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Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by AubreyM, Apr 5, 2021 at 12:29 PM.

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  1. BNR32FAN

    BNR32FAN He’s a Way of life Supporter

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    I think Romans 2 is one of the strongest messages refuting irresistible grace in my opinion.

    “Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance? But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, who WILL RENDER TO EACH PERSON ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS: to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life; but to those who are selfishly ambitious and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation. There will be tribulation and distress for every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek, but glory and honor and peace to everyone who does good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. For there is no partiality with God.”
    ‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:4-11‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬
     
  2. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Most of Israel was lost. But salvation was of the Jews and nowhere else to be found. It's the same today with the Church being Israel.
     
  3. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Here's a tip. Google and study the 5 points of Calvinism. It will explain much you seem to be lacking.
     
  4. AubreyM

    AubreyM Active Member

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    I reject that teaching, thank you for the offer though. Still love you Anyway and you can believe that if you desire. Take care @Dave L
     
  5. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Have you ever studied it? Or just heard a negative review of it?
     
  6. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    What if Calvin is right about the election of grace? Does this mean you reject God?
     
  7. BNR32FAN

    BNR32FAN He’s a Way of life Supporter

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    We know where it came from and what it teaches. Are those websites going to address the scriptures that we’ve provided that refute Calvin’s doctrines? No they won’t.
     
  8. Studyman

    Studyman Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I appreciate the thoughts behind your post. My point is that we should allow the Christ Himself to instruct us as to what Salvation is. Especially in the light of so many warnings about doctrines and commandments of men who call HIM Lord. I posted the scriptures for examination, so we can see what Jesus has to say about things.

    You said "My post is to let people know all the sins are paid for".

    Jesus said;

    John 9:41 Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth.

    If their sin was paid for, or going to be paid for, how can it remain? It is written in the Holy Scriptures that Jesus was slain from the foundation of the world. If all sin in the world is covered/ forgiven/forgotten by His Death, then there would be no sin "From the foundation of the world".

    There are many religions who call Jesus their God, but Jesus said if they live in transgression to His Father's Law HE doesn't know them. I believe these Warnings and Word's of the Christ of the Bible are important too, and in Love wanted to share them so we can be edified by HIS Truth, "All of it".
     
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  9. Studyman

    Studyman Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Again, I am convinced the Word's of the Bible are truth, while the words of religious men, not so much.

    Acts 3:18 But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled.

    19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

    If the sins of the world are already paid for, then these people wouldn't have to change "Before" their sins are blotted out.

    It seems that according to the Bible, Jesus has the power to blot out the sins of every man ever born in this world. And HE is Faithful to atone for the sins of EVERY man who follow His Instructions, IOW, whosoever comes to Him. This seems perfectly reasonable to me, I find no reason to leave this part out of any conversation regarding salvation.
     
  10. Randy777

    Randy777 Well-Known Member

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    A lack of repentance would suggest one who continues to sin after coming to the knowledge of the truth.
    The Lords appointing of Paul shows a change of heart for "receiving" the forgiveness of sins and a declaration of being sanctified by "faith" in Him.

    to open their eyes and turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, so that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me.'

    Those who hold to the testimony of Jesus and obey Gods commands will be saved.

    Two asked something of Jesus when He was on the cross but only one received a reply. The one who believed in Him.
     
  11. AubreyM

    AubreyM Active Member

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    Hello study man, it is understandable.

    This was before he died and resurrected.

    When Jesus Christ was walking around -> Sin was not paid for yet.

    Jesus Christ eventually did die. Some people had their eyes open afterwards to their sin of unbelief -> some continued in it.

    The wrath of God was eventually poured out on the nation of Israel -> because of their sin against God -> not repenting or believing.

    What do you mean about From the foundation of the world?
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2021 at 7:57 AM
  12. spiritfilledjm

    spiritfilledjm Well-Known Member Supporter

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    (I'm sure this point has already been made...However as I'm late to the party, I'm not reading through every response which is up to 6 pages haha)

    Repented or not, yes, God forgave us our sins. However, Hebrews 10:26-27 makes it completely clear that anyone who willfully chooses to live a life of sin, there is no sacrifice for them, only judgement because they threw the sacrifice Jesus made in his face.

    Let's say I get shot and cuss because of the pain. I die from my wounds without asking forgiveness for cussing...God is still just to forgive, He knows my heart.

    Let's say I choose to live a life of crime, I commit murder, I steal with no remorse, but I read my Bible and believe that Jesus Christ died for my sins so I can do what I want with no consequences...that is willfully sinning...I may know God exists and His Son died for my sins but I do not actually believe, if I did I would be bearing the fruit of that belief.
     
  13. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    “And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.” Revelation 13:8 (KJV 1900)

    Did Christ pay for the sins of the damned?
     
  14. AubreyM

    AubreyM Active Member

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    Conjecture. Still love you even if you believe in Calvin, and believe in his teaching.

    Thank you for your post.

    Thank you for your post.
     
  15. AubreyM

    AubreyM Active Member

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    Yes. He paid for the sins of every person, including those who perished in the flood of Noah.

    He came preaching to those in prison of She'ol according to 1 Peter 3:19

    Those from noahs age @Dave L

    *Edit correction
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2021 at 8:18 AM
  16. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    What if you are wrong? And Calvin is right? How can you serve God if you hate God as Calvin presents Him in sin and grace?
     
  17. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    So He didn't save any if he didn't save them.
     
  18. AubreyM

    AubreyM Active Member

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    Not going to communicate with this dialogue anymore.

    Personally reject Calvin's doctrine of TULIP.

    Do not hate you, or am I going to tell you what you believe is wrong, you believe what you desire to believe. For me am going to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, and God our Father.

    Though you can have freedom to believe Calvin and his doctrine that is fine with me, and have no problem with you as a Christian brother who believes on the Lord Jesus Christ.

    God bless you @Dave L, Jesus Christ is right, and has had the victory over Sin, Death, Satan, and Hell.
     
  19. spiritfilledjm

    spiritfilledjm Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Thank you for being a great example of today's Verse of the Day from Youversion's Bible App, 1 Peter 3:15
     
  20. BNR32FAN

    BNR32FAN He’s a Way of life Supporter

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    I wish Calvin were here to explain to me how in Romans 2:4-5 Paul says that God’s patience and kindness is leading someone to repentance and they their own stubbornness they are storing up for their self the wrath of God on judgement day. I don’t see how that’s not a clear example of God granting grace to someone and they are resisting it. Or better yet Jesus’ own words in Luke 13:6-9.

    “And He began telling this parable: “A man had a fig tree which had been planted in his vineyard; and he came looking for fruit on it and did not find any. And he said to the vineyard-keeper, ‘Behold, for three years I have come looking for fruit on this fig tree without finding any. Cut it down! Why does it even use up the ground?’ And he answered and said to him, ‘Let it alone, sir, for this year too, until I dig around it and put in fertilizer; and if it bears fruit next year, fine; but if not, cut it down.’ ””
    ‭‭Luke‬ ‭13:6-9‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

    Even despite Jesus Himself giving special attention to the tree the outcome is still uncertain whether the tree will bear fruit or if it will be chopped down. That’s another clear sign that despite someone being granted grace they are still capable of failing to comply resulting in condemnation. So we can’t simply believe in Calvin’s theology because of the possibility he was right when the scriptures clearly indicate that he was wrong. There’s a perfectly good reason why his theology wasn’t taught for the first 1500 years of Christianity and has been rejected by every single church established by the apostles. If grace were irresistible then these people mentioned in Romans 2 could not possibly be storing up the wrath of God on judgement day due to their stubbornness and unwillingness to repent and every tree that Christ gives special attention to could not possibly fail to bear fruit and be chopped down. I think a more plausible question is what if the church had been right all along ever since the apostles established it 2000 years ago? Wouldn’t that make sense?
     
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