Old Earth Creationism

[ChristServant]

I'm not quite sure what I believe about the days of Genesis. I have seen many arguments for the old earth perspective that the six days of the creation week are not meant to be literal 24 hour days, but rather long periods of time.

I do find old earth creationism compelling on the surface, but I find some difficulties in reconciling it with Scripture.

For example, Exodus 20:11 seems to reinforce the young earth view that it actually was six literal days.

I feel like if we were not meant to take the Creation Week as six 24 hour days, then I don't think it would have been reiterated in the 10 Commandments.

What are your thoughts?

All a Christian needs to know concerning the OP question is that GOD made the Heavens and the Earth and all within and this cannot be disputed. Anything else will cause a division so do not entertain it.

Even with knowledge multiplying at a hugh rate as never before, we still know absolutely nothing with all the knowledge we've collected compared to everything in creation.

Peace be to all those in the Body of Christ.

 

[GenemZ]

And that because God referred to "evenings and mornings" before there was even a sun, that this and the structures layout of Genesis implies a timeless creation rather than a conchordist day-to-day creation.

You never put it together?

In the future there will be no more sun. But, the Lamb will provide the light. You did not know this?

The Lord Himself provided the light of the first few days. The angels watching assumed it was going to be business as usual. Then... the sun was introduced for the job. For it says the Lord "made" them (sun, moon, stars) to bear light. For, they had been already "created" awaiting for the Lord to turn them on.

Before our world, Lucifer and the morning stars were guiding luminaries in the sky for effecting the prehistoric life on the earth.

Matter of fact. Isaiah even went as far as to say that Lucifer used to bring in the morning light of each new day.

Lots you do not yet understand.

But, you seem to want to stand in the way of those who do.

 

[Job 33:6]

You never put it together?

In the future there will be no more sun. But, the Lamb will provide the light. You did not know this?

And, Lucifer and the morning stars were guiding luminaries in the sky for effecting the prehistoric life on the earth. Matter of fact. Isaiah even went as far as to say that Lucifer used to bring in the morning light of each new day.

Lots you do not yet understand.

But, you seem to want to stand in the way of those who do.

I'm comfortable standing by Saint Augustine and Saint Thomas Aquinas, Claus Westermann and Paul Seely on this one. Thanks.

Gavin Ortlund has been pretty active in this topic as of lately as well. Another good source on theology.

 

[GenemZ]

I'm comfortable standing by Saint Augustine and Saint Thomas Aquinas, Claus Westermann and Paul Seely on this one. Thanks.

Gavin Ortlund has been pretty active in this topic as of lately as well. Another good source on theology.

So Christ himself gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the pastors and teachers, to equip his people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ.

Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of people in their deceitful scheming. Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will grow to become in every respect the mature body of him who is the head, that is, Christ. From him the whole body, joined and held together by every supporting ligament, grows and builds itself up in love, as each part does its work.​

Ephesians 4:11-16

 

[Job 33:6]

Amen

 

[GenemZ]

I'm comfortable standing by Saint Augustine and Saint Thomas Aquinas, Claus Westermann and Paul Seely on this one. Thanks.

Gavin Ortlund has been pretty active in this topic as of lately as well. Another good source on theology.

That does nothing to answer what I stated.

Is that your way of saying? "Don't bother me with the facts?"

The prehistoric world had a different modus operandi for daylight, mornings... and stars. You missed that?

 

[Job 33:6]

That does nothing to answer what I stated.

Is that your way of saying? "Don't bother me with the facts?"

The prehistoric world had a different modus operandi for daylight, mornings... and stars. You missed that?

I saw that you had quoted a verse, I thought it was a good verse and I said amen. What else might you have expected?

 

[coffee4u]

that the six days of the creation week are not meant to be literal 24 hour days, but rather long periods of time.

Adam and Eve were made on day 6
Genesis 1
27 So God created mankind in his own image,
in the image of God he created them;
male and female he created them.

31 God saw all that he had made, and it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning—the sixth day.

Adam dies 930 years later
Genesis 5
1 This is the written account of Adam’s family line.

When God created mankind, he made them in the likeness of God. 2 He created them male and female and blessed them. And he named them “Mankind” when they were created.

3 When Adam had lived 130 years, he had a son in his own likeness, in his own image; and he named him Seth. 4 After Seth was born, Adam lived 800 years and had other sons and daughters. 5 Altogether, Adam lived a total of 930 years, and then he died.

How could Adam die 930 years later if each day was a long time?
I assume when you say "long time" you mean million of years.

 

[GenemZ]

I saw that you had quoted a verse, I thought it was a good verse and I said amen. What else might you have expected?

Sorry... I was hoping you would comment on what I shared here:
Old Earth Creationism

 

[GenemZ]

Adam and Eve were made on day 6
Genesis 1
27 So God created mankind in his own image,
in the image of God he created them;
male and female he created them.

31 God saw all that he had made, and it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning—the sixth day.

You are still failing to differentiate between creating something. And, making something.

You take vegetables, some meat, water, herbs, salt... and you "make a soup."

You create vegetables, some meat, water, herbs, salt.. in order to make that soup.

If you cannot discern the difference? Evolutionists with enough data they know they can trust, will sneer inwardly and thank themselves for never believing in God.

Glorifying Christ does not guarantee another person having contact with you will believe. Glorifying Christ guarantees they will be without excuse when they demanded to justify themselves when standing before the Judge for not believing.

A skilled debater can win an argument from whatever side she so chooses. That is, as long as the other one being debated is sufficiently ignorant of the facts.

In this case? You lose. You do not have sufficient knowledge. Yet, you keep pounding home the same irrelevant points, and then act like I am not getting it.

This is not a wiser woman vs a dumb male situation. Drop the pride, and start looking at the truth. The truth you keep pushing aside.

Likewise you younger people, submit yourselves to your elders.
Yes, all of you be submissive to one another, and be clothed with humility, for

“God resists the proud,
But gives grace to the humble.”

Therefore humble yourselves under the mighty hand of God,
that He may exalt you in due time." ​

1 Peter 5:5-6

If you were not continuously turning a blind eye and a deaf ear to what you have been shown about how the Hebrew works? That passage would not have come to mind when posting this. For, you keep refusing to acknowledge good information that will prove to be helpful in understanding other passages in the future...

In the mean time.

grace and peace .........

 

[coffee4u]

You are still failing to differentiate between creating something. And, making something.

You take vegetables, some meat, water, herbs, salt... and you "make a soup."

You create vegetables, some meat, water, herbs, salt.. in order to make that soup.

If you cannot discern the difference? Evolutionists with enough data they know they can trust, will sneer inwardly and thank themselves for never believing in God.

Glorifying Christ does not guarantee another person having contact with you will believe. Glorifying Christ guarantees they will be without excuse when they demanded to justify themselves when standing before the Judge for not believing.

A skilled debater can win an argument from whatever side she so chooses. That is, as long as the other one being debated is sufficiently ignorant of the facts.

In this case? You lose. You do not have sufficient knowledge. Yet, you keep pounding home the same irrelevant points, and then act like I am not getting it.

This is not a wiser woman vs a dumb male situation. Drop the pride, and start looking at the truth. The truth you keep pushing aside.

Likewise you younger people, submit yourselves to your elders.
Yes, all of you be submissive to one another, and be clothed with humility, for

“God resists the proud,
But gives grace to the humble.”

Therefore humble yourselves under the mighty hand of God,
that He may exalt you in due time." ​

1 Peter 5:5-6

If you were not continuously turning a blind eye and a deaf ear to what you have been shown about how the Hebrew works? That passage would not have come to mind when posting this. For, you keep refusing to acknowledge good information that will prove to be helpful in understanding other passages in the future...

In the mean time.

grace and peace .........

genez I am not talking to you here but to 9Rock9.

You are wrong about the Hebrew. I have already explained to you that scripture uses both words interchangeably. That there is no case to be made upon create vs made.

I don't care what evolutionists think they know, and you shouldn't care either. They are blinded by Satan.
I will not make any kind of concession towards them. There so called proofs is nothing more than numbers built upon assumptions, assumptions that cannot be proved.

Exodus 20
And God spoke all these words:
11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

Does God not know everything? His word does not show any pre-world, it shows this world, created, then fallen. A dinosaur fossil is nothing more than an animal that got buried and died most likely during the global flood.

I am looking at the proof, the proof is God's world because we know God cannot lie and we know that ultimate truth and knowledge come from Him.
His word says he created over 6 days, his word shows that Job had experience with dinosaurs-man and dinosaur lived together- so stop running scared of people who wave around a fossil claiming its 'millions of years' old and realize their methods of dating are wrong and false.

1 Peter 5:5-6
So now you want to pull the age card?
I am not as old as you this is true, I am not young but neither am I yet retired. That is as much as I will say about my age.
I have been a Christian for 31 years and I have had faith in 6 days of creation for approximately 30 of them, taught by a wise old man who knew his scripture very well. He showed me how the entire Bible upholds 6 day creation. He was older then you are now.
I don't know where you got this teaching on some pre-world but it isn't scriptural.

 

[GenemZ]

genez I am not talking to you here but to 9Rock9.

You are wrong about the Hebrew. I have already explained to you that scripture uses both words interchangeably. That there is no case to be made upon create vs made.

Advice. Don't debate a rabbi who is a scholar.

Only debate those who are liberals.

Many Gentiles do not know the Hebrew meanings well enough.

 

[GenemZ]

1 Peter 5:5-6
So now you want to pull the age card?
I am not as old as you this is true, I am not young but neither am I yet retired. That is as much as I will say about my age.
I have been a Christian for 31 years and I have had faith in 6 days of creation for approximately 30 of them, taught by a wise old man who knew his scripture very well. He showed me how the entire Bible upholds 6 day creation. He was older then you are now.
I don't know where you got this teaching on some pre-world but it isn't scriptural.

Its nothing to do with physical age. One can be ninety years old, yet a baby in Christ.

God wants us all to mature in Christ., That kind of aging is by choice.

 

[GenemZ]

1 Peter 5:5-6
So now you want to pull the age card?
I am not as old as you this is true, I am not young but neither am I yet retired. That is as much as I will say about my age.
I have been a Christian for 31 years and I have had faith in 6 days of creation for approximately 30 of them, taught by a wise old man who knew his scripture very well. He showed me how the entire Bible upholds 6 day creation. He was older then you are now.
I don't know where you got this teaching on some pre-world but it isn't scriptural.

Two centuries later, Thomas Aquinas (1226 -1274) reiterated this view when he wrote:

Sed melior videtur dicendum quod creatio fuerit
aute omnen diem...​

ie. "but it seems better to maintain (the view) that the creation was prior to any of the days (literally, before any day)."

St. Thomas evidently considered that the first day was not to be equated with the time of creation itself. This first day came later:
he does not suggest how much later.
Without Form and Void - Chapter 1​

There was a six day "making" of our present world. Six days for this world we are living in.

We have no idea what time was required for the prehistoric worlds that preceded our present heavens and earth.. for the Bible does not tell us.

Nor does the Bible tell us how many years before man was created that God created the angels. But, we can know that the angels were a prehistoric creation of God.

Here's the problem"

In debates I have been in in the past Evolutionists loved debating young earth creationist. For they were like shooting ducks on the water for them. But, when I began to show them about the GAP found in Genesis 1:2? They wanted to duck the issue.

They suddenly became sort of like what you do when I begin to stress that "made" [asah] and "create" [bara] held different meanings to the Jews.

The "bara" creating is only to be found in relation to God. For only God can create something out from nothing. When it comes to "asah?" That can be used in relation to man, angels, animals, and God.....

I am not trying to trick you. I am trying to clarify something that Evolutionists find to be very convenient when a Christian is ignorant of this factor to be found in the Hebrew texts.

Yes,,, this world was made in six days. The prehistoric creation had its "making" as well. I am not trying to include the prehistoric worlds into our time frame as to make it more than six days. They are two different created worlds.

 

[coffee4u]

Its nothing to do with physical age. One can be ninety years old, yet a baby in Christ.

God wants us all to mature in Christ., That kind of aging is by choice.

We already had this conversation and as I said then there is nothing wrong with a person being a babe in Christ since we all started there. I am not, as I already told you, so since this topic has already been covered and put away what else would I assume you mean but physical age?

Either you memory is lacking or this is an example of the cheap tricks you bring out to try and discredit those who disagree with you.

 

[Job 33:6]

Sorry... I was hoping you would comment on what I shared here:
Old Earth Creationism

I replied here:
Old Earth Creationism

Not sure if there is a particular concept that you'd like to discuss.

 

[GenemZ]

We already had this conversation and as I said then there is nothing wrong with a person being a babe in Christ since we all started there.

But, to stay there after 31 years?

I have been a Christian for 31 years and I have had faith in 6 days of creation for approximately 30 of them, taught by a wise old man who knew his scripture very well.

We all need to never stop growing till we leave this earth.

 

[GenemZ]

I replied here:
Old Earth Creationism

Not sure if there is a particular concept that you'd like to discuss.

Yes...

Why we have certain angels called "morning stars." Only some are. And, why the one we now call Satan in one translation calls him "Lucifer." For he was the one who produced the morning light for the days in the prehistoric worlds.



Isaiah 14:12 Amplified Bible

How have you fallen from heaven, O light-bringer and daystar, son of
the morning! How you have been cut down to the ground, you who
weakened and laid low the nations."​

...............

 

[Job 33:6]

Yes...

Why we have certain angels called "morning stars." Only some are. And, why the one we now call Satan in one translation calls him "Lucifer." For he was the one who produced the morning light for the days in the prehistoric worlds.



Isaiah 14:12 Amplified Bible

How have you fallen from heaven, O light-bringer and daystar, son of
the morning! How you have been cut down to the ground, you who
weakened and laid low the nations."​

...............

Job 38:7 also refers to the same.

Many planets were referred to as stars, as were things like comets. They were later given the names of gods because they were believed to be controlled by divine beings because they moved independently of the other stars (actual stars).

Many concepts of the prehistoric world can be difficult to understand. I wouldn't claim to otherwise know about this particular verse. Job also refers to the firmament as spread out like molten mirror. But it's not that there was a metal dome in the sky holding up the stars, but rather the psalmist and job and others, they all had a completely different prehistoric pre-scientific perspective on creation as a whole.

The Ancient Universe and the Cosmic Temple - Articles

Here's a link that further discussed the topic and morning stars.

 

[GenemZ]

Job 38:7 also refers to the same.

Many planets were referred to as stars, as were things like comets. They were later given the names of gods because they were believed to be controlled by divine beings because they moved independently of the other stars (actual stars).

Many concepts of the prehistoric world can be difficult to understand. I wouldn't claim to otherwise know about this particular verse. Job also refers to the firmament as spread out like molten mirror. But it's not that there was a metal dome in the sky holding up the stars, but rather the psalmist and job and others, they all had a completely different prehistoric pre-scientific perspective on creation as a whole.

The Ancient Universe and the Cosmic Temple - Articles

Here's a link that further discussed the topic and morning stars.

There were humanoids back then,. But, not human beings like we are now. For our souls have been created in God's image. The humanoids on the other hand, were most likely the highest form of animal in its intelligence and abilities to survive.

Jeremiah spoke of some generic type humanoid that was utterly destroyed (extinct) when Jeremiah was giving the rebellious Jews a prophetic threat of tremendous judgment that was about to befall the nation of Israel. The professor who taught ancient languages at my Bible college explained that the Hebrew word for 'man' was a generic use. Hence, a humanoid type man. Primitive in comparison with our souls.

Jeremiah 4:22-27

“My people are fools;
they do not know me.
They are senseless children;
they have no understanding.
They are skilled in doing evil;
they know not how to do good.”

I looked at the earth,
and it was formless and empty; (Gen 1:2)
and at the heavens,
and their light was gone.
I looked at the mountains,
and they were quaking;
all the hills were swaying.

I looked, and there were no people; (generic term for a man)
every bird in the sky had flown away.
I looked, and the fruitful land was a desert;
all its towns lay in ruins
before the Lord, before his fierce anger.

This is what the Lord says:
“The whole land will be ruined,
though I will not destroy it completely."
​

Jeremiah quoted Genesis 1:2 to reveal how severe their judgement will be! All life will be destroyed if it became like Genesis 1:2. For Jeremiah had to add at the very end, that unlike Genesis 1:2, they will not be completely destroyed!

This is what the Lord says:
“The whole land will be ruined,
though I will not destroy it completely."


In other words? Jeremiah did quote Genesis 1:2, but needed to differentiate that what the Jews will be facing would not be as severe. For the earth had been completely destroyed as read in the Hebrew of Genesis 1:2!

The Jews hearing Jeremiah knew what Genesis 1:2 meant in the Hebrew!

Its we who do not speak ancient Hebrew who argue and are the dopes today.

The Truth will set you free from spin and misinformation.

In Christ ........