Once Saved Always Saved - Why is it so hard?

[stuart lawrence]

No finger pointng. Jesus is the source of a person's righteousness and He deserves all the glory, honor, and power, and praise. Jesus is the source of our Justification and Sanctification. For it is God that works within us.


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The law is not based on faith
Gal5:12

It is one or the other for righteousness

 

[stuart lawrence]

The Old Testament Law was not just .... some law.
Oh, and yes; I have already answered your question in Post #237.


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So you believe the christian is under a righteousness of observing the law. Yet you have no scripture from the new covenant Tha states Tha do you.
I have much scripture I can quote Tha states the christian is not under law unto righteousness.
No exegesis please, plain scriptural text or you have nothing to back up your view with

 

[Bible Highlighter]

The Ten Commandments are an inflexible law. There is no imaginary pass mark of obedience to them that will entitle you to enter heaven. Perfectly obey them or stand guilty before them. There is nothing in those commands that speak of mercy or forgiveness

Jesus seemed to think that obedience to certain kinds of Laws led to eternal life. In fact, Jesus said in reply to the rich young ruler, "but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments." (Matthew 19:17).

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[stuart lawrence]

Jesus seemed to think that obedience to certain kinds of Laws led to eternal life. In fact, Jesus said in reply to the rich young ruler, "but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments." (Matthew 19:17).

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As you have no scripture from the new covenant that states you have righteousness of observing the law, we cannot continue This discussion. I have much scripture, you have none.
This is a bible discussion forum after all

 

[Bible Highlighter]

The law is not based on faith
Gal5:12

It is one or the other for righteousness

Paul was addressing the Pharisee religion whereby it was all law as a way of salvation and no faith. There was no love, grace, faith, or mercy in their plan of salvation. It was all law. That is why Paul talked in the way that he did. Paul was not saying that the Old Testament saint did not have faith because they followed the many commands (and not just the 10) under the Old Covenant (or Old Testament).

In other words, when a person ignores Jesus Christ as their savior and makes it all about law, they then have no faith. Do you get it? I mean, why on Earth do you think Paul talked about circumcision? Is circumcision of the commands given to us by Christ and His followers? No.


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[stuart lawrence]

Paul was addressing the Pharisee religion whereby it was all law as a way of salvation and no faith. There was no love, grace, faith, or mercy in their plan of salvation. It was all law. That is why Paul talked in the way that he did. Paul was not saying that the Old Testament saint did not have faith because they followed the many commands (and not just the 10) under the Old Covenant (or Old Testament).

In other words, when a person ignores Jesus Christ as their savior and makes it all about law, they then have no faith. Do you get it?


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I get you have no scriptural support that states a christian is under any law of righteousness

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I get you have no scriptural support that states a christian is under any law of righteousness

I already supplied that for you. There is the Command in 1 John 3:23, the Law of Christ (Galatians 6:2), the Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:2), the Perfect Law of Liberty (James 1:25) (James 2:12), and the Royal Law (James 2:8).

Paul also said he established the Law (Romans 3:31).


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[stuart lawrence]

Paul was addressing the Pharisee religion whereby it was all law as a way of salvation and no faith. There was no love, grace, faith, or mercy in their plan of salvation. It was all law. That is why Paul talked in the way that he did. Paul was not saying that the Old Testament saint did not have faith because they followed the many commands (and not just the 10) under the Old Covenant (or Old Testament).

In other words, when a person ignores Jesus Christ as their savior and makes it all about law, they then have no faith. Do you get it? I mean, why on Earth do you think Paul talked about circumcision? Is circumcision of the commands given to us by Christ and His followers? No.


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In fact, Paul tell us we have to die to the law, and he uses as an example of this his inability to obey the Ten Commandments

 

[stuart lawrence]

I already supplied that for you. There is the Command in 1 John 3:23, the Law of Christ (Galatians 6:2), the Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:2), the Perfect Law of Liberty (James 1:25) (James 2:12), and the Royal Law (James 2:8).

Paul also said he established the Law.


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I dont want your faulty exegesis based on you not understanding the new covenant.
I want plain scriptural text that states the christian is under law concerning righteousness.
I have much scripture that proves my belief correct, where is yours?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I get you have no scriptural support that states a christian is under any law of righteousness

John says he that does righteousness is righteous (1 John 3:7).
John says, if we say we know Him and do not keep His commandments we are a liar and the truth is not in us (1 John 2:4).
Paul says if any man speaks contrary to the words of Jesus Christ and the doctrine of Godliness, he is proud and knows nothing (1 Timothy 6:3-4).
It is written, "He became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him (Hebrews 5:9).


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[stuart lawrence]

John says he that does righteousness is righteous (1 John 3:7).
John says, if we say we know Him and do not keep His commandments we are a liar and the truth is not in us (1 John 2:4).
Paul says if any man speaks contrary to the words of Jesus Christ and the doctrine of Godliness, he is proud and knows nothing (1 Timothy 6:3-4).
It is written, "He became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him (Hebrews 5:9).


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Once again, where us your scripture Tha states a christian is under law unto righteousness

 

[stuart lawrence]

Christ is the end of the law unto righteousness for everyone who believeth Rom10:4

But now APART from law the righteousness of God has been made known... Rom3:21

Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law... Rom3:20

Provide your scripture contradicting the above and we can continue

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I dont want your faulty exegesis based on you not understanding the new covenant.
I want plain scriptural text that states the christian is under law concerning righteousness.
I have much scripture that proves my belief correct, where is yours?

No. You are simply rejecting the verses that is the answer to the truth that you seek.

I will give you more, though (if that is not enough).

Sin is transgression of the Law (1 John 3:4).
This mean sin exists still uner the New Covenant.
If sin exists than that means there is some kind of Law you can break.
In other words, you cannot break a law that is no longer in effect.

Jesus said if you look upon a woman in lust, your whole body can be cast into hell fire (Matthew 5:28-30). Jesus says if you do not forgive, then the Father will not forgive you (Matthew 6:15). Jesus says by your words you can be condemned (Matthew 12:36-37). John says if a man hates his brother he is like a murderer and no murderer has eternal life abiding in them (1 John 3:15). John says all liars will have their part in the Lake of Fire (Revelation 21:8). John makes no mention of another group of liars who will be saved. Yes, many saints were ONCE sinners as a part of their old life, but they are not that way anymore in Jesus Christ. They are changed. They are new. They are born again and new creatures in Christ. They are crucified with Christ and walk in a new and resurrected life in Him.


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[stuart lawrence]

No. You are simply rejecting the verses that is the answer to the truth that you seek.

I will give you more, though (if that is not enough).

Sin is transgression of the Law (1 John 3:4).
This mean sin exists still uner the New Covenant.
If sin exists than that means there is some kind of Law you can break.

Jesus said if you look upon a woman in lust, your whole body can be cast into hell fire (Matthew 5:28-30). Jesus says if you do not forgive, then the Father will not forgive you (Matthew 6:15). Jesus says by your words you can be condemned (Matthew 12:36-37). John says if a man hates his brother he is like a murderer and no murderer has eternal life abiding in them (1 John 3:15). John says all liars will have their part in the Lake of Fire (Revelation 21:8). John makes no mention of another group of liars who will be saved. Yes, many saints were ONCE sinners as a part of their old life, but they are not that way anymore in Jesus Christ. They are changed. They are new. They are born again and new creatures in Christ. They are crucified with Christ and walk in a new and resurrected life in Him.


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You have no scripture that states the Christian is under law unto righteousness so you just try and invent it. It isn't there

 

[John Hyperspace]

And there it is...no answer. I've know people who do close enough to that hypothetical

You know people who rape, kill, and sell guns to children? That's really difficult to believe; I'm going to have to respond here that I don't believe you. Also, I did answer the question when he asked it again, basically with the same response as you. The answer is, no; a person that rapes and kills in not saved, and their actions make manifest that they have not passed from death to life: 1 John 3:14-15, 1 John 2:9-11

 

[Bible Highlighter]

In fact, Paul tell us we have to die to the law, and he uses as an example of this his inability to obey the Ten Commandments

In the bulk of Romans 7, Paul is talking from his perspective as a Pharisee before he became a Christian. It is in Romans 7:25 where Paul concludes as a Christian to his dilema as Pharisee in struggling to keep God's laws.

Paul says, "For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death." (Romans 8:2).

What is the law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus?
It is described for us in Romans 8:1. It says,
"There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who WALK not after the flesh, but after the Spirit" (Romans 8:1).

What is the law of sin and death?
It is the Law of Moses or the 613 Old Testament Commands (as a whole).
It is called the law of sin and death because you could face capital punishment for breaking God's laws. Meaning, you could die physically.


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[Bible Highlighter]

You have no scripture that states the Christian is under law unto righteousness so you just try and invent it. It isn't there

Can Christians sin?

Yes or no?

If they can sin, that means they are under some kind of Law because 1 John 3:4 says, "sin is transgression of the Law."


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[Bible Highlighter]

John says he that does righteousness is righteous (1 John 3:7).
John says, if we say we know Him and do not keep His commandments we are a liar and the truth is not in us (1 John 2:4).
Paul says if any man speaks contrary to the words of Jesus Christ and the doctrine of Godliness, he is proud and knows nothing (1 Timothy 6:3-4).
It is written, "He became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him (Hebrews 5:9).


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I am quoting my own verses within a post I made.
Please check them out.

If folks do not believe they are under no law, then what in the world do these verses even mean to you?
Are they just non-sense verses?
Explain them.

Anyways, Stuart, I will explain the other three verses you posted later.
I gotta run.
I will be back.

God bless you.


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[stuart lawrence]

Can Christians sin?

Yes or no?

If they can sin, that means they are under some kind of Law because 1 John 3:4 says, "sin is transgression of the Law."


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When you finally admit you have no scripture Tha states a christian is under law unto righteousness we can move on. As you originally started to this discussion by questioning a christian not being under law Thi point needs to be settled first

 

[stuart lawrence]

In the bulk of Romans 7, Paul is talking from his perspective as a Pharisee before he became a Christian. It is in Romans 7:25 where Paul concludes as a Christian to his dilema as Pharisee in struggling to keep God's laws.

Paul says, "For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death." (Romans 8:2).

What is the law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus?
It is described for us in Romans 8:1. It says,
"There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who WALK not after the flesh, but after the Spirit" (Romans 8:1).

What is the law of sin and death?
It is the Law of Moses or the 613 Old Testament Commands (as a whole).
It is called the law of sin and death because you could face capital punishment for breaking God's laws. Meaning, you could die physically.


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The above does not address the point made in the post you are responding to.
Paul states the christian must die to the law, they are released from it. He used a personal example from his own life as to why this us so. The example he gave was his inability to obey the ten commandments