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OC Jerusalem and Lake of Fire

OC Jerusalem, Lake of Fire the Same?

  • Yes it is possible they are the same

  • No, it is not possible they are the same

  • That is an absurb and ridiculous view!

  • I have never thought of it that way

  • I don't know

  • None of the above


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LittleLambofJesus

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cont...

CONCLUSION
The harlot of Babylon is a symbolic name for the future corrupt apostate city of Jerusalem ruled by the Antichrist, upon whom God's judgment of fire will fall.

Jerusalem is the only one according to Jesus that is responsible for all of the deaths of all the prophets and all of the apostles and all of the saints. Jesus said God's vengeance would come against that people, in that generation. They would be judged for spilling all the righteous blood shed on earth.
Ahhh.....then we just disagree on which Jerusalem is showing in Revelation [I am a Preterist btw :blush:].

I view it as the one Jesus and the Apostles spoke in and about :blush: :wave:

Luke 19:43 That shall be arriving days upon Thee and Thy enemies shall be casting up a siege-work to Thee and shall be encompassing Thee and pressing Thee every which place.

Reve 18:8 by this, in one day shall be arriving the blows of Her, death and sorrow and famine; and in fire She shall be being burned,
that strong Lord, the God, the one judging Her
[Matt 24:7]

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

..............The day on which Titus encompassed Jerusalem, was the feast of the Passover.............

.......The Temple now presented little more than a heap of ruins............
 
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Ahhh.....then we just disagree on which Jerusalem is showing in Revelation [I am a Preterist btw :blush:].

I view it as the one Jesus and the Apostles spoke in and about :blush: :wave:

Luke 19:43 That shall be arriving days upon Thee and Thy enemies shall be casting up a siege-work to Thee and shall be encompassing Thee and pressing Thee every which place.

Reve 18:8 by this, in one day shall be arriving the blows of Her, death and sorrow and famine; and in fire She shall be being burned,
that strong Lord, the God, the one judging Her
[Matt 24:7]

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

..............The day on which Titus encompassed Jerusalem, was the feast of the Passover.............

.......The Temple now presented little more than a heap of ruins............

okay.
i'm familiar with the preterist position. and undoubedtly it DID happen.
(i'm leaning very heavily towards amil), but the discourse here in Mark 13, for example, and all the prefiguring in general: put together with what we SEE happening today, isn't it possible this is to happen one more time?


Mark 13
1 And as he went out of the temple, one of his disciples saith unto him, Master, see what manner of stones and what buildings are here! 2 And Jesus answering said unto him, Seest thou these great buildings? there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.


3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives over against the temple, Peter and James and John and Andrew asked him privately, 4 Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign when all these things shall be fulfilled? 5 And Jesus answering them began to say, Take heed lest any man deceive you: 6 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. 7 And when ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars, be ye not troubled: for such things must needs be; but the end shall not be yet. 8 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be earthquakes in divers places, and there shall be famines and troubles: these are the beginnings of sorrows.

9 But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them. 10 And the gospel must first be published among all nations. 11 But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost. 12 Now the brother shall betray the brother to death, and the father the son; and children shall rise up against their parents, and shall cause them to be put to death. 13 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

14 But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains: 15 And let him that is on the housetop not go down into the house, neither enter therein, to take any thing out of his house: 16 And let him that is in the field not turn back again for to take up his garment. 17 But woe to them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! 18 And pray ye that your flight be not in the winter. 19 For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be. 20 And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days. 21 And then if any man shall say to you, Lo, here is Christ; or, lo, he is there; believe him not: 22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect. 23 But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things.

24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, 25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken. 26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. 27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

28 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When her branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is near: 29 So ye in like manner, when ye shall see these things come to pass, know that it is nigh, even at the doors. 30 Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done. 31 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away. 32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

33 Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is. 34 For the Son of man is as a man taking a far journey, who left his house, and gave authority to his servants, and to every man his work, and commanded the porter to watch. 35 Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning: 36 Lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping. 37And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch.

councils

συνεδρια noun - accusative plural neuter
sunedrion soon-ed'-ree-on: a joint session, i.e. (specially), the Jewish Sanhedrin; by analogy, a subordinate tribunal -- council.



~ since the Sanhedrin reappeared in 2004, and we have these Noahide councils, is it possible we are going to see a final fulfillment?

~ thanks for your time Lamb

:groupray:
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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okay.
i'm familiar with the preterist position. and undoubedtly it DID happen.
(i'm leaning very heavily towards amil), but the discourse here in Mark 13, for example, and all the prefiguring in general: put together with what we SEE happening today, isn't it possible this is to happen one more time?

~ thanks for your time Lamb

:groupray:
Thank you for your post.
Doesn't seem to be much difference between the Preterist and Amill doctrines, as it appears both of those view at least most of Revelation as fulfilled if I am not mistaken :wave: :groupray:
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Originally Posted by consigliere31 the 'lake of fire' is a figurative expression used symbolically to describe the type and nature of a judgment that is Divinely inspired by God.

These expressions lake of fire/unquechable fire/are common expressions used throughout biblical prophecy, in both the OT and the NT.

They serve to express a judgment from God that is against a nation of people.
This is wonderful knowledge....! Many thanks for these great bible passage references !!!
They are indeed great bible passages and thank you for posting :wave:
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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cont...

THE HARLOT
Just as "Babylon" is referred to as a harlot, a harlot, Jerusalem is also called a harlot.
CONCLUSION

The harlot of Babylon is a symbolic name for the future corrupt apostate city of Jerusalem ruled by the Antichrist, upon whom God's judgment of fire will fall.
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Jerusalem is the only one according to Jesus that is responsible for all of the deaths of all the prophets and all of the apostles and all of the saints. Jesus said God's vengeance would come against that people, in that generation. They would be judged for spilling all the righteous blood shed on earth. [/FONT]
I am in agreement with that [tho I have been labeled "anti-Jewish" for it] :wave:
 
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Gregory Thompson

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would then .. Babylon be Jerusalem in this case? so a triple parallel ..

Jerusalem is Babylon is the lake of fire is the weeping and gnashing of teeth .. okay four .

So the teaching of peace is confusion in the lake of purification weeping because their children are no more .. hmm ..

maybe . definitely good for the brain to munch on .
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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would then .. Babylon be Jerusalem in this case? so a triple parallel ..

Jerusalem is Babylon is the lake of fire is the weeping and gnashing of teeth .. okay four .

So the teaching of peace is confusion in the lake of purification weeping because their children are no more .. hmm ..

maybe . definitely good for the brain to munch on .
Just don't strain yer brain too much on bro ;)
 
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Gregory Thompson

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Just don't strain yer brain too much on bro ;)

I think it starts to strain me when i have eight parallels at a time .. but i have been taking it easy lately .. so who knows ..
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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I think it starts to strain me when i have eight parallels at a time .. but i have been taking it easy lately .. so who knows ..
Just vote YES and get it over with ;)
 
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Gregory Thompson

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Just vote YES and get it over with ;)

I'm still torn between yes and other .. where other is .. babylon is cast into the lake of fire so it is inconclusive since on that day God may very well "be all and in all" thus inconclusive .
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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I'm still torn between yes and other .. where other is .. babylon is cast into the lake of fire so it is inconclusive since on that day God may very well "be all and in all" thus inconclusive .
Thank you for your input MC
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Ok, where is my ignore button... To avoid certain distractions..:p
:D
You mean one to ignore this thread or other members? :p


.....
 
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SummaScriptura

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Not even close.

Isaiah, writing before the time in which Jerusalem was destroyed, sees Jerusalem rising from the dirt, shaking off the dust and being restored and decked in glorious robes.

Read the entirety of Isaiah 52. Isaiah jumps from his own time, past the desolation of Jerusalem toward the city's restoration in the eschaton. (It is obviously the eschaton as "the unclean will no longer come into you") Its clear from the passage that it is Jerusalem itself that is being restored. An analogy can be drawn here to the Biblical doctrine of the resurrection of the dead; in the resurrection we receive new bodies which in some way are from our old ones. Sown in ignominy, raised in glory. So too Jerusalem. God plans for her are for good and not for destruction.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Not even close.

Isaiah, writing before the time in which Jerusalem was destroyed, sees Jerusalem rising from the dirt, shaking off the dust and being restored and decked in glorious robes.

Read the entirety of Isaiah 52. Isaiah jumps from his own time, past the desolation of Jerusalem toward the city's restoration in the eschaton. (It is obviously the eschaton as "the unclean will no longer come into you") Its clear from the passage that it is Jerusalem itself that is being restored. An analogy can be drawn here to the Biblical doctrine of the resurrection of the dead; in the resurrection we receive new bodies which in some way are from our old ones. Sown in ignominy, raised in glory. So too Jerusalem. God plans for her are for good and not for destruction.
What about the the destruction of the City and Herod's Temple in ad70 ;)

Luke 19:43 `Because days shall come upon thee, and thine enemies shall cast around thee a rampart, and compass thee round, and press thee on every side,
44 and lay thee low, and thy children within thee, and they shall not leave in thee a stone upon a stone, because thou didst not know the time of thy inspection.'

Young) Revelation 18:2 and he did cry in might--a great voice, saying, `Fall, fall did Babylon the great,
and she became a habitation of demons, and a hold of every unclean spirit, and a hold of every unclean and hateful bird,

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

The day on which Titus encompassed Jerusalem, was the feast of the Passover ; and it is deserving of the very particular attention of the reader, that this was the anniversary of that memorable period in which the Jews crucified their Messiah ! At this season multitudes came up from all the surrounding country, and from distant parts, to keep the festival. How suitable and how kind, then, was the prophetic admonition of our LORD, and how clearly he into futurity when he said "Let not them that are in the countries enter into Jerusalem." Luke xxi. 21.

The Temple now presented little more than a heap of ruins ; and the Roman army as in triumph on the event, came and reared their ensigns against a fragment of the eastern gate, and, with sacrifices of thanksgiving, proclaimed the imperial majesty of Titus, with every possible demonstration of joy.
 
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SummaScriptura

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What about it?

How does Isaiah's vision of a restored Jerusalem fit into what you are saying?

70AD does not circumvent the promise that Jerusalem will be restored in glory to the end that the unclean will no more come into her. 70AD didn't do that, but I would think that's obvious.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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i can't vote because i still don't understand your question.
so are you saying that you think that the city of Jerusalem in old testament times was the lake of fire?
did the whole city burn down at some point?
According to Josephus's account, yes

Revelation 18:8 "Therefore her plagues will come in one day -- death and mourning and famine.
And she will be utterly burned with fire, for strong [is] the Lord God who judges her.

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

The delirious rage of the soldiery knew no bounds. Eager for plunder and for slaughter, they alike contemned the solicitations and menaces of their General. Even while he was thus intent upon the preservation of the sanctuary, one of the soldiers was actually employed in setting fire to the door- posts, which caused the conflagration to become general. Titus and his officers were now compelled to retire, and none remained to check the fury of the soldiers or the flames. The Romans, exasperated to the highest pitch against the Jews, seized every person whom they could find, and, without the least regard to sex, .age or quality, first plundered and then slew them. The old and the young, the common people and the priests, those who surrendered and those who resisted, were equally involved in this horrible and indiscriminate carnage.

Meanwhile the Temple continued burning, until at length, vast as was its size, the flames completely enveloped the, whole building ; which, from the extent of the conflagration, impressed the distant spectator with an idea that the whole city was now on fire.
The tumult and disorder which ensued upon this event, it is impossible (says Josephus) for language to describe. The Roman legions made the most horrid outcries ; the rebels, finding themselves exposed to the fury of both fire and sword, screamed dreadfully ; while the unhappy people who were pent up between the enemy and the flames, deplored their situation in the most pitiable complaints.
 
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