Obama pro/con

[Voegelin]

I bet Obama is wishing Eliot Spitzer had fought to remain in the governor's office. Or an asteroid was headed toward earth. Anything but more questions about his grandmother and Jeremiah Wright.

 

[RealDealNeverstop]

Diehappy, thank you, i was really surprised but not anymore. Why do you think you wouldnt be welcomed as a brother in Christ? Iam the spitting image of the blonde haired blue eyed devil, and i have never had any issues when visiting predominantly black churches. Let me get some sources to cite so you can read some of Wright's work that hasnt been youtubed to death. As for medical 'research,' it wasnt quite that clean and methodical, especially for black women.

 

[oldbetang]

Oh, and I didnt simply asked for anyone to prove a negative. I asked why did 9E happen? Showing us why would inherently prove Wright's claim wrong. Like I said earlier, somebody else who criticizes Wright needs to help out.

You're asking me why 9/11 happened? Hmmmm..............I give up. Why did 9/11 happen?

 

[DieHappy]

How is it obvious? So far, the facts available point to a pastor unable to talk about Christ or the bible, but only about white America and a congregation willing to listen

i.e. you don't like his style (which you don't have to) but you're preconception that the guy only gave clearly racist speeches has been busted but you're not gracious enough to admit it.

I didn't say "clearly racist speeches." You are twisting my words. Stop it.

Let's look at this sermon you say has "busted" my preconception (the one you mis-read):

"This world is a ticking time bomb, with apartheid in one hemisphere and apathy in the other.

"This world is still more concerned about the color of skin than it is about the content of character—a world more finicky about what's on the outside of your head than about the quality of your education or what's inside your head.

"in spite of being on a world destroyed by hate and decimated by distrust, in spite of being on a world where famine and greed are uneasy bed partners, in spite of being on a world where apartheid and apathy feed the fires of racism and hatred, in spite of being on a world where nuclear nightmare draws closer with each second, in spite of being on a ticking time bomb,

"You may, like the African slaves, be able to sing, "Over my head I hear music in the air. Over my head I hear music in the air. Over my head I hear music in the air. There must be a God somewhere."

There's apartheid, racism, and hatred.
You may say you liked this sermon, that is your right. But in no way have you offered something that goes against what I said, that it appears he's more wrapped up in race than Christ.

Let's see if you can come up with another one.

 

[RealDealNeverstop]

PBS, May 20, 2005, 'Africentric Church' Great interview with Wright where he explains pretty well where he is coming from. UCC is predominantly white nationwide, which means the church wasnt doing much regarding the history of african americans in the context of Christianity. There are a TON of churches that are ostensibly Irish, Italian, etc. Yet, no complaints about those? I read about wright from different places so iam not simply referencing the church website.

 

[NPH]

The historical fact remains, and must be judged in the after-time, that the decision whether or not to use the atomic bomb to compel the surrender of Japan was never even an issue. There was unanimous, automatic, unquestioned agreement around our table; nor did I ever hear the slightest suggestion that we should do otherwise.
Winston S. Churchill, Triumph and Tragedy​

Stating that "we never batted an eye" after dropping the atom bombs.

Those are that rantings of a nutcase. Plain and simple.

You're confusing me. In one post you offer Churchill's statement that there was unanimity, no questioning, not even a suggestion of anything other than dropping the bomb ... then in another post you say that to claim such things are the rantings of a nutcase.

 

[RealDealNeverstop]

Oldbetang, this many years after 9E and you dont know why it happened? If you dont know why, then how can Wright's claim be wrong? At least he cares enough about the country to offer something more than 'I give up.'

 

[Grizzly]

I bet Obama is wishing Eliot Spitzer had fought to remain in the governor's office. Or an asteroid was headed toward earth. Anything but more questions about his grandmother and Jeremiah Wright.

I don't know. The speech is being pretty well received. Even some conservatives are acknowledging some positives.

http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003728319

 

[oldbetang]

You're confusing me. In one post you offer Churchill's statement that there was unanimity, no questioning, not even a suggestion of anything other than dropping the bomb ... then in another post you say that to claim such things are the rantings of a nutcase.

You say you're confused. Well, that makes two of us, since I have no idea where you are coming from. Churchill stated that the decision to drop the bomb was unanimous. He doesn't elaborate on the emotional effect that it may have had after the fact.

 

[RealDealNeverstop]

Diehappy, let me ask this: given the history of and current status of racism, is it unreasonable for a black pastor, who was alive when blacks could not vote, to spend a lot of time talking about racism? He does not simply posit the victim mentality. His church could not possibly have done all they have for each other and the community under a victim mentality.

 

[oldbetang]

Oldbetang, this many years after 9E and you dont know why it happened? If you dont know why, then how can Wright's claim be wrong?

Wright's claim is that it was America's chickens coming home to roost. The implication that it was deserved is clearly there. So what did the US do to deserve 9/11?

 

[RealDealNeverstop]

Dropping the bomb was not unanimous as i proved earlier with Eisenhower saying in his own words in his own freaking book he was against it. The doug-long.com site has plenty of quotes from top military officials and the majority were clearly against it. No wonder a non american had to be referenced. Isnt that usually a lib slam? To say you care more about what non americans think? Why is churchill being given more credit than the great Republican Ike?

 

[RealDealNeverstop]

Ummm, no, 'deserved' is an implication created to twist Wright's words. Do you even know what the phrase 'chickens coming home to roost' means?

 

[oldbetang]

Ummm, no, 'deserved' is an implication created to twist Wright's words. Do you even know what the phrase 'chickens coming home to roost' means?

Why don't you tell me what it means? And then tell us what it was that the US did in the past that resulted in the 9/11 chicken coming home to roost.

 

[RealDealNeverstop]

If you dont know what it means, how can Wright be criticized. If you dont know why 9E happened, again, how can Wright be criticized? See everyone, not all Repubs are talking point toe liners!

 

[NeTrips]

Two corollaries always follow the Obama victimology: moral equivalence and the
subtle suggestion that any who question his thesis of despair are themselves suspect.

So we hear of poor Barack’s grandmother’s private fears in the same breath as Wright’s public hatred. Geraldine Ferraro is understood in the same context as Reverend Wright. The Reagan Coalition and talk radio are identical to Reverend Wright — albeit without similar contexts for their own purported racism. Your own pastor, priest, or rabbi are analogous to Rev. Wright.And then, of course, your own motives are suspect if you question any of this sophistry.

For Michelle it is always “they” who raised new obstacles against this deprived Ivy League couple and their quest for the Presidency; for Barack it is those who play “snippets”, or the system of “corporate culture” that has made Wright the object of anger to similarly victimized poor white pawns. The message? Wright’s motives for espousing hatred are complex and misunderstood; your motives for worrying about Obama and his Pastor are simple and suspect.

http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=MWY2NDViOGE0YjNhNjU3NTI0ZGE5MGQ3NmJhODE2Y2E=

 

[Dannager]

http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=MWY2NDViOGE0YjNhNjU3NTI0ZGE5MGQ3NmJhODE2Y2E=

Yes, your motives for worrying about Obama and his pastor are simple and suspect.

 

[NeTrips]

...
Disagreeing with your pastor about transubstantiation is one thing. Debating whether government scientists are secretly trying to infect you with AIDS - that disagreement is a bit more profound.

At least it is for me.

Not Obama,...

Obama is right when he reminds us that all have sinned and come short of the glory of God. But where he is cynically and shamefully wrong is insisting that we all have fallen as far as he has.

The reason many of us are horrified by the senator’s connection to the Rev. Wright is that most Americans can’t imagine spending 20 minutes listening to his ignorant rantings, much less 20 years. Most of us would never even consider joining a church that preaches racial theology of any kind, much less the overt racism of the “black values system” at Obama’s church.

And now we’re supposed to believe that this man is going to heal our souls?

http://www.bostonherald.com/news/opinion/op_ed/view.bg?articleid=1081285

 

[NeTrips]

"I don't think my church is actually particularly controversial." -- Sen. Obama, March 2008.



"I never heard comments like these." -- Sen. Obama, also in March 2008



"Did I ever hear him make remarks that could be considered controversial while I sat in church? Yes." -- Sen. Obama, ALSO in March 2008.


Is it really a sign of personal integrity that a politician is BAD at lying?




And I say "lying" in the plural form of the word. Remember, this is the same Sen. Obama whose campaign denied it ever had any meeting of any kind with Canadian officials, and certainly not to discuss NAFTA. When they were caught lying, Sen. Obama admitted a meeting, but denied they discussed NAFTA. When the memo of the meeting came out ("We discussed NAFTA"), the campaign simply stopped answering questions.



This is the same Sen. Obama who denied an inappropriate fiscal relationship with Tony Rezco, only to later admit that the notorious and allegedly criminal Chicago hack had directly intervened to help Sen. Obama buy a multi-million house.



Oh, and then there's this:

The campaign had initially claimed Rezko-connected contributions were no more than $60,000, an amount the campaign donated to charity. Then the figure grew to around $86,000, and there were
additional revelations that put the amount at about $150,000. Obama's [new] $250,000 accounting was a substantial jump and clearly contradicted earlier campaign statements that Rezko was just one of "thousands of donors."
​

Sen. Obama is the candidate of change all right. Catch him in a lie, and he just changes his story.





This is part of the reason his campaign is in so much trouble. Democrats who want to elect a lying, ambitious political hack with no scruples or integrity don't need him. They already have Hillary

http://thenaturaltruth.blogspot.com/2008/03/what-did-barack-obama-not-know-and-when.html

 

[Markus6]

I didn't say "clearly racist speeches." You are twisting my words. Stop it.

Nah, I was misunderstanding your words, sorry. I thought you were saying that the black supremacist undertones present in his recent controversial speech were present in every speech he gave and the church was primarily racist. If you're just saying that he focuses on race issues a lot then, although these two sermons are all I've seen, I've got a suspicion that you're right. In my experience churches have an unfortunate tendency to focus on one issue (the issue their pastor is particularly strong on or one that is particularly relevant to their community) and neglect others. Osteen does it with prosperity, Phelps does it with condemnation of homosexuality, my pastor does it too and I suspect yours has a bias towards a certain issue as well. Although I don't think it's healthy for a church I'm not going to judge him for it.

And no, I don't particularly like his style and I wouldn't go to his church, I'm just convinced a lot of the negativity thrown in his direction is unwarranted.