• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.

On Free Will

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by Hammster, Jul 1, 2017.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. lastofall

    lastofall Active Member

    319
    +168
    Christian
    Married
    No..and No
    As for free will [for me anyway] Christ tells us that if anyone will follow Him, they must deny their self, which is to deny (disown) our own will: this is what is free will, that we shall either freely submit to what the Lord says, or by our free will we will not submit to Him.
     
  2. Hammster

    Hammster Who has believed our report? Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

    +14,502
    United States
    Reformed
    Married
    US-Libertarian
    It looks as if we're attempting to address the OP, but I'm not exactly sure that you did.
     
  3. CodyFaith

    CodyFaith Well-Known Member Supporter

    +5,052
    Canada
    Baptist
    Single
    I don't believe caring for your own child is always natural. To good people yes, but wicked people are cruel to their children. Being a good parent involves moral choices, sacrifices, etc.

    Works does not refer to all actions and choices a person can make.
     
  4. Hammster

    Hammster Who has believed our report? Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

    +14,502
    United States
    Reformed
    Married
    US-Libertarian
    I really can't see how this addressed the OP.
     
  5. Hammster

    Hammster Who has believed our report? Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

    +14,502
    United States
    Reformed
    Married
    US-Libertarian
    Okay, but why would the natural man even try to please God?
     
  6. Hammster

    Hammster Who has believed our report? Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

    +14,502
    United States
    Reformed
    Married
    US-Libertarian
    You say no, but then go on to say that the natural man can please God (submit to Him).
     
  7. Greg Merrill

    Greg Merrill Well-Known Member Supporter

    +4,345
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    US-Republican
    In the consideration of "free will" (which I believe in) I don't understand why "the natural man" has to be brought up. The Christian man/woman who yields them self to the Holy Spirit and then is under His control, walking in the Spirit, can still believe in "free will". So why bring up the natural man? Am I missing something here?
     
  8. TheSeabass

    TheSeabass Well-Known Member

    +354
    Non-Denom
    Private
    In short, the natural man is not totally depraved, but in fact does have the ability to read the inspired word of God and understand those words and then use his free will to please God by believing and obeying those words or can choose to not believe and reject them.

    Again those preached to in Acts 2 and 7 were lost natural men, (you might say they were 'unregenerated') but they were NOT totally depraved for they were ABLE TO UNDERSTAND the inspired word preached to them and those in Acts 2 chose to believe and obey while those in Acts 7 chose not to believe.
     
  9. rockytopva

    rockytopva Love to pray! :) Supporter

    +5,994
    Pentecostal
    Single
    Paul had problems with having revival in some city and then coming back to find everything in disarray. They done well as spiritual, and then done evil as carnal. So they were once spriitual and now carnal, therefore Paul cries...

    My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you, - Galatians 4:19

    Travail in birth... Again! The second time! They went from spiritual to natural, and now Paul is trying to win them again back to spiritual. Sometimes ending up again as a natural man is a work of the flesh!
     
  10. Hammster

    Hammster Who has believed our report? Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

    +14,502
    United States
    Reformed
    Married
    US-Libertarian
    I brought it up because it's an issue that's raised frequently. People are under the impression that they can choose to believe in something simply by their free will.
     
  11. PeaceB

    PeaceB Well-Known Member

    +656
    United States
    Catholic
    Engaged
    OK, but this definition is not very helpful for the purpose of discussing the OP, because we cannot determine in any concrete fashion who this category includes and who it does not include.

    Under your definition, what objective criterion makes a man "in the flesh, not the Spirit, and spiritually dead in their sins"?

    For example, is a person who makes a sincere profession of faith in Jesus Christ, as savior and Lord, "in the flesh, not the Spirit, and spiritually dead in their sins"?

    As another example, is a baptized Christian who has not committed an unprepented mortal sin "in the flesh, not the Spirit, and spiritually dead in their sins"?
     
  12. Hammster

    Hammster Who has believed our report? Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

    +14,502
    United States
    Reformed
    Married
    US-Libertarian
    How do you know they were unregenerate when they believed? What is in that text to support your conclusion?
     
  13. Hammster

    Hammster Who has believed our report? Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

    +14,502
    United States
    Reformed
    Married
    US-Libertarian
    That wasn't even close to addressing the question. :)
     
  14. PeaceB

    PeaceB Well-Known Member

    +656
    United States
    Catholic
    Engaged
    But who believes that? That is just simple Pelagianism is it not?
     
  15. SolomonVII

    SolomonVII Well-Known Member

    +4,705
    Canada
    Catholic
    Married
    CA-Greens
    What exactly is "natural man"?
    Does any man even exist as anything other than a 'natural' ball of clay, without the breath of God, the very Spirit of God, animating him?

    I personally am not much of a dualist, seeing God as an add-on app to my corporal existence. The Spirit of God is at the very essence of who a man is.
     
  16. rockytopva

    rockytopva Love to pray! :) Supporter

    +5,994
    Pentecostal
    Single
    Maybe someone needs to come up with a "Once Spirtual Always Spiritual" doctrine asserting that we can all live forever free of the effects of the natural man!
     
  17. PeaceB

    PeaceB Well-Known Member

    +656
    United States
    Catholic
    Engaged
    Yes, but God must move towards the unbeliever first. The unbeliever will not come to God unless God first grants him grace that enables him to do so.
     
  18. Greg Merrill

    Greg Merrill Well-Known Member Supporter

    +4,345
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    US-Republican
    Interesting and I appreciate the explanation. I know there are some things that people either can't or have great difficulty believing simply by their free will, but would you say there is nothing a person can believe simply be their free will? I am honestly interested in knowing if that would really be true or not, but presently think many things can be believed simply by free will.
     
  19. Hammster

    Hammster Who has believed our report? Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

    +14,502
    United States
    Reformed
    Married
    US-Libertarian
    How about can a person who is not saved (the unregenerate) please God?
     
  20. TheSeabass

    TheSeabass Well-Known Member

    +354
    Non-Denom
    Private
    God has already "made His move" in choosing to inspire certain men (as Paul) to reveal words to thru the HS and have those inspired spiritual men write those inspired words down so the rest of us can read and understand them. So man already has the ability to understand the word of God and does not need to be 'enabled'.

    Again those in Acts 2 and Acts 7 were lost natural men. Yet they already had the ability within them to understand the inspired word of God as preached to them. God did not have to "regenerate" them or miraculously "enable them first before they could understand.

    They heard, they understood then they choose to believe or not believe.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Loading...