Of course your past, present, and future sins are already forgiven! (Moved)

[mourningdove~]

Can I ask why you continue to interject and attempt to explain frogster's beliefs to me??
This is the second time you have done this to me today ...

Why does it bother you?

Though you have not yet explained 'why' you did it ... I do apologize for not knowing that you not only speak for yourself here in the forum but also for Frogster.

 

[ToBeBlessed]

I will say this.

Anyone that has been around this Sprit Filled/Charismatic forum for any length of time knows Frogster. He is very consistent in what he says and he usually can state clearly why he believes what he believes and the biblical justification behind it.

I think Onlybygrace84 is referring to Frogster's post and his understanding of what Frogster is saying because Onlybygrace84 put what Frogster was writing in a biblical context.

They are both very intelligent and have a good knowledge of the Word.

 

[murjahel]

According to you, I should not be in Christ. I should be someone else, the 'politically correct' Christian. The conscious sinner. It's not that cut and dry, unless I have the abnormal Christian life, which may be what I have.

So who am I in Christ? In your opinion? Am I the most inwardly ugly sinful person or just a sinner making their way?
Christians are obsessed with one another's sin. Is it because to look at others is to not focus on yourself? You define me. You tell me who I am. You tell me what God means to me.

YOU DONT KNOW ME. STOP DEFINING ME AND MY SIN. I AM UNIQUE. GOD MADE ME THAT WAY. GOD.

If people keep grouping everyone in 'one nice little group', then I feel obligated to tell such people to stop 'grouping everyone into nice little groups'.

I'm sure I will be repenting for this tonight.

My post addressed no one personally,... I did not say 'all', nor 'many' but used the word 'some'.... So what makes you feel it pertains to you?

We are to preach and teach against sin, Jesus did, the disciples did, and we are to also... Sin has an easy remedy due to Jesus' atonement... and it is no longer an insurmountable problem... We still battle it... but to put our head in a bag, and pretend it is not still something that we need to avoid, or repent of if we don't avoid it... is not the answer.

 

[Frogster]

guilt and shame are ours to deal with. I think what frog is trying to say is when we realize who we are in Christ, the righteousness of God, not because of our works but because of faith in him, the guilt and shame go away. God's love is in us already by the Holy Spirit, we can't earn freedom by how good we are, some here teach that. Only by accepting our position before the Father in Jesus, can we be free from the guilt the shame the "sin conscious" old man that plagues people.

By grace, by Christ
Not works or merit...

I think that is what frog is saying or something similar...

Thanks, and a hearty amen!

 

[Frogster]

I will say this.

Anyone that has been around this Sprit Filled/Charismatic forum for any length of time knows Frogster. He is very consistent in what he says and he usually can state clearly why he believes what he believes and the biblical justification behind it.

I think Onlybygrace84 is referring to Frogster's post and his understanding of what Frogster is saying because Onlybygrace84 put what Frogster was writing in a biblical context.

They are both very intelligent and have a good knowledge of the Word.

Thank you sis, and you say sound biblical points too.

 

[gideons300]

Hi,
The scripture says the evidence of being saved by is, that his Spirit bears witness with mine.

Grace to you.

It also says that the heart is deceitful above all things. If we have new hearts, THEN it can bear true witness. But our old hearts...our flesh? Do not listen to a thing it whispers. It wants to live.

If we say we are saved, and yet God is not producing fruits of righteousness in us, what does that tell us? That is why we "shall know them by their fruits".

If we see people in church that are in desperate need, and we say "God bless you, be warmed and filled" and even pray with them, and have the ability to help them, what does the word tell us. "How does the love of God dwell there" if we close up our hearts and walk away? The answer is, and many will not like it, is..... IT DOESN'T.

I say this not to place guilt on people but for all to really examine themselves as the word directs us whether we really are in the faith or are we relying on a long past one time prayer? The goal of a post like this is simple...to awaken us from our sleep and to see that what God promises us is far more than we are presently experiencing.

No more consciousness of sins? That is our birthright. Do we enjoy such a place of heart rest or do we have to assure ourselves when others quote it that we are no longer sinners.

No more condemnation to them that believe? Praise God, yes! But memorizing the verse does NOTHING to get the condemnation out of our own hearts.

Why is there so few of our prayers answered? Because if our hearts condemn us, God is greater than our hearts and knows all things. How can we exercise faith with guilt in our hearts? Do we not see that our fleshly hearts go part and parcel with guilt and condemnation? There is a way to get free, but we cannot see it until we cry out for deliverance from fleshly hearts and sins that we feel hardly ang guilt for any longer.

It is time we got serious about ourt eternities. The last day is NOT that time.

I love you all.

Gideon

 

[ToBeBlessed]

My post addressed no one personally,... I did not say 'all', nor 'many' but used the word 'some'.... So what makes you feel it pertains to you?

We are to preach and teach against sin, Jesus did, the disciples did, and we are to also... Sin has an easy remedy due to Jesus' atonement... and it is no longer an insurmountable problem... We still battle it... but to put our head in a bag, and pretend it is not still something that we need to avoid, or repent of if we don't avoid it... is not the answer.

I apologize. I think I just so happened to have quoted your post. Forgive me.

 

[Frogster]

My post addressed no one personally,... I did not say 'all', nor 'many' but used the word 'some'.... So what makes you feel it pertains to you?

We are to preach and teach against sin, Jesus did, the disciples did, and we are to also... Sin has an easy remedy due to Jesus' atonement... and it is no longer an insurmountable problem... We still battle it... but to put our head in a bag, and pretend it is not still something that we need to avoid, or repent of if we don't avoid it... is not the answer.

I am trying to point out the glories found in the epistle, sadly most use the letter to scare people, or promote sin fighting, a lesson in futility, when compared to walking in what the book actually teaches, the amazing freedom of being washed all of the time. If one misses the eternal, then he will have natural inclinations, to go to the temporal.

So some can spend their whole loves fighting sin, others will be better suited seeing it was taken away.

Sorry, but I do not need man made temples, that could not take away sin, that which just bound up the conscience in sin.

no thanks, not for this ole froggy.

 

[Frogster]

It also says that the heart is deceitful above all things. If we have new hearts, THEN it can bear true witness. But our old hearts...our flesh? Do not listen to a thing it whispers. It wants to live.

If we say we are saved, and yet God is not producing fruits of righteousness in us, what does that tell us? That is why we "shall know them by their fruits".

If we see people in church that are in desperate need, and we say "God bless you, be warmed and filled" and even pray with them, and have the ability to help them, what does the word tell us. "How does the love of God dwell there" if we close up our hearts and walk away? The answer is, and many will not like it, is..... IT DOESN'T.

I say this not to place guilt on people but for all to really examine themselves as the word directs us whether we really are in the faith or are we relying on a long past one time prayer? The goal of a post like this is simple...to awaken us from our sleep and to see that what God promises us is far more than we are presently experiencing.

No more consciousness of sins? That is our birthright. Do we enjoy such a place of heart rest or do we have to assure ourselves when others quote it that we are no longer sinners.

No more condemnation to them that believe? Praise God, yes! But memorizing the verse does NOTHING to get the condemnation out of our own hearts.

Why is there so few of our prayers answered? Because if our hearts condemn us, God is greater than our hearts and knows all things. How can we exercise faith with guilt in our hearts? Do we not see that our fleshly hearts go part and parcel with guilt and condemnation? There is a way to get free, but we cannot see it until we cry out for deliverance from fleshly hearts and sins that we feel hardly ang guilt for any longer.

It is time we got serious about ourt eternities. The last day is NOT that time.

I love you all.

Gideon

Lime above, actually the deceit of Hebrews, as to not see the eternal cleansing, the attack on the atonement.


3:13 But exhort one another every day, as long as it is called “today,” that none of you may be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin.

Don't forget bro, that was the strange teaching, that is in 13:9.

So if people want to quote the rebukes, they ought to understand, that the rebukes were for leaving the eternal order, full sin remission, going back to law life.

What was Heb 2:2 saying, about the once for all, no more sin consciousness?

 

[ToBeBlessed]

Why is there so few of our prayers answered? How can we exercise faith with guilt in our hearts?

i find it so hard to relate to the overuse of the word 'our'. It seems so distant and not personal as the writer makes a generalization. Using the word 'our' distances us personally from something, while 'me' and 'I' takes ownership.

'Why are so few of my prayers answered?' or 'How can I exercise faith with guilt in my heart?'. So much better! IMO

 

[ByTheSpirit]

Lime above, actually the deceit of Hebrews, as to not see the eternal cleansing, the attack on the atonement.


3:13 But exhort one another every day, as long as it is called “today,” that none of you may be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin.

Don't forget bro, that was the strange teaching, that is in 13:9.

So if people want to quote the rebukes, they ought to understand, that the rebukes were for leaving the eternal order, full sin remission, going back to law life.

What was Heb 2:2 saying, about the once for all, no more sin consciousness?

Not to mention John wrote in 1 John 3 that God is greater than our heart and knows all things...

 

[murjahel]

if doctrines of devils includes the result of a conscience 'seared with a hot iron' so the conscience does not feel any guilt or shame for sin... how can the doctrine of having no guilt or shame for one's sins be a good thing???

1 Timothy 4:1-2 (KJV)
1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

 

[Simon_Templar]

Of course your past, present and future sins are forgiven, they have to be, or else Christ would have to suffer often, even now for the new sins, commited even by those of people being born today, who will sin.

But, It says eternal redemption in Hebrews 9:12.

If it were not so, then whenever one sinned, even tomorrow, there would have to be a suffering Christ again, to cover a persons “new sin’. But eternal redemption means the future sins are already forgiven too, unless people think Christ wants to be recrucified?

The repeated sins would need another sacrifice, only if the one time, for all sins sacrifice, was not an eternal sacrifice.

That’s why Hebrews 10:18, says where there has been forgiveness, no more sacrifices are needed, not OT ones, or that of our Lord on the cross. It is done, Jesus has>>

Hebrews 9:12 he entered once for all into the holy places, not by means of the blood of goats and calves but by means of his own blood, thus securing an eternal redemption.

People say the cross went backwards in time in Rom 3:25, to the previously overlooked sins. Ok, why can’t the cross go foward also, to future sins?

Again, if the one time atonement was not eternal, a one time event, to take away all sins from believers, the text shows that He would have to>>>>



Hebrews 9:25 Nor was it to offer himself repeatedly, as the high priest enters the holy places every year with blood not his own, 26 for then he would have had to suffer repeatedly since the foundation of the world. But as it is, he has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

Verse 26 says once for all, put away sin, that would mean even future sins!


It has to be, there is no other conclusion.

If it were not eternal, like in the temple times, annual and daily offerings would have to continue to keep covering new sins, but that is not so with the eternal redemption, Christ secured. No more daily or yearly sacrifices, temple ways, we have eternal redemption forever! Sin forever removed, not covered!

Than you Jesus! The lamb of God who took away the sin!

There is a logical problem with this.

If all sin were simply forgiven, then you would have to be a universalist. I agree that Jesus does not have to suffer multiple times, he died once for all.

So it's clearly not a case that Jesus must go to the cross again, which means that his sacrifice has the capacity to forgive all sin. Yet all sin is not forgiven, if we believe the bible and the orthodox faith. Thus there must be a condition upon which the forgiveness won by Christ passes from potential to actual.

If there is a condition which makes the potential of forgiveness secured by Christ become actual forgiveness of us individually, then there is also the possibility that this condition may have to be repeated.

When I read the bible, I come to the conclusion that the condition of forgiveness is repentance (which is an act of faith). In other words, in order to be forgiven, you have to want to be forgiven, and you have to ask in faith.

 

[like eagleswings]

6 He came to Simon Peter, who said to him, “Lord, do you wash my feet?” 7 Jesus answered him, “What I am doing you do not understand now, but afterward you will understand.” 8 Peter said to him, “You shall never wash my feet.” Jesus answered him, “If I do not wash you, you have no share with me.” 9 Simon Peter said to him, “Lord, not my feet only but also my hands and my head!” 10 Jesus said to him, “The one who has bathed does not need to wash, except for his feet, but is completely clean.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[Frogster]

Not to mention John wrote in 1 John 3 that God is greater than our heart and knows all things...

Good verse, and I like your new avatar.

 

[Frogster]

if doctrines of devils includes the result of a conscience 'seared with a hot iron' so the conscience does not feel any guilt or shame for sin... how can the doctrine of having no guilt or shame for one's sins be a good thing???

1 Timothy 4:1-2 (KJV)
1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

Ummm..you might do well to realize that the doctrine of demons, were about the law people, promoting legalism in your verse.

Also they were "bewitched" in Gal 3, that was a cultic word, implying that the devil was behind the legalism.

In 2 Cor 11, the devil was also behind the legalistic party invading Corinth, with law.


So please, if you wish to bring the devil into the conversation, please put him on the side of the legalistic branch of government, not the grace side.

Thanks, frog.

 

[Frogster]

There is a logical problem with this.

If all sin were simply forgiven, then you would have to be a universalist. I agree that Jesus does not have to suffer multiple times, he died once for all.

So it's clearly not a case that Jesus must go to the cross again, which means that his sacrifice has the capacity to forgive all sin. Yet all sin is not forgiven, if we believe the bible and the orthodox faith. Thus there must be a condition upon which the forgiveness won by Christ passes from potential to actual.

If there is a condition which makes the potential of forgiveness secured by Christ become actual forgiveness of us individually, then there is also the possibility that this condition may have to be repeated.

When I read the bible, I come to the conclusion that the condition of forgiveness is repentance (which is an act of faith). In other words, in order to be forgiven, you have to want to be forgiven, and you have to ask in faith.

Of course not, the new cov is for those who accepted Christ, universalism is not what I am talking about, one must be sprinkled, as per the text.

 

[Alithis]

Of course your past, present and future sins are forgiven, they have to be, or else Christ would have to suffer often, even now for the new sins, commited even by those of people being born today, who will sin.

But, It says eternal redemption in Hebrews 9:12.

If it were not so, then whenever one sinned, even tomorrow, there would have to be a suffering Christ again, to cover a persons “new sin’. But eternal redemption means the future sins are already forgiven too, unless people think Christ wants to be recrucified?

The repeated sins would need another sacrifice, only if the one time, for all sins sacrifice, was not an eternal sacrifice.

That’s why Hebrews 10:18, says where there has been forgiveness, no more sacrifices are needed, not OT ones, or that of our Lord on the cross. It is done, Jesus has>>

Hebrews 9:12 he entered once for all into the holy places, not by means of the blood of goats and calves but by means of his own blood, thus securing an eternal redemption.

People say the cross went backwards in time in Rom 3:25, to the previously overlooked sins. Ok, why can’t the cross go foward also, to future sins?

Again, if the one time atonement was not eternal, a one time event, to take away all sins from believers, the text shows that He would have to>>>>



Hebrews 9:25 Nor was it to offer himself repeatedly, as the high priest enters the holy places every year with blood not his own, 26 for then he would have had to suffer repeatedly since the foundation of the world. But as it is, he has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

Verse 26 says once for all, put away sin, that would mean even future sins!


It has to be, there is no other conclusion.

If it were not eternal, like in the temple times, annual and daily offerings would have to continue to keep covering new sins, but that is not so with the eternal redemption, Christ secured. No more daily or yearly sacrifices, temple ways, we have eternal redemption forever! Sin forever removed, not covered!

Than you Jesus! The lamb of God who took away the sin!

sure.as long as you obey the gospel and repent..IF we CONFESS our sin he is faithful and just to forgive us...not if we ignore it and willfully continue doing it,that is not repentance.

Hi,
Colossians 2:13; And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses.

Grace to you.

having forgiven... not forgiving .having forgiven ,is a past tense...
Sin,an error, a trip up -once we become aware
(if not already aware)of it through the Holy Spirit speaking to our heart(conviction)..we must Confess ,humble ourselves and ask forgiveness with truthful resolve to not disobey again(repent)..THEN..he is faithful and just to forgive us....
it is not automatic,it is not assumed.

 

[Frogster]

Just think eternal....eternal...

Temporal is daily, eternal is forever, just think eternal...eternal..

 

[LilLamb219]

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This thread has been moved to the debate sub-forum because of the debating going on.

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