"On White Privilege"

[A2SG]

Like when the police respond to an armed robbery at a store. The description is of a black man late 20s wearing a dark hoodie and jeans, 180-220, 6'2"...driving an older model dark colored sedan.

Police would then be justified pulling over a suspect of that description...yes? (I've literally got hundreds of these if you intend to give no examples of "when it's relevant")

Sure, that would be relevant. Of course, if the black man was in his late thirties, thinner and shorter, wearing surgical scrubs and driving a new red convertible, it wouldn't be.

For example.

Uh huh...so you would be in favor of remaking the Cosby show with an all white cast...assuming that they gave the best auditions?

It's not up to me, speak to whomever has the rights to the show. All I said was that a show like that doesn't defy tradition...I never said you couldn't do it.

Personally, I think he's getting a bit old. He's in his early 40s...right? So he's got one, maybe two good Bond films in him? Daniel Craig is only 8-10 years older...right?

Craig was 38 when he filmed Casino Royale (he's 48 now). For comparison, Pierce Brosnan was 42 when he did Goldeneye, Timothy Dalton 41 when he did The Living Daylights and Roger Moore was 46 when he did his first Bond movie, 58 when he did his last.

Elba is 43.

If you want to break traditions...how about a German Michael Fassbender? Or a much younger Nicholas Hoult? I wouldn't think he'd have the physicality for the role...but after MM-Fury Road...

Um, you know I'm not in charge of casting, right? It isn't my job to audition actors. I'm simply saying Elba should be considered, nothing more.

So...to be clear,we're in agreement that race shouldn't be a factor, for or against the actor.

Not the only factor, no.

If I were to do that, I would.

Okay...

So you don't agree that the Oscars were racist....since that wasn't backed up by anything?

I didn't say they were.

It's disgusting isn't it? Labeled racist simply because I'm white...wanna hear something else really messed up?

There's a giant pack of idiots out there who assume I have racial bias just because I work in the criminal justice system too.

Knowing very little about you personally, I'm not in a position to say a thing about that.

Oh I can think of some examples...wanna hear some?

We've already mentioned a couple. Were they unclear?

Summer Glau....

No idea who that is...

A2SG I'm shocked...is that how you see black people? As "below you"?

That's horribly racist and not how I see it at all.

Allow me to requote myself: "Not agreeing with this perception or disagreeing with it, simply acknowledging that it happens."

But thanks for a good example of snarkiness.

I don't see what it does for racial equality. I don't see black men as incapable of playing Bond...so one who does won't change my views. Frankly, I think it's just a lot of white people feeling good about their own racism by saying "See? I'm watching a black James Bond...I'm not racist!"

Then maybe you're not among those whose mind needs to be changed.

Why? Who do you think got left out? Frankly, I saw Straight Outta Compton...didn't see Creed (though it looked more like a cheap Rocky franchise rip-off than an Oscar movie) and I don't disagree with the nominations at all.

Certainly you'd understand that a year when so many white actors and actresses give great performances...it's not at all unreasonable to see a glut of white faces nominated?

I didn't see all the movies put out last year, so I can't say definitively.

-- A2SG, not that I ever did, mind you....

 

[Ana the Ist]

Not the only factor, no.

What do you mean "only factor"?

Why should it be a factor at all?

 

[A2SG]

What do you mean "only factor"?

Why should it be a factor at all?

For actors, appearance is a factor, in a way that isn't relevant for most other jobs. It isn't the only factor being considered, of course.

-- A2SG, same basic reason Sean Connery was cast as Bond, but Don Knotts wasn't.....

 

[Ana the Ist]

For actors, appearance is a factor, in a way that isn't relevant for most other jobs. It isn't the only factor being considered, of course.

-- A2SG, same basic reason Sean Connery was cast as Bond, but Don Knotts wasn't.....

Sure...but that need not include race. We're talking about Bond here...not 12 Years A Slave.

Why should race be a factor?

 

[A2SG]

Sure...but that need not include race. We're talking about Bond here...not 12 Years A Slave.

Why should race be a factor?

I didn't say it should.

-- A2SG, still not my decision to make....

 

[Ana the Ist]

I didn't say it should.

-- A2SG, still not my decision to make....

So when I said...

"So...to be clear,we're in agreement that race shouldn't be a factor, for or against the actor."

And you said...

"Not the only factor, no."

I should just disregard that statement because you no longer agree with it? (That only took about an hour)

Or you still think it should be a factor? (In the example of Bond as we've been discussing)

 

[A2SG]

So when I said...

"So...to be clear,we're in agreement that race shouldn't be a factor, for or against the actor."

And you said...

"Not the only factor, no."

I should just disregard that statement because you no longer agree with it? (That only took about an hour)

Or you still think it should be a factor? (In the example of Bond as we've been discussing)

To quote myself again: "For actors, appearance is a factor, in a way that isn't relevant for most other jobs. It isn't the only factor being considered, of course."

Race is a factor. It can't not be, not when we're considering actors, who embody a character. Actors are unique in this regard, of course; this criteria doesn't apply in the vast majority of hiring issues.

My point has always been that Elba shouldn't be dismissed because of his race, but I don't think he should be considered for the role just because he's black. Otherwise, Jaleel White would be just as qualified. Elba is an amazing actor, no question, but his talent alone isn't all he'd bring to the role. His race would add a dimension to his performance as Bond that's never been seen before, something new and unique, and that's indistinguishable from who Elba is as a human being. And yes, his race is part of that.

So, while race is A factor, it's one among many.

-- A2SG, which is why the whole defying tradition bit came into the conversation.....sometimes, that's a good thing for it's own sake.....

 

[Ana the Ist]

To quote myself again: "For actors, appearance is a factor, in a way that isn't relevant for most other jobs. It isn't the only factor being considered, of course."

Race is a factor. It can't not be, not when we're considering actors, who embody a character. Actors are unique in this regard, of course; this criteria doesn't apply in the vast majority of hiring issues.

My point has always been that Elba shouldn't be dismissed because of his race, but I don't think he should be considered for the role just because he's black. Otherwise, Jaleel White would be just as qualified. Elba is an amazing actor, no question, but his talent alone isn't all he'd bring to the role. His race would add a dimension to his performance as Bond that's never been seen before, something new and unique, and that's indistinguishable from who Elba is as a human being. And yes, his race is part of that.

So, while race is A factor, it's one among many.

-- A2SG, which is why the whole defying tradition bit came into the conversation.....sometimes, that's a good thing for it's own sake.....

Ok...so it is a factor, and should be considered as such?

 

[A2SG]

Ok...so it is a factor, and should be considered as such?

How can it not be?

Actors bring themselves to every role they play. Race is part of who a person is.

This is, again, unique. Accountants don't bring themselves to the job in the same way.

-- A2SG, sense memory isn't a skill many accountants need either.....

 

[Ana the Ist]

How can it not be?.

So, let's imagine a hypothetical situation...

Where Elba and a white actor give equally impressive performances...and they are the two being considered. The casting director decides that Elba's blackness is more likely to hurt sales than help...so he hires the white actor.

This is acceptable in your eyes (since he considered race a factor)? Or is it only acceptable if he shares your view on how race is a factor?

 

[A2SG]

So, let's imagine a hypothetical situation...

Where Elba and a white actor give equally impressive performances...and they are the two being considered. The casting director decides that Elba's blackness is more likely to hurt sales than help...so he hires the white actor.

This is acceptable in your eyes (since he considered race a factor)? Or is it only acceptable if he shares your view on how race is a factor?

Why does my acceptance figure into this at all? It isn't my decision to make, nor would my acceptance figure into the casting director's decision.

I'd accept either decision because I have no choice. They're gonna hire who they're gonna hire, and no one will be asking me what I think about it, because no one cares. The movie will be successful, or not, regardless of what I think.

I can only say what I'd do in the casting director's place. And I'd be saying that with complete and total ignorance of all but a tiny part of the many things that would have to go into such a decision.

-- A2SG, still interested in my singular, personal, uninformed opinion?

 

[Ana the Ist]

Why does my acceptance figure into this at all? It isn't my decision to make, nor would my acceptance figure into the casting director's decision.

I'd accept either decision because I have no choice. They're gonna hire who they're gonna hire, and no one will be asking me what I think about it, because no one cares. The movie will be successful, or not, regardless of what I think.

I can only say what I'd do in the casting director's place. And I'd be saying that with complete and total ignorance of all but a tiny part of the many things that would have to go into such a decision.

-- A2SG, still interested in my singular, personal, uninformed opinion?

Yea...isn't this what we're discussing? Opinions?

 

[Ana the Ist]

To put it another way...

I have no influence on hiring practices, police practices, the criminal justice system, or anything else we've talked about...

That's what a discussion is though...an exchange of opinion.

 

[A2SG]

Yea...isn't this what we're discussing? Opinions?

Sure.

I think one actor would be good for a part, you think a different actor would be better. We disagree.

End of discussion.

-- A2SG, boy, that was fun!

 

[A2SG]

To put it another way...

I have no influence on hiring practices, police practices, the criminal justice system, or anything else we've talked about...

That's what a discussion is though...an exchange of opinion.

Opinions on what, though?

Racial inequality, or who'd make the best Bond?

-- A2SG, kind of a difference in scope between those two subjects, don't ya think?

 

[Rick Otto]

QUOTE="Ana the Ist, post: 69653960, member: 302807"]Well I don't get to use black racism as an excuse for my behavior do I?

Nope

Obviously not with me, anyway. Try it with God.

Being white won't convince anyone I wasn't speeding will it?

It doesn't have to. You get a pass.

It certainly wouldn't justify me acting like that black man in the theatre would it?

You don't get it.

What if I shouted racial epithets at him and called him racist for not sitting next to me?

what if you forgave him for misunderstanding and valued him enough as a human being to dignify the situation by sacrificing a little bit of personal attention?
What if you were able to imagine & do something like that instead of thinking of how it's not your problem or how it's only his problem as if blame were more important than forgiving and kindness. What if you took a responsible (not guilty) attitude toward problems of a world you don't have to live in?
What if?

 

[Ana the Ist]

Sure.

I think one actor would be good for a part, you think a different actor would be better. We disagree.

End of discussion.

-- A2SG, boy, that was fun!

You're not going to answer the question then?

 

[A2SG]

You're not going to answer the question then?

I did.

You asked if casting someone other than Idris Elba as James Bond was acceptable in my eyes...and I answered that it doesn't matter. No one is casting Bond based on whether or not I accept their decision.

I am, of course, on record as thinking he'd be amazing in the role, but that's as far as I can go on the subject.

-- A2SG, was there some other question you had in mind?

 

[Ana the Ist]

Obviously not with me, anyway. Try it with God.

It doesn't have to. You get a pass.


You don't get it.

what if you forgave him for misunderstanding and valued him enough as a human being to dignify the situation by sacrificing a little bit of personal attention?
What if you were able to imagine & do something like that instead of thinking of how it's not your problem or how it's only his problem as if blame were more important than forgiving and kindness. What if you took a responsible (not guilty) attitude toward problems of a world you don't have to live in?
What if?

He got exactly the same treatment that I would give anyone else...regardless of skin color. That's more than he gave me.

 

[Ana the Ist]

I did.

You asked if casting someone other than Idris Elba as James Bond was acceptable in my eyes...and I answered that it doesn't matter. No one is casting Bond based on whether or not I accept their decision.

I am, of course, on record as thinking he'd be amazing in the role, but that's as far as I can go on the subject.

-- A2SG, was there some other question you had in mind?

You asked if I wanted your opinion on the matter regardless.