I would hardly believe wiki over scriptural context/ the Greek wording used. Many church beliefs compromise scripture and it would be no surprise such compromise can be found on wiki.
Paul using the words "tongues of angels", makes it grammatically correct.
The context in the scripture we are discussing dictates that it is foreign language of any number of nations on earth.
I already quoted the verses to state that I do not agree with that. 1 Corinthians 14.
It is interesting that people who claim to have gifts, never really go out like the disciples did and prove their gifts. Mark 16:20 states that they went out into the world and used their signs and wonders to "confirm the word".
Mar 16:15 And he said to them, “Go into
all the world and proclaim the gospel to the whole creation." ESV
What is meant by the word? And what is the world? All the world, not just the mediterranean. If I go to China where they have not yet heard the word, and my style of preaching, my word based on the Gospel must be proven with signs and wonders like healings and secret thoughts revealed. CFAN has videos of crusades in Africa. Missions and local pastors use signs to help us believe. And some won't believe. The ancient Pharisees had reasons for why they would not believe. It took years to gain His own disciples understanding "at last". But in their droves with excellent preaching by Bonnke and Kolenda, Africans turned from Islam and paganism to Christ and stay on. Long ago there was John G Lake. Of course Billy Graham. There are so many. Hundreds of millions of Pentecostals.
Questions:
Is the bible complete?
Does the bible need to be confirmed anymore?
The Bible does not need confirmation, to say, a believer like Gordon Fee, or any who grew up in the Bible tradition, it is rather the Word preached live. Rather than the gifts confirming the OT, the OT confirmed the NT as it was unravelling. Paul and Peter... had to prove their sayings by the OT. And that all the time. Such as with the noble Bereans.
Anyway, back to the interesting thing about people who claim they have gifts. Gifts were to be used openly. People who claim this now days do not do this. They go to congregations that agree with their beliefs already. They never go out to a street corner and prove it.
Some do go to the streets, street healers, such as in movies like Holy Ghost and Finger of God... one of my local churches. CFAN with an audience of up to 9 million live. Non believers come to church and they hear gifts like I did. The format of church is more advanced than Paul on street corners, and Paul went into synagogues too. It is a lack of boldness and spiritual giftedness that holds people back.
Question:
If gift of tongues is still accessible, then all the other gifts are.
If that is the case, then do you believe in the Mormon belief system? Would you hold to their beliefs and follow them and reject your current beliefs?
If not, why?
Note: Joseph Smith claimed divine prophecies and claimed to have spoken with an angel.
Because a whole book does not just fall from the sky like the Book of Mormon. It takes OT proofs, gifts, and testimonies of repentances and holiness.
"Others" claimed they were drunk because they were "mocking" them. Your still faced with the problem that all the different national peoples there heard their language. It was literal foreign tongue, like German for example. Not some crazy muttering they do now days.
Some muttering as you call it nowadays is a foreign language. As I wrote earlier. There was some reason to mock.
Secondly, Paul didn't have a church. It is Christs church. Paul is merely a mouth piece to help advance the kingdom/church of Christ. (Matthew 16:18-19- Christs church/kingdom established in Acts 2)
By Paul's church I meant, that his labour formed it. All the churches of that time were Christ's. So they followed Paul's pattern of maturity and it was quite different than compared with Acts 2 and the acts of the apostles all speaking at once and the rushing wind, the tongues of fire... At Corinth as in 1 Corinthians 14, the tongues were not human languages. He directs them to edify each other rather than themselves with tongues, unless they interpret, because it was an open meeting. Not like in Acts 2 mostly Jews. It was open to any he would come. Praying in tongues alone at home is different.
Peace, faith, courage, love, does not come from tongues. This is utterly false. This premise doesn't even hold true in the secular either. Tongues if a spiritual gift given by the Holy Spirit to some, to confirm the word, of which we do not need anymore since the bibles completion.
Once again the OT confirmed the word and so long as anyone preaches a word, if it is correct, it helps if it is confirmed with gifts, even healings. There are healings today. Back in my Christian roots, there was the account of a boy healed from jaw cancer. And I saw a crippled boy get up and jog.
Not for each word but for
each hearer, there is help for them, if there are gifts accompanying.
Tongues is said to edify the one who prays. So makes them more just and Godly. The Spirit gives the words, the heart prays, God works in us.
We lost from the Bible many accounts of proving gifts and OT debates from Paul... to assure us of the NT correctness...
WE need the proofs, not the words in the NT. They don't need proofs, although a Messianic Jew may diagree.
Yes, the writers had the Holy Spirit directing the scriptures writing. The bible IS composed of historical evidence, signs and wonders, witnesses, and proof of God and Jesus, and that Jesus was the Christ. The word was indeed confirmed using gifts. It literally states such:
Mark 16:20
John 20:30-31
Quite literally.
I agree.
Yes, we can apply the same principle.
No, the bible literally says the gifts will cease. It is not my opinion. I placed scripture down.
No, the Bible says the gifts will cease when Christ returns. Christ described his return as being like lightning, lighting up east and west. Lightning is a thing. It reveals. Then when Christ returns, no more need for gifts of knowledge, perfect knowledge will be abundant.
We can say gifts were for the NT because it literally states it. I gave the verses above earlier.
If Jews and other were not going to believe using signs and wonders, why do you think it would be beneficial today?
There are accounts of Jesus himself doing signs and they still did not believe.
The Pharisees would not repent with John and resisted signs but others believed.
I think Jesus said:
blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed. (Jn 20:29)
We have the bible. It is "that which is perfect". About 40 authors in thousands of years and it is quite accurate and no discrepancies 2 Timothy 3:16-17.
This scripture does not say that the Bible is somehow complete and perfect and the Bible says we need the Spirit, the anointing and gifts, living water, new birth... The Word and the Spirit, gives growth. Sola Scriptura is limited. It is the reader who can become complete. As it was with Timothy from the quote.
John wrote this to people who were Christians for some time already. They had been taught and were knowledgeable from all that was taught to them.
You forgot to include:
21 I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.
22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also
That puts the context more clearly for you. If you had been studying in botany and got your degree, you to would have the knowledge needed. 1 John was written in about 85-90 AD. Over 50 years after Christs death on the cross. The people John is writing to, must be mature Christians. However he does contain messages for the younger ones too in this chapter 2.
So mature Complete Christians have the anointing. And they maintain Trinitarianism.
The anointing has the same power that He had with Abraham and Moses...