Old Earth Creationism

[GenemZ]

The "gap theory" claim about Genesis 1, though, is really not even relevant to a discussion of any question regarding the length of the six days of creation, since the "gap theory" people claim that the six days referred to in Genesis 1 are not really days of creation, and instead call them days of "re-creation" or something like that.

Don't reset the criterion for this thread, please.
Its title is " Old Earth Creationism."

Its not about any length of days. We need to get back on topic. So, I was on topic according to the thread's title.

These realities we see in God re-creating worlds? Worlds that cover the planet, has been revealed in the Bible so we can better understand how God operates.

For, God will do it again! And, when it happens this created world we live in will be remembered no more! This created world will become "prehistoric" to those living in the next recreation of the world for men to live in.

“Behold, I will create new heavens and a new earth. The former things will not be remembered, nor will they come to mind."
Isa 65:17​

That speaks of the Millennial earth, not the other new heavens and earth that will replace the Millennium world after the 1000 years are done. God leaves behind forgotten prehistoric worlds as to set up new classrooms for more advanced teaching of angels and men with.

I would like to get some here to get away from the speculative distraction they have walked into. "Length of days?" ... and back into what most likely really happened according to what we can know in the original languages when it comes to Gen 1:2.

For example: What I took the time to show about Jeremiah using Gen 1:2 to warn of a horrible judgement to come on the rebellious Jews in Israel? Totally ignored = inconvenient truth. Genesis 1:2 in the Hebrew indicated utter destruction and chaos. Otherwise Jeremiah would not have cited Gen 1:2 as a severe prophesy against rebellious Jews in his day.

For that reason.. It would be helpful if some here would take off their agenda blinders and stop driving home their point with tunnel vision. They must learn to consider what they do not want to accept unless they end up being a disappointment to the Lord when our time for evaluation arrives. For He was the Word made flesh.

As someone assumed earlier I am not doing this to prove how smart I am. Its to help some to not miss out and lose their rewards that the Lord wants them to enjoy in eternity. For that reason, I am willing to accept the negativity some project in a hope some will finally see what they are now failing to see.

The "gap theory" people claim that the first of those six days did not even occur until after some unspecified, immense length of time had passed after God had already, in the beginning, created the heaven and the earth.

Well it does call the light "day," and the darkness "night." And one day and night, the first day. Its quite elementary in what it expresses. (Elementary like, thou shall not eat of the tree.")

Let's consider the premise then. Consider a thousand years of light without night? It would have scorched the earth. Problem with that? The concept of what we know as daylight and nights, is just not good to accept for those who have theories that require much longer amounts of time to pass to make their desired outcome to work.

The "gap theory" people, so far as I know, do not even try to address the question of the length of time it took God to, in the beginning, create the heaven and the earth.

The Bible does not require that we know that factor. Why would we need to know?

In this case, scientific discoveries can lend a helping hand in getting a feel for what transpired in the prehistoric worlds. But, we see evolutionists running crazy with how long each era lasted as to fit their absurd evolutionary theory to make it seem plausible.

grace and peace .......

 

[Tortex Plectrum]

Don't reset the criterion for this thread, please.
Its title is " Old Earth Creationism."

Its not about any length of days. We need to get back on topic. So, I was on topic according to the thread's title.

These realities we see in God re-creating worlds? Worlds that cover the planet, has been revealed in the Bible so we can better understand how God operates.

For, God will do it again! And, when it happens this created world we live in will be remembered no more! This created world will become "prehistoric" to those living in the next recreation of the world for men to live in.

“Behold, I will create new heavens and a new earth. The former things will not be remembered, nor will they come to mind."
Isa 65:17​

That speaks of the Millennial earth, not the other new heavens and earth that will replace the Millennium world after the 1000 years are done. God leaves behind forgotten prehistoric worlds as to set up new classrooms for more advanced teaching of angels and men with.

I would like to get some here to get away from the speculative distraction they have walked into. "Length of days?" ... and back into what most likely really happened according to what we can know in the original languages when it comes to Gen 1:2.

For example: What I took the time to show about Jeremiah using Gen 1:2 to warn of a horrible judgement to come on the rebellious Jews in Israel? Totally ignored = inconvenient truth. Genesis 1:2 in the Hebrew indicated utter destruction and chaos. Otherwise Jeremiah would not have cited Gen 1:2 as a severe prophesy against rebellious Jews in his day.

For that reason.. It would be helpful if some here would take off their agenda blinders and stop driving home their point with tunnel vision. They must learn to consider what they do not want to accept unless they end up being a disappointment to the Lord when our time for evaluation arrives. For He was the Word made flesh.

As someone assumed earlier I am not doing this to prove how smart I am. Its to help some to not miss out and lose their rewards that the Lord wants them to enjoy in eternity. For that reason, I am willing to accept the negativity some project in a hope some will finally see what they are now failing to see.



Well it does call the light "day," and the darkness "night." And one day and night, the first day. Its quite elementary in what it expresses. (Elementary like, thou shall not eat of the tree.")

Let's consider the premise then. Consider a thousand years of light without night? It would have scorched the earth. Problem with that? The concept of what we know as daylight and nights, is just not good to accept for those who have theories that require much longer amounts of time to pass to make their desired outcome to work.




The Bible does not require that we know that factor. Why would we need to know?

In this case, scientific discoveries can lend a helping hand in getting a feel for what transpired in the prehistoric worlds. But, we see evolutionists running crazy with how long each era lasted as to fit their absurd evolutionary theory to make it seem plausible.

grace and peace .......

You say:

I was on topic according to the thread's title.

Who cares whether or not you were "on topic according to the thread's title"? You were off topic according the post of mine to which you chose to address your response post. Why did you bother to address your post to my post, seeing as what you wrote in it is irrelevant to what I had written in my post?

And, in any case, what does your "gap theory" have to do with any thread featuring the word, "creationism," in its title? All you are doing is talking about a period of time AFTER the beginning—AFTER God had ALREADY created the heaven and the earth—and claiming that Genesis 1:2 and beyond is not even referring to that event of God's creating the heaven and the earth.

 

[GenemZ]

And, in any case, what does your "gap theory" have to do with any thread featuring the word, "creationism," in its title? All you are doing is talking about a period of time AFTER the beginning—AFTER God had ALREADY created the heaven and the earth—and claiming that Genesis 1:2 and beyond is not even referring to that event of God's creating the heaven and the earth.

God created the heavens and earth in the beginning..... Established.

It was "created" before Day One took place.

Now, what happened between the creation in the beginning, and Day One in Genesis One? What took place that caused the earth to later be found as a chaotic ruin and having an eerie sense of emptiness about it?

In the Hebrew Tohu wabohu " gets erroneously translated with a very mild "without form and void." It misleads the English reader into thinking it was just another phase in establishing the creation of our world. But, the Hebrew indicates in a strong way that something had placed the surface of the earth into a state of utter destruction and emptiness...

Jeremiah was warning rebellious Jews about the doom that was about to come over them. They spoke Hebrew and were familiar with Genesis 1:2 in the Hebrew. Jeremiah was telling them that they were going to get the same fate as the earth got as found in Gen 1:2.

But, Jeremiah had to add something different to his prophecy when citing Gen 1:2. That in Israel's case? That unlike the utter judgement seen in Gen 1:2? In the rebellious Jews case, God will spare them of total destruction. That it will not be the utter destruction as found in Gen 1:2! The Hebrew the Jews understood!

Ignorance of what the Word of God tells us in the original languages has launched hundreds of false doctrines. False doctrines that will intrigue certain curious minds who love to speculate. Speculate about possibilities, as if they were writing an exciting fantasy novel. Just the same... why do it when the Truth can be strange enough as is if they would only seek to find it.

How many times must this be shown?
Did you read what Jeremiah hit the rebellious Jews over the head with? It was Gen 1:2! Its not about being "without form and void." If it did? Jeremiah would have make no sense in his ripping into the Jews.

Again, after citing Gen 1:2? Jeremiah had to clarify that their destruction will be not like what is seen in Gen 1:2. That God in their case will spare some lives and not have it be an utter destruction like found in Gen 1:2!!!

Gen 1:2 unfolds for the Hebrew reader with a ruined and emptiness feeling earth by God's judgment! Jeremiah was using Gen 1:2 to show the Jews what God's judgment will be for them. These Jews were holding sex orgies in the 'high places' that involved child sacrifices while the orgy was going on! Serious judgment was coming their way? Gen 1:2, type judgement!

Jeremiah 4:22-27

For my people is foolish, they have not known me; they are sottish children, and they have none understanding: they are wise to do evil, but to do good they have no knowledge.

I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light. (Look! Jeremiah just quoted Gen 1:2! Same Hebrew words appear)

I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.

I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.

I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the Lord, and by his fierce anger.

This is what the Lord says:

“The whole land will be ruined,
though I will not destroy it completely."

(Jeremiah needed to add that God will spare some of them. Why? For, Genesis 1:2 involved what was an utter and complete destruction! That is what Genesis 1:2 is about in the Hebrew! )​

If you do not desire to study what Jeremiah said? It shows you do not want to understand what he was revealing about the earth being found in utter ruin and desolation as found in Gen 1:2 in the Hebrew!

The real question should be?

What took place prior the creation of our present world, and after the heavens and earth had been created in the beginning?

That is the gap that must be figured out by learning more and more knowledge of God's Word.

Answers are being supplied by God' grace for those who walk in it.

grace and peace ........

 

[Buzzard3]

How we know the creation account is literal:

• The account of creation, as written by Moses, was God-breathed and meticulously worded—for man.
• God spoke things into existence, which is instantaneous. He could've created all things in one day if He had wanted to. The keeping of time is deliberate—for man (Genesis 1:3, Genesis 1:6, Genesis 1:9, Genesis 1:11, Genesis 1:14, Genesis 1:20, Genesis 1:24, Genesis 1:26).
  • God set forth the concept of a literal 24-hour day from the outset on day one—for man. Genesis 1:5, Mark 13:19
    
  • God created for six consecutive days—for man. (Genesis 1, Genesis 1:26)
  • The end of each creation day is deliberately recorded—for man. (Genesis 1:4, Genesis 1:10, Genesis 1:12, Genesis 1:18, Genesis 1:21, Genesis 1:25)
    
  • God rested on the seventh day, blessing and sanctifying it as a memorial of creation (Genesis 2:1-3)—for man (Mark 2:27).
• If God had intended for the creation days to be eons or some other indeterminate amount of time, He would not have created the concept of the 24-hour day on the first day of creation. God effectively started time—for man—before man was even created, signifying a literal plan—a clockwork that would continue until the second coming.
• God has no constraints, but deliberately observed time with purpose and intent, so that we would take notice and come to the understanding that the creation account happened exactly as described; in a literal six days, with one day of rest. In observing the time of man, God set forth an example—for man.
• To this day, man observes the seven day week that God set forth at creation. Man lives within the constraints that God set on day one. God's design was for man to work for six days of the week and observe the seventh as a holy day of rest and worship, a memorial of creation that venerates our Creator.

You make some valid points, but I think the "six days" of creation is a symbolic representation of a creation that took much longer. The best guide to interpreting Genesis is geology, including the fossil record, which strongly suggests life exited on earth long before Adam was created.
Btw, I don't buy the evolution tale, which I think is mostly a bedtime story for atheists.

 

[GenemZ]

You make some valid points, but I think the "six days" of creation is a symbolic representation of a creation that took much longer.

Why should it have to take much longer? What reason?

One thing that is missing is the fact that other worlds were created and ended prior to this one. That is why certain geologists can see evidence of a long span of things without realizing Genesis One only speaks of our present created world.

What too many miss because of popular traditional thinking.
Without Form and Void - Chapter 1

The author.
The Arthur C. Custance Centre

 

[BPPLEE]

I'm not quite sure what I believe about the days of Genesis. I have seen many arguments for the old earth perspective that the six days of the creation week are not meant to be literal 24 hour days, but rather long periods of time.

I do find old earth creationism compelling on the surface, but I find some difficulties in reconciling it with Scripture.

For example, Exodus 20:11 seems to reinforce the young earth view that it actually was six literal days.

I feel like if we were not meant to take the Creation Week as six 24 hour days, then I don't think it would have been reiterated in the 10 Commandments.

What are your thoughts?

 

[BPPLEE]

A good resource for this issue is The Answers books from Answers In Genesis. I don't agree with everything in them but the authors do a really good job of making the case for a young earth. There are so many problems with evolution and what we've been told about the earth and the universe being billions of years old these books are amazing

 

[GenemZ]

A good resource for this issue is The Answers books from Answers In Genesis. I don't agree with everything in them but the authors do a really good job of making the case for a young earth. There are so many problems with evolution and what we've been told about the earth and the universe being billions of years old these books are amazing

This current created world on the surface of the earth is young. It is relatively young.

But, other created worlds graced the surface of the earth before ours did.

And, once again, God will replace the old with the new ... this current world will become prehistoric and remembered no more.

We will become the prehistoric age to those in the future!

“See, I will create
new heavens and a new earth.
The former things will not be remembered,
nor will they come to mind." Isa 65:17​

Its the way God operates.

When He is finished teaching creation on a certain level? He replaces the old classroom with a new one on a higher level of learning!

“See, I will create
new heavens and a new earth.
The former things will not be remembered,
nor will they come to mind." Isa 65:17​

The world of dinosaurs would have never come to mind if it were not for the discovery of their fossil remains.

 

[Buzzard3]

A good resource for this issue is The Answers books from Answers In Genesis. I don't agree with everything in them but the authors do a really good job of making the case for a young earth. There are so many problems with evolution and what we've been told about the earth and the universe being billions of years old these books are amazing

... and profession geologists would disagree with all their young earth claims.

There is ZERO scientific evidence that the Genesis "six days" of creation were literal days. Conversely, there is a LOT of scientific evidence that suggests life on earth existed long before Adam was created.

 

[GenemZ]

This is a great read...

And, its free online.

Without Form and Void - Frontpage​

 

[GenemZ]

I'm not quite sure what I believe about the days of Genesis. I have seen many arguments for the old earth perspective that the six days of the creation week are not meant to be literal 24 hour days, but rather long periods of time.

I do find old earth creationism compelling on the surface, but I find some difficulties in reconciling it with Scripture.

For example, Exodus 20:11 seems to reinforce the young earth view that it actually was six literal days.

I feel like if we were not meant to take the Creation Week as six 24 hour days, then I don't think it would have been reiterated in the 10 Commandments.

What are your thoughts?

It took God six days for this created world's creation... Beneath our world are very old previous creations. Created worlds that were delegated to angels. Our created world was originally intended to be delegated to man. When Adam fell Satan won back by default rulership.

Much confusion stems from the ignorance of there having been much older creations that were judged and now defunct. Many scientists do not know what to make of it, unless they become students of the Word of God being taught from the original languages.

 

[PrincetonGuy]

This is a great read...

And, its free online.

Without Form and Void - Frontpage​

Great reads do not totally ignore the interpretation of Genesis 1-2 by the vast majority of scholars of the Hebrew text of Genesis during the past 130 years. See, for example, Claus Westermann’s 636-page commentary on the Hebrew text of Genesis 1-11, and the commentaries on the Hebrew text of Genesis by Gerhard von Rad and Ephraim A. Speiser.

 

[PrincetonGuy]

... and profession geologists would disagree with all their young earth claims.

There is ZERO scientific evidence that the Genesis "six days" of creation were literal days. Conversely, there is a LOT of scientific evidence that suggests life on earth existed long before Adam was created.

Genesis is not a scientific treatise on the creation of the earth, but collections of severely redacted epic tales, sagas, myths and legends. In these epic tales, sagas, myths and legends, the days were understood to be literal 24-hour days.

 

[GenemZ]

Genesis is not a scientific treatise on the creation of the earth, but collections of severely redacted epic tales, sagas, myths and legends. In these epic tales, sagas, myths and legends, the days were understood to be literal 24-hour days.

Of course,,,, obviously. Everyone knows that. Why you telling us then?

 

[BPPLEE]

Genesis is not a scientific treatise on the creation of the earth, but collections of severely redacted epic tales, sagas, myths and legends. In these epic tales, sagas, myths and legends, the days were understood to be literal 24-hour days.

If these are tales, myths, sagas and legends was Adam a real person? Without an Adam who sinned their is no need for a Savior, no need for Jesus to die for our sins.

 

[GenemZ]

If these are tales, myths, sagas and legends was Adam a real person? Without an Adam who sinned their is no need for a Savior, no need for Jesus to die for our sins.

His kind of argument is used as a feeler to see how weak we are....

I used to not understand why some people make themselves study the Bible to find what they can do to obscure it, or contradict it. Why do they see "fantasy believers" as something worth investing time in?

Its all political. For they see Christians as a political force that frustrates their goals for society. They want to silence Christianity as a myth.

 

[BPPLEE]

His kind of argument is used as a feeler to see how weak we are....

I used to not understand why some people make themselves study the Bible to find what they can do to obscure it, or contradict it. Why do they see "fantasy believers" as something worth investing time in?

Its all political. For they see Christians as a political force that frustrates their goals for society. They want to silence Christianity as a myth.

I'm new here but I've noticed in some of the other topics some people come here just to attack and argue.

 

[GenemZ]

I'm new here but I've noticed in some of the other topics some people come here just to attack and argue.

Yup... they never took and submitted their 'gaslighting' flesh to the Cross where it belongs. Belongs if they are ever to finally find out what it means to be "in Christ."

Gas lighters are compensating for suppressed feelings of inferiority that they can not resolve. So, they set forth to prove they are not inferior by making others feel inferior to them with how they argue.

If they would only discover who and what they are in the power of the Spirit filling them, they would overcome those feelings of inferiority in knowing with certainty what they are destined to be in Christ.

Gaslighting is a form of psychological manipulation in which the abuser attempts to sow self-doubt and confusion in their victim's mind. Typically, gaslighters are seeking to gain power and control over the other person, by distorting reality and forcing them to question their own judgment and intuition.

How to Tell If Someone Is Gaslighting You​

 

[PrincetonGuy]

If these are tales, myths, sagas and legends was Adam a real person? Without an Adam who sinned their is no need for a Savior, no need for Jesus to die for our sins.

Romans 3:21. But now, apart from law, the righteousness of God has been disclosed, and is attested by the law and the prophets,
22. the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction,
23. since all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God;
24. they are now justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,
25. whom God put forward as a sacrifice of atonement by his blood, effective through faith. (NRSV)

 

[BPPLEE]

Romans 3:21. But now, apart from law, the righteousness of God has been disclosed, and is attested by the law and the prophets,
22. the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction,
23. since all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God;
24. they are now justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,
25. whom God put forward as a sacrifice of atonement by his blood, effective through faith. (NRSV)

Rom 5:12

¶
Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
Rom 5:13

(For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
Rom 5:14

Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
Rom 5:15

But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.