Once Saved Always Saved - Why is it so hard?

[ToBeLoved]

Your doing a dance I've seen many times. Does one need to obey the laws written in their hearts in order to obtain salvation, or can they do as they want, meaning not obey those laws, and still obtain salvation?

I gave you the yes or no that you demanded from me, might you pay me the same respect?

Why does it always go to one extreme or the other?

Why don't you put your law-o-meter measuring stick on the following situations then if that is the game that you would like to play.

A brand new Christian - What percentage of God's Commandments should a person who has been a Christian for less than 6 months keep? In your estimation.

A pretty new Christian - What percentage of God's Commandments should a person who has been a Christian for less than 2 years but more than 6 months keep? In your estimation.

A kind of new Christian - What percentage of God's Commandments should a person who has been a Christian for less than 4 years but more than 2 years keep? In your estimation.

A fairly mature Christian - What percentage of God's Commandments should a person who has been a Christian for less than 6 years but more than 4 years keep? In your estimation.

Let's start with these and then move on to more.

If you think that sin is so easy to judge, then put your own sin-o-meter out there and judge.

What should each percentage of each of the time allocations be?

Then we can start to talk about your law-o-meter timelines for the mentally retarded people with limitations, those on crack or another drug heavily addicted, those 4 years old and under, ect....

But let's just start with these. Use the Law and a perctentage like 75%, 76.6676554%, 77.22333221 %, ect...

 

[Kenny'sID]

Of course if you haven't been born again, if the law hadn't been placed on your heart, you would believe you can do what you want if you have no righteousness of observing the law.

Under those circumstances I would see what you mean

But only born again Christians can go to Heaven

The subject is born again or supposedly born again Christians and how they should act when it comes to being saved.

 

[stuart lawrence]

I tell you the truth. No one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again
John3:3

 

[stuart lawrence]

The subject is born again or supposedly born again Christians and how they should act when it comes to being saved.

Born again is having the Holy Spirit enter your life and write the law on your mind and place it on your heart

 

[Kenny'sID]

Why don't you put your law-o-meter measuring stick on the following situations then if that is the game that you would like to play.

Your doing as Stewy is...there is no lawometer, this is something you say I have, and it is not the truth.

 

[Kenny'sID]

I tell you the truth. No one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again

Born again is having the Holy Spirit enter your life and write the law on your mind and place it on your heart

And? did you think that was news to me? I have more than indicated it is not.

 

[ToBeLoved]

If all these law-minded people need to stop talking in

* Obey the law
* Not obey the law

Somehow they need to qualify the percentages and put people in groups unless they have no compassion for those under 4 years old, or those with defects in learning, which I am sure some have no compassion for any shortcoming at all.

YOU JUDGE. PLAY GOD FOR THE DAY. COME ON, IT"S FUN. IS THE LAW FRIEND OR FOE TO AREAS OF CHRISTIANITY AND ARE WE SAVED BY GRACE OR LAW.

Law people, play God.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Your doing as Stewy is...there is no lawometer, this is something you say I have, and it is not the truth.

Well instead of putting every human being under your gracious measuring stick, rather than God's, I thought you could enlighten us how God should be doing it?

When should God say "I don't love you, go to hell" to people?

 

[ToBeLoved]

In the bulk of Romans 7, Paul is talking about his struggle with sin as a Pharisee before he became a Christian. In Romans 7:25 is where he switches back to talking as a Christian and he is thankful to God thru Jesus Christ that he can help him to deliver him from his body of death. Meaning, Jesus can help Paul to overcome sin (Whereas before he couldn't do it on his own as Pharisee who was concerned with Law salvationism). For Paul says in Romans 7:14 that he is sold under sin and yet in Romans 8:2 Paul says he is free from sin.

Paul says, "For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death." (Romans 8:2).

What is the Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus? It is Romans 8:1 whereby we WALK after the Spirit in Christ Jesus so as not to be under the Condemnation. What is the law of sin and death? It is the Law of sin and death.

Paul gives us the solution of overcoming sin with walking after the Spirit whereby we fulfill the righteous aspect part of the Law.

4 "That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded isdeath; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
(Romans 8:4-8).


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Feel free to participate in the Sin-O-Meter Law - Send 'em all to hell series. Play God for a day if only in your own mind.

 

[Kenny'sID]

If all these law-minded people need to stop talking in

* Obey the law
* Not obey the law

Somehow they need to qualify the percentages and put people in groups unless they have no compassion for those under 4 years old, or those with defects in learning, which I am sure some have no compassion for any shortcoming at all.

YOU JUDGE. PLAY GOD FOR THE DAY. COME ON, IT"S FUN. IS THE LAW FRIEND OR FOE TO AREAS OF CHRISTIANITY AND ARE WE SAVED BY GRACE OR LAW.

Law people, play God.

Some of us give credit to others to know there are always other circumstances so we speak in general. If we covered every conceivable circumstance, we would all run out of energy real quick.

Who's judging, we are simply stating what we feel is the right way. Some of the out there defenses presented here, make the desperation for a defense obvious.

 

[stuart lawrence]

The subject is born again or supposedly born again Christians and how they should act when it comes to being saved.

The defining moment of my life was when i responded to an altar call at the age of ten. I immediately became aware of my sin( even at that age)
I had been a normal happy kid before That event took place, but not after.
I now knew I could not continue to live as I had previously for the law I should follow was in my most inward parts
Gone was the ability to happily sin without conscience. Now I felt guilt weighing me down due to.my inability to obey the standard set by.the law within me. For at that time i only had half a covenant, the law within me!
I became crushed and full of guilt. On the outside I could appear holy and righteous before men. I didn't drink, smoke swear, I was polite and tithed my pocket money etc.
But what good was that? I couldn't obey the law relating to the inner man, and when I reached puberty the guilt increased tenfold. Sin became greatly manifested in me
Looking back at That time what can i say:

I would not have known sin but by the law, for i would not have known lust except the law had said: Thou shalt not covet. But sin, taking occasion by the commandment aroused all manner of concupiscence in me. For without the law sin was dead.
Once I was alive without the law but when the commandment came sin revived( or sin consciousness sprang to life) and i died/ felt condemned
And the commandment which was ordained to life( if i obeyed it) instead brought death( for I could not keep it)
For sin, taking occassion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me
Rom7:7-11

 

[Kenny'sID]

Well instead of putting every human being under your gracious measuring stick, rather than God's, I thought you could enlighten us how God should be doing it?

When should God say "I don't love you, go to hell" to people?

You're making untrue comments on what people are doing, because you have no other defense, and this won't be the first time. I understand this is hard for some of you to take, but getting out of hand isn't going to help.

If anyone has any question about how I feel about this, I've pretty well stated it all in this thread, and after seeing the unreasonable direction this is headed, not much sense in my sticking around.

 

[stuart lawrence]

Feel free to participate in the Sin-O-Meter Law - Send 'em all to hell series. Play God for a day if only in your own mind.

I sure hope they understand, when they speak of a righteousness of observing the law, Thi includes the law relating to the inner man, the law only God need know they break

 

[stuart lawrence]

You're making untrue comments on what people are doing, because you have no other defense, and this won't be the first time. I understand this is hard for some of you to take, but getting out of hand isn't going to help.

If anyone has any question about how I feel about this, I've pretty well stated it all in this thread, and after seeing the unreasonable direction this is headed, not much sense in my sticking around.

Why do you think Paul stated the offence of the cross is not preaching law?
Gal5:11

 

[stuart lawrence]

Feel free to participate in the Sin-O-Meter Law - Send 'em all to hell series. Play God for a day if only in your own mind.

They basically believe if they don't get drunk, have affairs, maybe not smoke or use foul language. If they read their bibles and pray, go to church each week, do a few good deeds and tithe their money they have obeyed the law well enough to enter heaven.
They forget. The Pharisees of Jesus day would have easily passed all those tests, but it didn't do them any good

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Feel free to participate in the Sin-O-Meter Law - Send 'em all to hell series. Play God for a day if only in your own mind.

You mock that which you don't understand. God is not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

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[stuart lawrence]

...[/QUOTE]

And? did you think that was news to me? .

To answer honestly? Yes.

 

[stuart lawrence]

You mock that which you don't understand. God is not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

...

Why did Paul state the offence of the cross is not preaching law?
Gal5:11

 

[Vicomte13]

Yes, Christians look to the New Testament and not the Old Testament to obey God.


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Well said!

 

[ToBeLoved]

Some of us give credit to others to know there are always other circumstances so we speak in general. If we covered every conceivable circumstance, we would all run out of energy real quick.

Who's judging, we are simply stating what we feel is the right way. Some of the out there defenses presented here, make the desperation for a defense obvious.

That's not what your posts say. You don't quantify anything you say, do you?

What do people think reading your posts?