On Kissing the Priest's hand - a nice article

[Anhelyna]

This was sent to me today by my GodPapa - I like it and I think most folk will.

I reckon it answers a question often asked by inquirers

" Why in the world do we kiss the hand of the Priest?

The real question is, “Why don’t we kiss more people’s hands?”

http://www.stgabrielashland.org/on-kissing-the-priests-hand/

I've also had a browse round the Site - I think it answers a lot of questions without going into excessive detail

 

[~Anastasia~]

I read that one before - it is good. Really I was helped very much by integrating with the cultural customs in my Church. My Nouna (Godmother) used to kiss MY hand, which is not really proper and caused something of a stir, but I kissed her hand as well, and that greeting has helped me a great deal to acclimate and internalize some of the reasons for doing things. I do wish it was more widely done in cultural contexts. (Kissing the hands of elders, grandparents, godparents, etc. I mean.)

(Also I have long been accustomed to give anything from a nod to even a bow when greeting those to whom respect is due (at least a nod to pretty much all persons), so such things made Orthodoxy's demonstrativeness easier and more natural for me than it might have been otherwise.)

 

[Anhelyna]

Oh I'm the only one in my Parish who kisses the priest's hand He's learnt that I WILL do it .

My GodPapa brought me up that way But he can do something I can't If he's acting as server as well as chanter [ and it does happen ] he never leaves go of the Kadilla till he has kissed the priest's hand Even our Bishop gives in to the pair of us

Fr Confessor never worries about us - he knows we do it and is happy - he teaches the children to kiss his hand and seeing a little one [ maybe as old as 2 ] doing it is really good.

BTW - with us after Confession we kiss the end of the priests epitrachelion

 

[GoingByzantine]

Sadly, we don't greet the priest or one another with a holy kiss at my parish.

 

[~Anastasia~]

Oh I'm the only one in my Parish who kisses the priest's hand He's learnt that I WILL do it .

My GodPapa brought me up that way But he can do something I can't If he's acting as server as well as chanter [ and it does happen ] he never leaves go of the Kadilla till he has kissed the priest's hand Even our Bishop gives in to the pair of us

Fr Confessor never worries about us - he knows we do it and is happy - he teaches the children to kiss his hand and seeing a little one [ maybe as old as 2 ] doing it is really good.

BTW - with us after Confession we kiss the end of the priests epitrachelion

I read in that article that one is supposed to kiss the priest's hand after Confession.

I have also read before that there are things the one confessing is supposed to say. Father didn't teach me that, and so we just do it all in a very casual manner. He says all the prayers, of course, but nothing is scripted for me. He does tell me when to stand, where to face, when to kneel, and all that.

I suppose sooner or later I need to learn those things. If I have to confess to anyone else, I want to do what I'm supposed to do, I guess. I don't know. I usually go to communion as Father taught me, but if feel awkward in a different jurisdiction. At an OCA parish, the priest held the chalice down for me to kiss it, and we do NOT do that (for fear of spilling the Gifts).

It seems odd. My SF wants me to go to Confession every 4-6 weeks, so I'm pretty frequent by Greek standards. But I don't even know the script.

Part of me loves the distinctives of the Greek Church (though I love certain things in other jurisdictions as well). But there WOULD be something to be said for having all these little details be the same in every parish in the country, as they apparently are in Orthodox countries.

 

[~Anastasia~]

Sadly, we don't greet the priest or one another with a holy kiss at my parish.

Oh, that is sad. Father said the greeting part of the Liturgy is not done in very many parishes, but we have retained it. It is one of the few parishes our Bishop allows it in, because (Father said) we don't use it as a fellowship thing as many may be tempted to do, but we quickly greet only those closest to us in a show of unity.

But outside of the liturgical "kiss of peace" kissing is VERY BIG in our parish. Usually we kiss the right cheek, then the left. Younger folks might kiss only one cheek, and it is more restrained in men and women kissing one another (often we just take hands and nod for men/women). I just follow the lead of whoever I'm greeting.

Father is the one man that always exchanges the kiss in greeting a woman if it's at all formal (or greeting a man also for that matter), so the "holy kiss" is much more often with the priest. I've seen that with other priests as well. In parishes where people don't exchange a holy kiss, if there is more than one clergy at the liturgy, I notice the clergy still exchange the kiss in the altar. I gather it's much more a formality as well as expected with them.

The women are just spontaneously very kissy. I have had family members from other cultures who did that as well (kissed all family at any meeting anywhere) and I get the impression that's how the women mean it - a very affectionate family greeting. They don't do it with visitors, and didn't with me until I knew them better.

 

[~Anastasia~]

Oh I'm the only one in my Parish who kisses the priest's hand He's learnt that I WILL do it .

My GodPapa brought me up that way But he can do something I can't If he's acting as server as well as chanter [ and it does happen ] he never leaves go of the Kadilla till he has kissed the priest's hand Even our Bishop gives in to the pair of us

Fr Confessor never worries about us - he knows we do it and is happy - he teaches the children to kiss his hand and seeing a little one [ maybe as old as 2 ] doing it is really good.

BTW - with us after Confession we kiss the end of the priests epitrachelion

Btw, Anhelyna - if you're the only one who kisses the priest's hand - what does everyone else do? Does he hold a blessing cross to be kissed? Or does nobody kiss anything? I'm just curious.

Is this after the dismissal? That's when we all go up for a blessing (if we want it) and receive antidoron to take with us, a blessing, and kiss Father's hand.

 

[Anhelyna]

You got it - that's when we go up to kiss the Cross and receive antidoron [ he bakes his own prosphora ]

I'm honest - till Father came we never kissed the Cross at the end - nor had antidoron . I very nearly forgot myself and cheered on his first Sunday when the server came out with a basket , and Father stood there at the [ well it's our effort at the Royal Doors ] with his hand cross. No-one moved so I started it - and still do.

Our Bishop always greets me with a triple kiss - fair astonished the Parish first time they saw me greeted that way It has to be admitted - that in many ways, were are dreadfully Latinised

 

[ArmyMatt]

that was a good article, thanks for the find.

 

[gzt]

honestly, everybody does confession a little differently, and I wouldn't be surprised if there were systematic differences with the Greeks. The order he's doing it with you is likely the order he does it with everybody. And priests know that the penitent doesn't know what to expect from them when it's somebody new. There is actually an entire short service, starting with the trisagion prayers, including Psalm 50, etc for confessing, but it is usually omitted, and it's not through any omission of your own. If you're supposed to do something, he'll tell you.

 

[~Anastasia~]

honestly, everybody does confession a little differently, and I wouldn't be surprised if there were systematic differences with the Greeks. The order he's doing it with you is likely the order he does it with everybody. And priests know that the penitent doesn't know what to expect from them when it's somebody new. There is actually an entire short service, starting with the trisagion prayers, including Psalm 50, etc for confessing, but it is usually omitted, and it's not through any omission of your own. If you're supposed to do something, he'll tell you.

Ah, well he may be doing "the short service" with me. (Meaning with everyone else too then - I imagine he always does the same thing.) It actually takes a little time. He says several prayers at the beginning. I know the Trisagion is included, and several other prayers. I don't remember if Psalm 50 was one of them. I've only been twice on my new "schedule" and the first time I was rather distracted with emotion between Confession and my Nouna's repose, and the second time was so incredibly grace-filled I'm not sure my memory is accurate on some points. But there are a good many prayers that come before the Confession, and then a much shorter part after.

I'm glad to know there's a lot of variation normally then. I'm probably going to have to be told what to do if I go to anyone else then. I very much want to keep Father as my Confessor as far as possible though. Really it took some time to develop the level of trust I have and I wouldn't want to be hopping around to different priests if I can help it.

Thanks for the info.

 

[~Anastasia~]

You got it - that's when we go up to kiss the Cross and receive antidoron [ he bakes his own prosphora ]

I'm honest - till Father came we never kissed the Cross at the end - nor had antidoron . I very nearly forgot myself and cheered on his first Sunday when the server came out with a basket , and Father stood there at the [ well it's our effort at the Royal Doors ] with his hand cross. No-one moved so I started it - and still do.

Our Bishop always greets me with a triple kiss - fair astonished the Parish first time they saw me greeted that way It has to be admitted - that in many ways, were are dreadfully Latinised

Ah, I don't often see the triple kiss.

To be honest, I wouldn't even know what "Latinized" consisted of. I suppose I should find out someday. I worked on understanding the theology of the Western Catholic Church, but other than watching a couple of masses online and listening to Catholic radio a couple of times, I don't know anything about the practices.

It's a good thing you were there then to provide an example. It's always easier to have someone to follow.

 

[Anhelyna]

Kylissa - if I say that I'm the only person who stands throughout Liturgy on Sundays [ other than sitting during the Epistle , if I'm not chanting it ,and the Homily ] it should give you an idea as to things on the walls [ no NOT Icons ] and that dreadful wooden structure at the back of the Church [ ex RCs will know what I mean ] which needs an accident with an electric chain saw - well I'll spare you my comments

 

[Ignatius21]

This was sent to me today by my GodPapa - I like it and I think most folk will.

I reckon it answers a question often asked by inquirers



http://www.stgabrielashland.org/on-kissing-the-priests-hand/

I've also had a browse round the Site - I think it answers a lot of questions without going into excessive detail

"When we kiss the hand of the bishop or priest, we are not showing respect to the person of the priest but to his sacred office."

Similar to the military understanding, "Salute the office, not the man."

Different ways exist to show respect and humility. In some cultures it's bowing, others, refusing to look in someone's eye...yet others, making certain to always look in someone's eye.

What is it about hand-kissing that makes it superior to other forms of deference?

"he disappearance of this custom is part of the disintegration of traditional Christian society, which was based on hierarchy, humility, and respect. And based, of course, on love, which does not exist without respect."

This one is a little hard for me to swallow. It seems like he's associating Christianity with a particular cultural expression of deference and respect, however widespread it is, or was.

 

[~Anastasia~]

Kylissa - if I say that I'm the only person who stands throughout Liturgy on Sundays [ other than sitting during the Epistle , if I'm not chanting it ,and the Homily ] it should give you an idea as to things on the walls [ no NOT Icons ] and that dreadful wooden structure at the back of the Church [ ex RCs will know what I mean ] which needs an accident with an electric chain saw - well I'll spare you my comments

Ok then. I have NO IDEA what the structure at the back of the Church is, and other than icons or stained glass windows or bare walls, I don't know what you could have. I do know we are supposed to stand - CERTAINLY at certain parts, most especially for the reading of the Gospel and the Entrances if nothing else - even infirm people stand then if they can.

So I suppose I have no idea. I've only been inside a couple of Catholic Churches, and I can think of nothing except a crucifix (3-D) and a place where Holy Water was there. But we needn't discuss it if it's a problem in any way.

 

[~Anastasia~]

"When we kiss the hand of the bishop or priest, we are not showing respect to the person of the priest but to his sacred office."

Similar to the military understanding, "Salute the office, not the man."

Different ways exist to show respect and humility. In some cultures it's bowing, others, refusing to look in someone's eye...yet others, making certain to always look in someone's eye.

What is it about hand-kissing that makes it superior to other forms of deference?

"he disappearance of this custom is part of the disintegration of traditional Christian society, which was based on hierarchy, humility, and respect. And based, of course, on love, which does not exist without respect."

This one is a little hard for me to swallow. It seems like he's associating Christianity with a particular cultural expression of deference and respect, however widespread it is, or was.

Your post gives me some thing to mull over. I see your point, when discussing kissing the priest's hand. It isn't a hugely significant gesture, I don't think, to the point where a bow would not express the same respect for his position. Though there is the matter that his hands handle the Body and Blood, so that makes it slightly of more meaning. But I don't see it as "fawning" for example - it isn't done that way! - so really, a bow or some other gesture showing respect would have similar significance.

But ... in terms of cultural effectiveness ... My Nouna grasping my hand warmly, kissing it, and pressing it to her face - is INFINITELY different from being brought into a family where instead people give each other a polite nod of respect and acknowledgment. Again, having been part of a number of cultures, I can tell you that the effect that has on my heart - especially when the dear lady was in hospice and could no longer speak much - those deeper gestures of affection did MUCH more to bring me into an understanding of Christian love and community as it exists in our parish than a simple nod or bow would have done (though those same bows with strangers are likewise valuable).

Perhaps it's my unique experience, but I think it would run across human experience in terms of how it can affect people. Indeed, to lose it culturally (or never have it) will at least slow something beautiful happening, and I think perhaps prevent it entirely.

I would be very curious to see the effect on certain Asian cultures, for instance, and how the parish functions, as compared perhaps to a more demonstrative Latin-based culture (I chose Latins because it was a Cuban family member who was first really demonstrative with me, and you don't greet her family without LOTS of kissing and hugging involved - I thought as Southerners we were demonstrative, until I met them!).

 

[Abel Gkiouzelis]

This was sent to me today by my GodPapa - I like it and I think most folk will.

I reckon it answers a question often asked by inquirers



http://www.stgabrielashland.org/on-kissing-the-priests-hand/

I've also had a browse round the Site - I think it answers a lot of questions without going into excessive detail

So beautiful article!!!!!!