• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.

On Free Will

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by Hammster, Jul 1, 2017.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Anto9us

    Anto9us Ecumenical loose canon

    +1,853
    United States
    Methodist
    Private
    US-Others
    Well...
    If "Reformed theogony" is NEVER BROUGHT UP -- then there's no problem, right?

    Does "Reformed theogony" differ in any way from "Reformed theology" ?
     
    • Prayers Prayers x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • List
  2. Tolworth John

    Tolworth John Well-Known Member

    +1,963
    United Kingdom
    Non-Denom
    Married
    I understand it to mean come to saving faith in Jesus, simple because anything else is a waste of time.
     
  3. Hammster

    Hammster Every knee shall bow. Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

    +14,938
    United States
    Reformed
    Married
    US-Libertarian
    This is true. ^_^

    *fixed
     
  4. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

    +19,855
    Anglican
    Married
    All right, but the wording doesn't indicate what it is that moves him to God/Christ, right? It only speaks of those who are changed.
     
  5. Hammster

    Hammster Every knee shall bow. Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

    +14,938
    United States
    Reformed
    Married
    US-Libertarian
    Is coming to saving faith a spiritual endeavor? Does it glorify God?
     
  6. pshun2404

    pshun2404 Newbie

    +486
    Non-Denom
    Married
    The problem comes from two issues.

    a) the Roman Catholic judicial interpretation of the fall, and
    b) A misinterpretation of man's fallen condition of depravity = absolute incapability (hence Total Depravity)

    Now they had a motive, and it was to set themselves up as the sole source of truth and salvation, which was NOT of Christ. To accept that salvation DEPENDS on man's will or choice is not taught if one looks at the whole counsel of God's word but neither is it taught therein that man has no part in the process (salvation is an entirely a "by grace" process, not a single event in temporal time. God owes no man anything because all have sinned).

    When God initiates the opportunity with man to do it right (via the Spirit or the word) it is His sovereign plan that man must respond appropriately "through faith" (John 1:12; Acts 2:38; Revelations 3:20).

    I will give you one example from Genesis. In the story of Cain God audibly speaks to Cain before he chooses to kill Abel. Even though Cain had not brought the appropriate sacrifice (without blood there nis no remission)...none the less He does not condemn Cain but sincerely offers him a choice (if you go and do it right will it also not go well with thee?). He even forewarns Cain that if he does not then sin lays at the door waiting to rule over him.

    Now the Lord foreknew exactly what Cain would choose to do (because after Genesis 3:5 we desire to be our own lord) but the choice had to be his for the judgment to be just. God did NOT make Cain choose, otherwise the promise/warning was a lie, and God is NOT a man that He should lie.
     
  7. Monna

    Monna Well-Known Member

    +849
    Non-Denom
    Married
    Define 'good' and 'glorify God.'

    Is being an instrument of God a 'good' thing? and is accomplishing God's will something that 'glorifies God?'

    Nebuchadnezer was, according to Jeremiah and Ezra an instrument of God to punish his people after their constant provocation. (Ezra 5; Jeremiah 27.)

    At the same time, 1 Corinthians 13 seems to say that if anything is not done in love, it is of no value or consequence in God's eyes, and therefore would seem not to be either good or glorifying to Him. Since there is no love except what God gives us, 'unspiritual, natural' man cannot on his own do anything good or glorifying to God.

    Even non-living things can glorify God simply by their being his creations. If that is true then our very existence as human beings is a glory to God.

    Confused? I definitely am. Hence my need to find the right definition of 'good' and 'glorify God.'
     
  8. Tolworth John

    Tolworth John Well-Known Member

    +1,963
    United Kingdom
    Non-Denom
    Married
    You ask is God pleased by people seeking him.
    Well the verse say that it does and I expanded on it to say God is waiting, delaying judgement untill every Christian has been saved, so that he get the maximum glory out of his creation.
     
  9. Anto9us

    Anto9us Ecumenical loose canon

    +1,853
    United States
    Methodist
    Private
    US-Others
    Rom 2:14

    For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

    Rom 2:15

    Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another

    Rom 2:16

    In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

    -----------

    I don't know if the above passage can relate at all to the question of " can a 'natural man' do any good or whatever -- not sure...

    Actually, perhaps all "natural men", "secular humanists", or ANYONE WHO IS NOT OF THE ELECT should not be in this thread...
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2017
  10. CodyFaith

    CodyFaith Well-Known Member Supporter

    +5,055
    Canada
    Baptist
    Single
    Without freewill there is no justice.
     
  11. Anto9us

    Anto9us Ecumenical loose canon

    +1,853
    United States
    Methodist
    Private
    US-Others
    If God is sovereign, does that mean IT IS GOD'S WILL whenever the

    and that these discussions have been preordained by Him?

    I am off to a meeting where God will be talked about -- maybe even by people who might not be OF THE ELECT.

    I'll be careful, and watch out for that Secular Humanism if I can.
     
  12. CrystalDragon

    CrystalDragon Well-Known Member

    +1,597
    Catholic
    Single
    Saying that God has a divine plan completely negates any concept of free will we might have.
     
  13. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

    +19,855
    Anglican
    Married
    If you never sin but still are sent to hell, you could say that. Is this likely?
     
  14. Hammster

    Hammster Every knee shall bow. Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

    +14,938
    United States
    Reformed
    Married
    US-Libertarian
    Are you going to address the OP at any time in this thread? If not, please start whatever discussion you are trying to have in a different Thread.

    Thanks.
     
  15. Tolworth John

    Tolworth John Well-Known Member

    +1,963
    United Kingdom
    Non-Denom
    Married
    Yes.
     
  16. Hammster

    Hammster Every knee shall bow. Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

    +14,938
    United States
    Reformed
    Married
    US-Libertarian
    Okay. So seeking God is pleasing. That we can agree on.

    Can the natural man please God? I would say no. Just to clarify, are you saying he can?
     
  17. CodyFaith

    CodyFaith Well-Known Member Supporter

    +5,055
    Canada
    Baptist
    Single
    We are responsible for our sin. There is no personal responsibility or accountability without free will.

    We will be punished or rewarded justly on our moral character.
     
  18. Hammster

    Hammster Every knee shall bow. Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

    +14,938
    United States
    Reformed
    Married
    US-Libertarian
    That's cool. Care to address the OP?
     
  19. Hammster

    Hammster Every knee shall bow. Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

    +14,938
    United States
    Reformed
    Married
    US-Libertarian
    I don't see anything in those verses that say that the natural man can please God.
     
  20. CodyFaith

    CodyFaith Well-Known Member Supporter

    +5,055
    Canada
    Baptist
    Single
    "Thats cool" - language very suited for an administrator on the site.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Loading...