:22, Matthew 24:13, Colossians 1:22-23, 1 Timothy 4:16, Hebrews 10:35-39, Revelation 2:10)

• Luke 9:23-25 - Whoever does not deny himself for Jesus’ sake will be destroyed (eternal death).

• Luke 14:26-33 - Jesus warns prospective believers how difficult and costly it is to be His disciple… will they have enough to finish this life of placing Him above all else, bearing their crosses, etc.?

• Luke 18:9-14 - Jesus taught that the man who was more justified was the one who humbled himself and cried out to God for mercy before God vs. the man who did not do so.

• John 3:19, 20 - An important point about "The Condemnation" is that those who loved darkness hate the Light because they loved the pleasure of their own evil deeds, unless of course their deeds should be reproved (that is).

• John 12:25 - He who loves his life in this world will lose it (eternal life) later.

• John 15:1-6 - Christians who do not bear fruit (are not abiding in Jesus) are thrown into the fire.

• John 17:3 - Eternal life is actually “knowing” Father God and Jesus Christ. Do you really know them?

• Romans 1:29-32 - Anyone practicing such sins is deserving of death due to God’s wrath on unrighteousness.

• Romans 2:5-11 - Wrath is coming to those who are unrighteously self-seeking and do not obey the truth.

• Rom 6:15-23 - Be a slave of God and to righteousness for holiness, resulting in holiness and eternal life.

• Romans 8:1-8 - Anyone who is carnally-minded (is living according to the flesh) will die spiritually.

• Romans 8:12-13 - We are not debtors to the flesh; if we live according to the flesh, we will die.

• Romans 11:20-22 - Fear unbelief, that if you do not continue to have faith, you will be cut off like the OT Jews.

• 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 - Anyone practicing such sins is unrighteous, and will not inherit the kingdom of God.

• 1 Corinthians 15:2 - You are saved, if you hold fast to that word (the gospel) … unless you believed in vain.

• 2 Corinthians 7:10 - Godly sorrow over sin leads Christians to repent, which leads to salvation.

• 2 Corinthians 13:5 - Examine and test yourself to see if you are in the faith, unless you are disqualified.

• Galatians 5:1-4 - Christians are warned: those who later have attempted to be justified by law, … have been estranged from Christ and have fallen from grace.

• Galatians 5:19-21 - Anyone practicing such sins (the works of the flesh) will not inherit the kingdom of God.

• Galatians 5:24 - Those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.

• Galatians 6:7-8 - Don't be deceived: sowing to the flesh reaps corruption, sowing to the Spirit reaps eternal life.

• Ephesians 5:3-6 - Believers practicing such sins will not inherit God’s kingdom, but will incur the wrath of God.

• Ephesians 5:25-27 - Jesus gave Himself for a glorious Church which will be sanctified, holy, without blemish.

• Philippians 2:12-16 - Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, holding fast the word of life …
  … so that: (1) you may become blameless, and (2) Paul did not labor in vain concerning you.

• Philippians 3:7-14 - Paul presses on to attaining the goal of gaining Christ, knowing Him, and being found in Him.

• Colossians 1:21-29 - Jesus’ desires (and Paul labors to warn and teach) to present “holy and blameless” and “perfect in Christ Jesus” those who continue in faith, not moved away from the hope of the gospel.

• Colossians 3:5-6 - Believers practicing such sins beware: the wrath of God will come upon sons of disobedience.

• 1 Timothy 4:1 - Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith.

• 1 Timothy 5:11-15 - Some younger widows are condemned; they cast off their first faith and turned after Satan.

• 1 Timothy 6:3-4 - Paul says that if any man teaches contrary to the words of Jesus and the doctrine of Christ is proud knowing nothing.

• 1 Timothy 6:9-14 - Greed and love of money drowns men in destruction and perdition; Instead, pursue godliness and lay hold on eternal life (and keep this command without blame).

• 1 Timothy 6:17-19 - Commands for the rich (yes, Christians) to follow, so they may lay hold on eternal life.

• Titus 1:1-3 - Faith and knowledge of the truth lead to godliness, in the hope of eternal life.

• Hebrews 2:1-4 - Warning about drifting away: how shall we escape, if we drift and neglect so great a salvation?

• Hebrews 3:6 - We belong to Christ, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm to the end.

• Hebrews 3:12-15 - Beware of an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God, being hardened through the deceitfulness of sin, for we are only partakers of Christ if we hold steadfast to the end.

• Hebrews 3:17-19 - The OT Jews who sinned (did not obey) could not enter into God’s rest (the Promised Land).

• Hebrews 4:1 - Let us fear lest any of us come short of entering God’s rest (God’s promise of salvation).

• Hebrews 4:11 - Be diligent to enter into that rest, lest anyone fall according to the OT example of disobedience.

• Hebrews 6:4-8 - Those enlightened and partakers of the Holy Spirit who fall away will be rejected and burned.

• Hebrews 10:26-27 - If we sin willfully after receiving knowledge of the truth, expect God’s fiery judgment.

• Hebrews 10:29-31 - The Lord will judge His people. “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay”, says the Lord.

• Hebrews 10:35-39 - Endure in the faith, and do not be like those who draw back to perdition.

• Hebrews 12:14-15 - Pursue holiness (without which no one will see the Lord) lest anyone falls short of God’s grace.

• Hebrews 12:15-17 - Many believers become defiled, and finding no place for repentance, are rejected.

• James 1:12-16 - Love the Lord, endure temptation to sin; do not be deceived, sin results in spiritual death.

• 1 Peter 1:8-9 - Believing, you will receive the end of your (enduring) faith—the salvation of your souls.

• 2 Peter 1:10-11 - Be diligent to make your call & election sure, so you won’t stumble, but gain the kingdom.

• 2 Peter 2:1, 14 - The false prophets (i.e. believers) are those who have eyes full of adultery and cannot cease from sin.

• 2 Peter 2:20-22 - If Christians are overcome by worldly sins, they are worse off than they were before knowing the way of righteousness, they turned from the holy commandment delivered to them.

• 1 John 1:9 - If we confess our sins, God will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

• 1 John 2:3-5 - We are sure that we “know” God and are “in” Him, if we keep His commandments.

• 1 John 2:24-25 - If God’s word does not abide in us, the Father and the Son will not abide in us, nor we in Them, and we will not receive the promised eternal life.

• 1 John 3:15 - If you hate your brother, you’re like a murderer who has no eternal life abiding in him.

• Jude 1:4 NIV - There are those false believers who turn the grace of our God into a license for immorality

• Jude 1:20-21 - 3 things for Christians to do, while looking for God’s mercy unto eternal life.

• Revelation 2:10 - Be faithful until death and Jesus will give you the crown of (eternal) life (Also see Mark 13:13 above).

• Revelation 2:11 - He who overcomes shall not be hurt by the second death (eternal death).

• Revelation 3:5 - He who overcomes will not have his name blotted out from the Book of Life.

• Revelation 14:9-11 - Those that worship the Beast and take his mark drink of the wine of the Wrath of God and will be thrown in the Lake of Fire.

• Revelation 21:8 - Anyone practicing such sins will go into the lake of fire, which is the second death.

• Revelation 21:27 - Anyone practicing such sins is not in the Book of Life, and will not enter the New Jerusalem.

• Revelation 22:14 - Anyone who does not do God’s commandments does not have the right to the tree of life.

• Revelation 22:15 - Anyone practicing such sins will be outside the gates of the New Jerusalem.

• Revelation 22:18 - If any man takes away from the prophecy of the book (i.e. the Scriptures), God will take away their name out of the Book of Life.

Source:
Your handy-dandy long list of verses against OSAS

...

I understand how such an extremely long list would make a OSAS believer start to wonder. I come across those verses all the time, and they make me stop and think. But when they give me doubt, someone will come along and remind me of the OSAS verses, which I'm sure there is an equally long list of somewhere.

 

[Aldebaran]

And sadly, young christians who may believe you will probably find a nightmare follows

Been there, done that!

 

[stuart lawrence]

Been there, done that!

Me too, its covered in rom ch7, in detail

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I left the church at the age of fifteen, I had to right? I couldn't obey the ten commandments. All manner of concupiscence had been aroused in me. I was a slave to masturbation so was continually breaking the TC.
But God was so gracious to me. At the age of nineteen he opened my eyes to grace. I suddenly believed I could be a christian after all for my right standing before God hinged on faith I Christ, not my personal goodness/ observing the law. But what of the masturbation? I didn't want it. I left it in Gods hands to deal with and for the first Time in my life stood on a justification of what Christ did for me at Calvary.
For the next three days I was blatantly breaking the TC, but unlike when I was younger I didn't let such behaviour condemn me, j looked to Christ and trusted he was my right standing before God. It wasn't easy, a voice in my head continually told me I was a hypocrite and fooling myself, I could not be a Christian and do what I was doing. But I ignored That voice, and kept trusting I was saved despite the fact i was breaking the TC.
On the fourth day, the masturbation I had been a slave to for six years stopped.

Paul wrote:

For sin shall no longer be your master, for you are not under law( of righteousness) but under grace( a righteousness of faith in Christ)
Rom 6:14

He preached an incredible message, the greatest message ever preached in my view since Christ walked this earth. But sadly, so few are willing to accept it

Oh, so you have stopped sinning because of this method? So with this method, you should be teaching that you are in defense of overcoming all sin in your life, right? Then why do you appear to be against obeying God's commands as a means of staying right with Him? Can a person be a murderer on occasion and still follow Christ? Can a person still fornicate on occasion and still follow Christ? The Bible is very clear that if you commit certain sins with no repentance, there will be dire consequences for your soul if you were to do so (Matthew 5:28-30), (Matthew 6:15), (Matthew 12:36-37), (Luke 9:26), (1 John 3:15), (Galatians 5:19-21), (Revelation 21:8).


...

 

[Aldebaran]

Me too, its covered in rom ch7, in detail

Yes!

 

[stuart lawrence]

Oh, so you have stopped sinning because of this method? So with this method, you should be teaching that you are in defense of overcoming all sin in your life, right? Then why do you appear to be against obeying God's commands as a means of staying right with Him? Can a person be a murderer on occasion and still follow Christ? Can a person still fornicate on occasion and still follow Christ? The Bible is very clear that if you commit certain sins with no repentance, there will be dire consequences for your soul if you were to do so (Matthew 5:28-30), (Matthew 6:15), (Matthew 12:36-37), (Luke 9:26), (1 John 3:15), (Galatians 5:19-21), (Revelation 21:8).


...

Unfortunately Jason, you only appear able to quote the letter, but not understand the message the letter contains.
When have I ever stated i am against Gods commands? Supply the post please.
I am opposed to a law of righteousness, as was paul

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I really liked the points Hatguy made and I was looking forward to what you were going to say in response. Is there any insight that you have that could shed some light on the subject he brought up? I agree with him about how we're told that we need the Spirit to be saved and to defeat sin. Whenever I struggle with a sin, I'm told "You're not defeating that sin because you're trying to do it in the flesh! You need to let the Spirit handle it!" So if I go about it that way, however it's defined, and still don't overcome a sin, then what? Am I to conclude that I'm not saved? It's one of those circular reasonings that make me dizzy after awhile.

If you are looking for points in Scripture that support Sinless Perfectionism or Entire Sanctification, please check out this thread here:

A Biblical Defense of Sinless Perfectionism.


....

 

[stuart lawrence]

Oh, so you have stopped sinning because of this method? So with this method, you should be teaching that you are in defense of overcoming all sin in your life, right? Then why do you appear to be against obeying God's commands as a means of staying right with Him? Can a person be a murderer on occasion and still follow Christ? Can a person still fornicate on occasion and still follow Christ? The Bible is very clear that if you commit certain sins with no repentance, there will be dire consequences for your soul if you were to do so (Matthew 5:28-30), (Matthew 6:15), (Matthew 12:36-37), (Luke 9:26), (1 John 3:15), (Galatians 5:19-21), (Revelation 21:8).


...

BTW

If you do not fully explain Gal 2:16&17 as requested, you wont write anymore posts to me stating you have explained all the scriptures I have posted will you?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Unfortunately Jason, you only appear able to quote the letter, but not understand the message the letter contains.
When have I ever stated i am against Gods commands? Supply the post please.
I am opposed to a law of righteousness, as was paul

You are just making false accusations. Quoting the plain straight forward meaning of God's Word and being able to explain ALL of what it says means a person knows what it says. Anyone can take snippets of Scripture out of context. I have not really gotten any explanation out of the verses I provided for you that refutes OSAS. Your strictly on the offensive based on a few select verses and you are not defending your OSAS viewpoint with clear Scripture (When I come up with verses that challenge that position). The standard generic Ad hominems and claims that, "I am right and you are wrong," is the name of the game.


...

 

[Bible Highlighter]

BTW

If you do not fully explain Gal 2:16&17 as requested, you wont write anymore posts to me stating you have explained all the scriptures I have posted will you?

Well, that doesn't seem exactly fair. I have provided an explanation every time on all of God's Word you put forth (And you have not done so with the verses I have provided). Anyways, I am responding to other people. So please be patient.


...

 

[stuart lawrence]

You are just making false accusations. Quoting the plain straight forward meaning of God's Word and being able to explain ALL of what it says means a person knows what it says. Anyone can take snippets of Scripture out of context. I have not really gotten any explanation out of the verses I provided for you that refutes OSAS. Your strictly on the offensive based on a few select verses and you are not defending your OSAS viewpoint with clear Scripture (When I come up with verses that challenge that position). The standard generic Ad hominems and claims that, "I am right and you are wrong," is the name of the game.


...

I haven't been discussing osas, but refuting a law of righteousness

 

[stuart lawrence]

Well, that doesn't seem exactly fair. I have provided an explanation every time on all of God's Word you put forth


...

Yes, like the explanation you gave of Matt ch23

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I understand how such an extremely long list would make a OSAS believer start to wonder. I come across those verses all the time, and they make me stop and think. But when they give me doubt, someone will come along and remind me of the OSAS verses, which I'm sure there is an equally long list of somewhere.

One of the major problems I have with OSAS is that it leads people to think you are preaching a license for immorality (if you do not explain yourself clearly enough). Second, would not God have to agree with a person's sin or wrong way of salvation in order to save them? Can God agree with sin? How can Christ's sacrifice be applied to someone who is in a state of rebellion or sin done against Him? Three, morality has to be ignored on some level with OSAS. But God wants us to always do the right thing and not the wrong thing. I see OSAS leading down the path to doing the wrong thing because it regulates sin as being no more dangerous than say a fluffy little kitten (When the Bible and life clearly teaches the exact opposite). Four, the safer play is to side on the position of caution when it comes to our souls.


...

 

[stuart lawrence]

One of the major problems I have with OSAS is that it leads people to think you are preaching a license for immorality (if you do not explain yourself clearly enough). Second, would not God have to agree with a person's sin or wrong way of salvation in order to save them? Can God agree with sin? How can Christ's sacrifice be applied to someone who is in a state of rebellion or sin done against Him? Three, morality has to be ignored on some level with OSAS. But God wants us to always do the right thing and not the wrong thing. I see OSAS leading down the path to doing the wrong thing because it regulates sin as being no more dangerous than say a fluffy little kitten (When the Bible and life clearly teaches the exact opposite). Four, the safer play is to side on the position of caution when it comes to our souls.


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All of the above is repudiated by the New Covenant hinging on TWO core foundational principles, NOT one

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I haven't been discussing osas,

But the topic of the thread is OSAS.

but refuting a law of righteousness

Okay, so if you are trying to refute a law of righteousness, then does that mean you are against God's laws? Are you trying to refute the law that says, "Do not murder"? Are you trying to refute the law that says, "Do not commit adultery"? Either you are under God's laws in some way or you are not under them. Otherwise you are supporting lawlessness. But yet, you seemed to boast that you have overcome the sin of touching yourself by a particular teaching in Scripture. Is this not a support of God's laws?

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[Bible Highlighter]

Yes, like the explanation you gave of Matt ch23

I didn't know you wanted a detailed commentary on Matthew 23. I can do so if you like. But our conversations have been one sided. You keep posting verses, and I explain them. I put forth verses and you do not explain them. This in my view makes your position to look weak.


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[stuart lawrence]

But the topic of the thread is OSAS.



Okay, so if you are trying to refute a law of righteousness, then does that mean you are against God's laws? Are you trying to refute the law that says, "Do not murder"? Are you trying to refute the law that says, "Do not commit adultery"? Either you are under God's laws in some way or you are not under them. Otherwise you are supporting lawlessness. But yet, you seemed to boast that you have overcome the sin of touching yourself by a particular teaching in Scripture. Is this not a support of God's laws?

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I didn't boast of myself overcoming masturbation did I.
You really dont understand the basis on which the new covenant is built do you.
You don't have to be under a law of righteousness to want to live as God desires you to live.

So if you believed no law of righteousness existed you would then go out and happily sin as much as you want?

That would prove you didn't love God wouldn't it. For you don't intentionally seek to offend the one you love