Obama was the great divider of this country

[szechuan]

I didn't say it proved anything, just that they were little snippets guaranteed to get the nutjobs frothing.

You're point being? Nutjobs will get Raddled with anything, they won't change there minds no matter what. It's not Obama's fault those people exist and it's not Obama's fault they get so triggered over lighthearted Jokes.

 

[wing2000]

Yes Obama being black. Provoked everything. And he's the reason the right is crazy. This is the only thing I seen. The other stuff is your imagination.

THere were other factors that raised unwarranted suspicion as well:

-attended school in a foreign country
-his father was a foreigner and Muslim (double strike)
-able to relate to other cultures
- supported religious freedom - for all religions

In other words, he was one of the "other"

 

[wing2000]

Obama in Africa: I'm Proud To Be First Kenyan-American President

Now, anyone who isn't crazy knows what they're talking about, but it still is just enough to rouse the nutters. There's also another clip in particular I was thinking of where Michelle does this thing like she 'accidentally' admits the birther thing and the audience laughs; it's all done very tongue-in-cheek. However, between the last time I checked in with the Obama conspiracies and now, there's a new one about Michelle really being a man (seriously, what?), and there's no way on this good earth I'm digging through that amount of crazy to find that clip.




Says the person who thinks all conservatives are evil monsters and supports minorities discriminating against whites.

Thank you for proving our point. All the folks who were allegedly provoked need to grow up and take responsibility for their own reactions...

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Really? A survey monkey poll? Those are always TOTES legit. Even when it's a legitimate poll, depending on how you ask the question, you can really, REALLY skew the response.

Poll: Majority of Republicans still doubt Obama's citizenship

Poll: Most Republicans Doubt Obama's Citizenship, As Birtherism Becomes a Screen for Ideology

Obama Citizenship Poll: Things Get Weird In The GOP Base

Obama's Birth Certificate Convinces Some, but Not All, Skeptics


How many different polls would be needed in order to shore up this little detail? My assertion being, that the birtherism wasn't some fringe outlier group among the GOP base, but in actuality, was a substantial portion of the group.

Even after the birth certificate was released, only 49% of republicans were convinced that he was actually born in the US.

 

[Rion]

Poll: Majority of Republicans still doubt Obama's citizenship

Poll: Most Republicans Doubt Obama's Citizenship, As Birtherism Becomes a Screen for Ideology

Obama Citizenship Poll: Things Get Weird In The GOP Base

Obama's Birth Certificate Convinces Some, but Not All, Skeptics


How many different polls would be needed in order to shore up this little detail? My assertion being, that the birtherism wasn't some fringe outlier group among the GOP base, but in actuality, was a substantial portion of the group.

Even after the birth certificate was released, only 49% of republicans were convinced that he was actually born in the US.

1) Literally the same poll you previously posted.Did you even bother to look at what you were grabbing, or did you just hope I wouldn't?
2) Slate with Public Policy Polling, which is rather well known for being on very friendly terms with Democrats.
3) Research2000 and DailyKos... I guess this was before they sued them for fabricating their numbers?
4) The most promising. However, Gallup's always a mixed bag, and since they don't have an actual methodology on the poll, just a vague comment about it being weighted by sex, race, etc. I've no way to say one way or another.

 

[rambot]

1) Literally the same poll you previously posted.Did you even bother to look at what you were grabbing, or did you just hope I wouldn't?
2) Slate with Public Policy Polling, which is rather well known for being on very friendly terms with Democrats.
3) Research2000 and DailyKos... I guess this was before they sued them for fabricating their numbers?
4) The most promising. However, Gallup's always a mixed bag, and since they don't have an actual methodology on the poll, just a vague comment about it being weighted by sex, race, etc. I've no way to say one way or another.

Reach for the stars ad hominem
There was plenty of evidence of skepticism even here on CF.

 

[Rion]

Reach for the stars ad hominem
There was plenty of evidence of skepticism even here on CF.

Oh, so we should totally accept polls that people later disown and sue the makers for? Okay!

 

[ThatRobGuy]

1) Literally the same poll you previously posted.Did you even bother to look at what you were grabbing, or did you just hope I wouldn't?
2) Slate with Public Policy Polling, which is rather well known for being on very friendly terms with Democrats.
3) Research2000 and DailyKos... I guess this was before they sued them for fabricating their numbers?
4) The most promising. However, Gallup's always a mixed bag, and since they don't have an actual methodology on the poll, just a vague comment about it being weighted by sex, race, etc. I've no way to say one way or another.

So basically you're going to reject every poll that concludes that a substantial portion of the GOP voter bases were birthers?

What if it's Fox News reporting it?...does that still make the outcome suspect in your opinion?

http://www.foxnews.com/projects/pdf/FoxNews_Poll_ObamaBirth.pdf

Fox News Poll: 24 Percent Believe Obama Not Born in U.S.



What kind of data or poll would you need to see in order to convince you that birtherism wasn't just some fluke fringe belief among the GOP?

 

[Rion]

So basically you're going to reject every poll that concludes that a substantial portion of the GOP voter bases were birthers?

No, I'm going to reject anything that is A) the same recycled poll you tried to pass off before B) notorious polling/site that skews way to the left C) A poll that the site that paid for it later repudiated and D) a poll whose info I cannot look at myself.

What if it's Fox News reporting it?...does that still make the outcome suspect in your opinion?

I don't care about FOX. If anything, I'd figure they'd swing it the other way.

What kind of data or poll would you need to see in order to convince you that birtherism wasn't just some fluke fringe belief among the GOP?

A poll where I can actually view the methodology and breakdown of it. I know it must chap your rear end something awful that I didn't just see you had posted a bunch of links and backed down immediately, but it isn't my fault if you can't be bothered to look into the crap you're posting before slapping it out there as gospel truth. Now, does this latest poll actually have what I requested?

 

[ThatRobGuy]

A poll where I can actually view the breakdown of it. I know it must chap your rear end something awful that I didn't just see you posted a bunch of links and backed down immediately, but it isn't my fault if you can't be bothered to look into the crap you're posting before slapping it out there as gospel truth. Now, does this latest poll actually have what I requested?

You seem to just be moving the goal posts in terms of what you'll find credible as a poll...

What are you referring to as "a breakdown" you mean by party?...because a couple of polls like linked did have that info, but you found reasons to reject them.

...not sure why I'm bothering...because as the old saying goes "I've seen this movie before so I know the ending", but I'll post another one anyway.

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2010/images/08/04/rel10k1a.pdf


Interviews with 1,018 adult Americans,including 335 Democrats, 398 Independents, and 285 Republicans, conducted by telephone by Opinion Research Corporation on July 16-21, 2010. The margin of sampling error for results based on the total sample is plus or minus 3 percentage points. Results in this document labelled "All Americans" or "Total" are based on this sample of 1,018 adults.

"that one doesn't count because it's from CNN" response in 3...2...1...

 

[Rion]

You seem to just be moving the goal posts in terms of what you'll find credible as a poll...

What are you referring to as "a breakdown" you mean by party?...because a couple of polls like linked did have that info, but you found reasons to reject them.

...not sure why I'm bothering...because as the old saying goes "I've seen this movie before so I know the ending", but I'll post another one anyway.

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2010/images/08/04/rel10k1a.pdf


Interviews with 1,018 adult Americans,including 335 Democrats, 398 Independents, and 285 Republicans, conducted by telephone by Opinion Research Corporation on July 16-21, 2010. The margin of sampling error for results based on the total sample is plus or minus 3 percentage points. Results in this document labelled "All Americans" or "Total" are based on this sample of 1,018 adults.

View attachment 208208

"that one doesn't count because it's from CNN" response in 3...2...1...

I'm not moving goal posts, I just asked if it had a breakdown on the information. The Gallup one, which I said was the most promising, just said that it weighted it by race, sex etc. but didn't explain how the poll weighted it. Another one was literally the same poll you offered before. A third was a poll that the site which paid for the thing later declared it, along with every other poll they did for the site, as worthless/manufactured. The last is straight up garbage because PPP is a joke; they make Rasmussen look top-tier. When I asked if your latest poll had the information I want whenever I look at polling, you can't be bothered to click on your own link and confirm it for me so I don't have to do your work for you again. Instead, you throw yet another poll and mention it is from CNN, probably hoping that I'd just reject it outright on the name alone.

I am sorry, but I've seen this song-and-dance routine before, and I know how it goes. You tried a play to authority/popularity by posting a bunch of polls you probably couldn't be bothered to look at. Unfortunately for you, I look at crap people send me, especially if they're honest with me OR I've caught them being dishonest previously. When I bring up the problems I have with these polls you pulled from the backside of the internet, you start trying to make me sound bad for having reasonable issues with them.

I haven't looked at the CNN poll yet, but I did click on the FOX one, since I figured you were never going to bother and give me an answer, and guess what? It actually has the stuff I was looking for. I'll respond again after I look over both.

 

[Rion]

I had actually finished it a while back, but was busy. Also, the CNN poll was crap. Not because it was CNN, but because it lacked the info I was wanting.

According to the poll, 21% of independents thought he was born in Kenya, and an additional 20% more thought there was reason to wonder. Over 1 in 10 Democrats thought he was Kenyan and in total 1 in 5 thought it wasn't crazy to question if he was. It also seems to show little change between less than 50k and over 50k, and only minor changes when factoring in college education.

Therefore (assuming the questions asked are the same as those printed), either the populace is a lot dumber than I thought or we're dealing with cognitive biases. Most likely it's a combination of both. Therefore, I'll concede a significant portion of the Republicans probably heard someone talk about it and figured "Eh, probably true" and didn't think of it much more outside of possibly derailing his presidency (similar to what I believe with the Russiagaters), but I doubt the majority of those were the dye-in-the-wool Birthers.

 

[iluvatar5150]

either the populace is a lot dumber than I thought

If that's true, then that's your own fault.

People are idiots.

 

[variant]

Yes Obama being black. Provoked everything. And he's the reason the right is crazy. This is the only thing I seen. The other stuff is your imagination.

It's weird that some people think the left should take responsibility for how crazy the right wing has gone.

We're not in a codependent relationship.

Trump picks a new fight every day and it was Obama's fault for stuff like treating the birthers like idiots.

 

[szechuan]

It's weird that some people think the Left should take responsibility for how crazy the right wing has gone.

We're not in a codependent relationship.

People just don't like blaming themselves.

The only argument as to why Trump won was the SJW's
The right loves blaming the Left for being SJW's now.

 

[Rion]

It's weird that some people think the left should take responsibility for how crazy the right wing has gone.

We're not in a codependent relationship.

Trump picks a new fight every day and it was Obama's fault for treating the birthers like idiots.

Nah, I just think that you guys should take responsibility for how insane and authoritarian the left has become.

 

[variant]

Nah, I just think that you guys should take responsibility for how insane and authoritarian the left has become.

Yeah everyone to the left of the tea party are all authoritarians now.

That is a reasonable opinion you have there that makes perfect sense.

 

[szechuan]

Nah, I just think that you guys should take responsibility for how insane and authoritarian the left has become.

Why are you describing Donald Trump? Oh and Trump is Right Wing just FYI.

 

[SolomonVII]

Obama who?

Already Obama's legacy of executive orders is being erased.
Obamacare will either be erased by an act of Congress, or will crumble because there is nothing there to sustain it.
That last eight years of Americana have been weak and ineffectual, and easy to forget.

Racial divide is a pretend issue in North America.
People who want to get along, get along.
Those who don't want to get along, retreat to the ghettos of their own making, or drive through the gates of their secluded gated communities.

Everybody else knows that the tribalism of race describes something that is as
superficial as the difference between a samosa and a taco.

 

[szechuan]

That last eight years of Americana have been weak and ineffectual, and easy to forget.

Weak and Ineffectual? Seal Team Six anybody? Stabilizing the Economy from Bush anybody?

Racial divide is a pretend issue in North America.
People who want to get along, get along.

Racial Divide a "pretend issue" lol, talk about ignoring an important issue around the world.

Already Obama's legacy of executive orders is being erased.

You do realize that there are things you can't pass with Executive Orders such as Bills that effect a huge part of the Economy.

Obamacare will either be erased by an act of Congress, or will crumble because there is nothing there to sustain it.

Which is why Republicans are racing to Grab all that Medicare money from Blue States. Oh and that Obamacare was always just a Bandaid to prevent Prices from Hiking even Further, it never did anything to prevent prices from Already Skyrocketing Before Obamacare.