OCD/Scrup/unbelief thoughts

[kaykay9.0]

Bluesy, the problem is that they use some logic in them, because they will go back to the debates I had and totally take the other side. I cant even watch most sci fi shows or star trek because they seem to atheistic to me, and yesterday I was seriously thinking of committing suicide as the thoughts hit me all night long.
I turned teh channel to a show yesterday and it started talking about how a scientist showed how he could induce a god experience in a subject witha machine, then i went berserk and my heart started racing.

Praying for you Christian Catholic. I hate to even feed your OCD area with reassurance, but the bedrock thing that helped me about the existence of God thing is this~hope I can explain it well enough to you.
At the end of the day, atheist or believer or anywhere in between, they're going to have to admit that if reality exists (and we believe it does!) then somewhere sometime something existed or occurred that defies our ability to reason it out. In other words, something "uncaused" existed somewhere sometime in order for anything to exist now. I have argued also with atheist on forums before and found that they most of them I chatted with either weren't sure what they believed regarding this or they believed that the universe was eternal. For me, it seems a lot more logical to believe in an eternal God who has miraculously revealed himself in
many ways than to believe that the universal or an atom or a particle or what have you is eternal and all our personhood and order just randomly evolved out of that. Again, either way, something/someone existed that we can't rationally explain. We can't get our head around that, but it's either God or something else which is even harder IMHO to wrap our heads around.

I don't know if I explained with enough clarity to help, but when I considered this and I was struggling, this was the kind of argument that helped me a lot. So...I'm posting in hopes that it helps in a small way with what you're struggling with right now. Of course, again the OCD is your root problem not this particular thing. What helped probably the most in this arena, was when I was able to just kinda say, "Lord, I believe, please help my unbelief." And say to myself, I do believe despite any doubts that I might be assailed with and I have set my course to be a believer I'm walking this thing out in faith and I'm not turning back. It is faith, after all, not knowledge if that makes sense. I know it doesn't seem that way currently, but trust me on this one... Praying for you and yes, hang in on the meds. They do take time, usually several weeks or more to help. Feel free to pm if you like.

 

[Christian-Catholic]

KayKay, believe me I know the first cause argument and it is super duper solid. I have a friend on the catholic forums who just blows atheists away with it. He used to be an atheist and he came to christianity out of pure logic at first. Its just my thoughts refuse to listen to reason, that is probably why its most likely an extreme form of ocd, but when its happening to us you fully know that to us it seems that it is real and that the thoughts are actually ours.

I just left a message for my therapist and told her that when I started taking the full dose of sertraline instead of the half dose that the thoughts became worse. Im gonna do a half dose today.

Praying for you Christian Catholic. I hate to even feed your OCD area with reassurance, but the bedrock thing that helped me about the existence of God thing is this~hope I can explain it well enough to you.
At the end of the day, atheist or believer or anywhere in between, they're going to have to admit that if reality exists (and we believe it does!) then somewhere sometime something existed or occurred that defies our ability to reason it out. In other words, something "uncaused" existed somewhere sometime in order for anything to exist now. I have argued also with atheist on forums before and found that they most of them I chatted with either weren't sure what they believed regarding this or they believed that the universe was eternal. For me, it seems a lot more logical to believe in an eternal God who has miraculously revealed himself in
many ways than to believe that the universal or an atom or a particle or what have you is eternal and all our personhood and order just randomly evolved out of that. Again, either way, something/someone existed that we can't rationally explain. We can't get our head around that, but it's either God or something else which is even harder IMHO to wrap our heads around.

I don't know if I explained with enough clarity to help, but when I considered this and I was struggling, this was the kind of argument that helped me a lot. So...I'm posting in hopes that it helps in a small way with what you're struggling with right now. Of course, again the OCD is your root problem not this particular thing. What helped probably the most in this arena, was when I was able to just kinda say, "Lord, I believe, please help my unbelief." And say to myself, I do believe despite any doubts that I might be assailed with and I have set my course to be a believer I'm walking this thing out in faith and I'm not turning back. It is faith, after all, not knowledge if that makes sense. I know it doesn't seem that way currently, but trust me on this one... Praying for you and yes, hang in on the meds. They do take time, usually several weeks or more to help. Feel free to pm if you like.

 

[kaykay9.0]

KayKay, believe me I know the first cause argument and it is super duper solid. I have a friend on the catholic forums who just blows atheists away with it. He used to be an atheist and he came to christianity out of pure logic at first. Its just my thoughts refuse to listen to reason, that is probably why its most likely an extreme form of ocd, but when its happening to us you fully know that to us it seems that it is real and that the thoughts are actually ours.

I just left a message for my therapist and told her that when I started taking the full dose of sertraline instead of the half dose that the thoughts became worse. Im gonna do a half dose today.

Yes, when your mind won't even accept logic, that's just even further evidence that you're battling OCD. That's why reassurance doesn't usually have a long lasting effect regrettably. You're not alone in this. As I said, this argument use to help me on this particular issue, because I truly believe it's extremely compelling, but even believing that, I would have to go back over it again and again to remind myself of the strength of the argument. (I think someone who had just a "normal" level of inquiry or question would be able to be "quieted" in their spirit if they believed the logic behind something and put the matter to rest, but not if you battle OCD!) But I posted in the hope it might help you anchor back to reality as it used to me...at least for awhile...if you know what I mean. And I can tell you that if you battle OCD, and I def think you are, if you could totally settle this battle, the OCD would likely morph pretty quickly to something elese.:o Aaaarrrggghh! So that's why I'm glad you're trying to "treat the root and not the fruit." Of course, I will say this, some forms of OCD struggles are more peace-robbing than others, but it always attacks something that's important to us. But hang in, it does take some time when we want it over YESTERDAY!!!! That's one reason why just leaving the thoughts alone is helpful.

Sometimes with OCD we have ruminated and obsessed and reasoned in our minds so much that we no longer have proper perspective. We can no longer see the forest for the trees so to speak. I speak from experience here obviously. It's hard to let go of, (the arguing with the thoughts and the reasoning etc) but if you can even do it for a little while, it seems to help our mind regain some logic and perspective. Try to set a time limit in which you tell yourself you will not consider this issue at all and try to make it a little longer and a little longer each time. Meanwhile your mind can get a rest and be able to see things more clearly if that makes any sense. (I would say just drop it forever. This would be ideal, but in an OCD tailspin, you typically can't or it's very difficult IMO.)

 

[Christian-Catholic]

Thank you KayKay, I will keep trying to do this until the meds start working and im ready for therapy. You , Mitzi, shelovesChrist and everyone else here have been like a Godsend for me. I dont know where I would have been without u all ::

 

[kaykay9.0]

Thank you KayKay, I will keep trying to do this until the meds start working and im ready for therapy. You , Mitzi, shelovesChrist and everyone else here have been like a Godsend for me. I dont know where I would have been without u all ::

Well, you are welcome. One of the main things this forum showed me was that this was NOT just "my issues" alone. I was battling OCD. My therapist had said that for awhile but I guess I was still in some level of denial about it, but when I came here and saw what others were battling, it was like looking in a mirror! (Like she used to say, "De Nile is not just a river in Eygpt!") You knows it's strange though. When you're in the midst of an OCD battle big time, the most illogical thoughts seem to possess some logic. This is typical OCD. It's like in that moment of time we've living in a distorted reality.

 

[Christian-Catholic]

KayKay you aint kidding about the ocd battle, and it will not accept no for an answer. I like the answer about de nile hehe

 

[shelovesChrist]

CC,

hang in there. and dont worry, people dont understand the situation like God does. even family. when and if they lose patience with you, just always remember that God is working with you through this. You will come out so victorious and look back and know that God is able. He keeps us through the storm. When they first hit its a rough battle and its so hard, but know that the Lord is holding you in His hand. Stay strong, know that you are not alone, others have held on to their faith in this and are doing well despite it all and the Lord can do the same for you. Even if your faith is weak, dont be too down on yourself, it's okay because He understands all of our confusion. Just ask Him to strengthen you and give you the faith you need to overcome. Im praying for you all daily. God bless and remember He has never lost a case and never will so know that the confusion and pain will pass and He is able to keep you in this.

 

[Christian-Catholic]

ShelovesChrist, Unfortunately my mom does understand and just doesnt care. Ty so much for the encouraging words. I cant wait for that day to come. I know one thing for sure, if I make it through this storm I will love every second of my life. Praying is the toughest because that is when I get the biggest stress pains. I prayed today that the Lord helps my best friend recover from being in critical condition. Im asking God each day to strengthen me and give me back the free will to believe what I want to believe without pains shooting through me. Your right also that God is more powerful than all of our ocd's combined.
Thank you again

 

[Christian-Catholic]

Its been almost 2 days since I left a message on my therapists answering machine and she hasnt answered me back. I had a bad feeling about that one because she also knew the first therapist i went to lol. I had a very good conversation with a good friend of mine who has been a born again christian for sometime now. He told me that the Lord is in my heart. Once I accepted him, no intrusive thoughts could ever take him away from me. He also had ocd big time for a long period of time (though not religious based) so he understands it well. He also gave me the contact info of his old therapist who he said was a godsend in his life. I will contact her tomorrow.
The talk with my friend helped a bit. Even though im still having the thoughts the talk with him gave me a little bit of hope.

 

[gracealone]

Hi Christian,
I know you say your Mom understands but her understanding of this disorder is obviously inadequate - otherwise she would have the utmost empathy and compassion for the debility and suffering that this inordinate level of anxiety causes. She is likely in the river of "de - nile" more so than you are. It's very scary to see someone you love behave in such a seemingly bizarre way and the idea that you can say something to snap them out of it is hard to resist. Also people without OCD can't fathom or understand why we have no control over the anxiety because their brain's aren't misfiring like ours are.
I remember attending a class on depression at my church. We were watching these video's of a Pastor who was teaching about "overcoming depression". At one point he made this statement that the fact that he hadn't struggled with depression made him even more qualified to teach other's how to live a life without it. (At this point I wanted to stand up and offer a sarcastic round of applause.) That was the last class for me. He was basically patting himself on the back for not having a chemical imbalance in his brain and making the rest of us feel that it was our fault that we did. He also stated that if the depression was due to a chemical imbalance that there was "less hope" for you. That was absolute unbiblical rubbish for this very reason.. "My grace is sufficient for you. For my strength is being perfected IN your weakness.... therefore I will glory IN my affliction that the power of Christ may rest more fully upon me, for when I am weak - I am strong."
Nothing else this Pastor had to say mattered to me after that. I am quite certain that he was sincere in his desire to "help" people with depression but his understanding of the cause as well as the depth of suffering clinical depression carries with it was obviously very flawed.
I can't imagine he'd tell someone with cancer that he could teach them how not to have cancer because he didn't happen to have it. People would think he was nuts if he did that.
I will be praying for your Mom to gain a greater level of understanding about your OCD. I would absolutely love to talk to her about my own struggles with this disorder if I thought it would make a difference. Has she visited the Dr. with you? Sometimes just hearing a professional clarify what a person experiences with OCD can make a huge difference.
You keep on keeping on. Hang tough buddy. This too shall pass and when it does God will have taught you invaluable lessons from it.
Mitzi

ShelovesChrist, Unfortunately my mom does understand and just doesnt care. Ty so much for the encouraging words. I cant wait for that day to come. I know one thing for sure, if I make it through this storm I will love every second of my life. Praying is the toughest because that is when I get the biggest stress pains. I prayed today that the Lord helps my best friend recover from being in critical condition. Im asking God each day to strengthen me and give me back the free will to believe what I want to believe without pains shooting through me. Your right also that God is more powerful than all of our ocd's combined.
Thank you again

 

[bluesyboy1]

I think, no, I KNOW gracealone (sola gratia, ) is right on this one. People who are not versed regarding mental health in an appropriate manner associate, say, depression with one's feeling down and just overburdened with life's problems. This is CRAP, sorry for the word. Everyone gets discouraged about life and other matters thereto related. But not everyone has racing thoughts they can't fight and argue against in their brain. Even more so with OCD, when as a result of your tormenting ill thoughts you get panic attacks and even symptoms of depression because when you're in the midst of it, everything seems to hopeless.
What would such pastor/parent/friend/whoever say to you if you had, God-forbid, cancer? It's the same thing. What you, Christian catholic, have to do now, is to do everything you need to do to get through your day, try to calm yourself down and avoid triggers of OCD till you get stronger and more immune towards 'em. Do what your doctor tells you to. More than that, trust Lord Jesus Christ, no matter what the sickness tells your brain. Jesus, when he was hanging on the cross, bore all the weight on his shoulders. He knows how you're feeling and his love toward you is just so abundant. His love is a fact, not a feeling, nor a thought.

 

[Christian-Catholic]

Mitzi, Believe me if I thought it would help I would have her talk to you right now. My brother has bouts of ocd here and there, and he recently is going through it because he saw my panic attacks, but its more of a mimic ocd caused by his fear. I would always sit and talk to him for a few weeks and he would get better as long as he got outside of the house. During his bouts of ocd my mom would be much more tolerant of him then she would be of me. Every family needs a punching bag I guess. If you talked to my mom about this, she would be very nice and agree with everything u said and then after she hanged up the phone I would get a yelling that would last for days.

 

[Christian-Catholic]

Bluesyboy, your right, right now its just about getting through each day.
Mitzi and everyone else remembered when I posted about one of my friends who took me to a christian counselor who told me that these thoughts are satans doing and that if I cant just shrug them off then its my fault. I havent heard from the friend who took me to this counselor now for almost 2 months and I dont think I will be hearing back from him for a long time if ever. This as Mitzi, and you clearly stated is pure ignorance. The fact that he had ocd himself should have made him more understanding about my situation but because of her influence on him , plus his own ignorance he couldnt believe that ocd could ever attack this area of our life and that Jesus would never allow it.

I think, no, I KNOW gracealone (sola gratia, ) is right on this one. People who are not versed regarding mental health in an appropriate manner associate, say, depression with one's feeling down and just overburdened with life's problems. This is CRAP, sorry for the word. Everyone gets discouraged about life and other matters thereto related. But not everyone has racing thoughts they can't fight and argue against in their brain. Even more so with OCD, when as a result of your tormenting ill thoughts you get panic attacks and even symptoms of depression because when you're in the midst of it, everything seems to hopeless.
What would such pastor/parent/friend/whoever say to you if you had, God-forbid, cancer? It's the same thing. What you, Christian catholic, have to do now, is to do everything you need to do to get through your day, try to calm yourself down and avoid triggers of OCD till you get stronger and more immune towards 'em. Do what your doctor tells you to. More than that, trust Lord Jesus Christ, no matter what the sickness tells your brain. Jesus, when he was hanging on the cross, bore all the weight on his shoulders. He knows how you're feeling and his love toward you is just so abundant. His love is a fact, not a feeling, nor a thought.

 

[bluesyboy1]

some Christian counsellors are OK. but even secular counsellors, some of them will try to tell you that you can fight those thoughts using your cognitive techniques. I don't buy this. CBT is effective, but it didn't work for me until I started taking proper medication and then things started to look up rapidly. Praise God. Try to stay calm, do things you love. For instance, during my worst days of sickness, I came back to my passion for music, which I had been neglecting because of my academic pursuits. I would listen to music I loved, I would play the guitar as much as possible, I would go out with dogs, etc. Give yourself a break. Don't push yourself into instant victory, as these counsellors would urge us. I know it might sound like sci-fi, but try to do things that will make you at least a bit enjoy your life amid this sickness.
P.S. when she said that the thoughts were satan's, she was right. everything bad that is on the planet is because of satan and the curse that adam's sin brought on this world. but just because satan is attacking us, it doesn't mean that God will let him take our salvation! Remember Job. Satan did lots of crap to him, but he was soooooooooooooooooooo secure in God's hands through all the crap he had to go through! You're doing great, no matter how you're feeling at the moment. I can just join the dots as I read through all your comments and through your tears and pain I see a man of God who is persevering. Hallelujah!

 

[kaykay9.0]

Well, it's just difficult to understand something unless you've been there. Some counselors understand OCD a lot better than others. It does seem like we ought to be able to "just brush these thoughts off and go on" to someone who doesn't struggle with OCD. But it's the OCD battle that causes us to have difficulty here. If we could just "brush them off" we wouldn't have OCD.

I think about the fact that over the course of our marriage, my husband has struggled to some degree periodically with depression and there were times, when I felt the same. Just "get over it!" While my struggle is with OCD and sometimes that makes me feel depressed, "depression" per se is just NOT my issue. Therefore, I couldn't as easily understand HIS struggle since I hadn't really experienced it. At some level we realize it just doesn't work that way but on another level it's frustrating.

 

[shelovesChrist]

CC,

Im glad that your friend's talk helped encouraged you and you will get over this, because as the Lord says, in the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcame the world (John 16:33) We should look at our bad situations in life, but focus on the one who is able to change them as I heard a first lady once say. My good friend who is also a Christian encouraged me once because she told me that even she has intrusive thoughts against God and that really let me know that we can get through this. Saints all over the world are dealing with trials and tribulations but Jesus can heal and deliver and if He doesnt move the mountain, He will give us the strength to climb over it. Mitzi I love the scripture that you posted regarding Saul and his thorn in the flesh and yes blu, the Lord does understand our situation and love us. I'm just glad that He's kept me in the midst of this, my faith has grown, my love for Him has grown, and we've grown closer and I know CC you're probably thinking how can any good come from this, but keep holding on to your faith and you will see overtime. Praying for you all always.

 

[Christian-Catholic]

Thanks Bluesboy for the encouraging post. Its just hard sometimes when U feel a few minutes of clearity and then its gone. Sometimes the thoughts will try to convince me that im just just fighting my true feelings, other times they will keep pounding me with unbelief thoughts and other times its just pure heart pounding anxiety. Couple this with the fact that my Mom is now complaining about and screaming at me again.
Her only concern is how much money we are pulling in , what relative is talking behind her back and the family name. This is what I have to wake up to in the morning and sleep to at night. Im trying to get a hold of the new therapist, but its so hard to get anyone to answer back on the phone.


Kaykay your so right about the ocd thoughts because when we are having them, its very hard to know if they are really ocd or your thoughts and that is the excruciating part. We wonder when this will end and the circle will come to a close with these thoughts.

ShelovesChrist, yea at times I do wonder what good can come out of this but I guess its because I am caught in the middle of the storm. I wanna get better even more because I wanna leave the house so bad so I can have a normal life, but with me its a race against time to try to heal before my mom tries to tear me down, but because the Lord is the real truth and truely loves us we must persevere, even when most of the day we are getting bombarded with thoughts and feelings that seem so real to us. I am glad that your friend helped you and opened up to you about her intrusive thoughts. It is always an encouragement when we know that we arent the only ones in the world with this disorder and it also reassures us that it truely is a disorder and not our true feelings.

 

[kaykay9.0]

Thanks Bluesboy for the encouraging post. Its just hard sometimes when U feel a few minutes of clearity and then its gone. Sometimes the thoughts will try to convince me that im just just fighting my true feelings, other times they will keep pounding me with unbelief thoughts and other times its just pure heart pounding anxiety. Couple this with the fact that my Mom is now complaining about and screaming at me again.
Her only concern is how much money we are pulling in , what relative is talking behind her back and the family name. This is what I have to wake up to in the morning and sleep to at night. Im trying to get a hold of the new therapist, but its so hard to get anyone to answer back on the phone.


Kaykay your so right about the ocd thoughts because when we are having them, its very hard to know if they are really ocd or your thoughts and that is the excruciating part. We wonder when this will end and the circle will come to a close with these thoughts.

ShelovesChrist, yea at times I do wonder what good can come out of this but I guess its because I am caught in the middle of the storm. I wanna get better even more because I wanna leave the house so bad so I can have a normal life, but with me its a race against time to try to heal before my mom tries to tear me down, but because the Lord is the real truth and truely loves us we must persevere, even when most of the day we are getting bombarded with thoughts and feelings that seem so real to us. I am glad that your friend helped you and opened up to you about her intrusive thoughts. It is always an encouragement when we know that we arent the only ones in the world with this disorder and it also reassures us that it truely is a disorder and not our true feelings.

Continuing to pray for you. Hang in there.

 

[bluesyboy1]

hi Christian catholic,
I´m really sorry about your situation at home, I will pray your mom´s heart changes in this regard. How old are you? Are you in school, or working anywhere? I would suggest you spend time with friends you love and trust - those that understand your underlying issues and concerns. I was having a bad weekend, actually, so I can relate to your anxious feelings. On friday it was my uncle´s 50th birthay party and we stayed really long. I only slept like two hours, than got sick to my stomach, because we ate so much that nite and I dont usually eat after 3 p.m. at all. The whole day after that was bad due to the stomache and as I was weaker physically the thoughts were abnormal too. I felt very anxious waking up today and even tonite after my afternoon nap. But God is with me and I got better again.
is your therapist a psychiatrist? do you have health insurance or you´re paying that person? is your medication expensive? do you have a drug plan? if you´re living in the US, these things can be a bit challenging - but hey, God provides for all your needs. Read Paul´s letter to Philippians, chapter 4.
God is with you.
bluesyboy

 

[DhL015]

I've actually had a Christian OCD counselor tell me my case was to servere for him and refer me to an outpatient clinic / treatment center almost an hour from were a live and to top it off i dont have insurance for thaat type of thing , but God bless him i holde no ill will toward him at all ~ i've found a different person im seeing now and she is helpful , mostly its been God helping me theough it cause its still a daily stuggle but one im postitive i can overcome