Null/Voided Out

[TenthAveN]

Then does that the choice to follow Jesus is an emotional one?

Look up David Wood's testimony on YouTube and I think he has a video specifically talking about how his sociopathic nature has no impact on his decision.

Would you say it’s an emotional one? I’m not so sure anymore.

 

[Silly Uncle Wayne]

Would you say it’s an emotional one? I’m not so sure anymore.

Spell check may have made my meaning unclear. However, my point would be that emotions can change and therefore a decision made based on emotions can be unmade the same way. It is possible someone makes an emotional choice and eventually decides it is the right one, but the choice is the important thing and emotions can get in the way of that.

 

[timothyu]

but the choice is the important thing and emotions can get in the way of that.

A couple of elections have proved that where choice was emotional and not made on issues.

 

[Albion]

Predestination is the same as a rough description of Daoism where a person's life path is set at the moment of birth according to conditions in the universe at the moment. The path is set but side trips can be many. People are carried along in the flow in the way people see themselves as carried along by the will of God.

Predestination refers to having had one's final destination chosen for him. It does not mean that everything in the person's life has been scripted in advance, which however is how you've described Daoism here.

 

[timothyu]

Predestination refers to having had one's final destination chosen for him. It does not mean that everything in the person's life has been scripted in advance, which however is how you've described Daoism here.

Predestination in either setting would have the same navigation system leading to the same destination. Whether we stop off for a beer, take detours or decided to camp off road somewhere permanently is still a choice in either. Both systems also allow for purposes to be served along the way, in the way scenery changes on a long journey.

 

[Albion]

Predestination in either setting would have the same navigation system leading to the same destination. Whether we stop off for a beer, take detours or decided to camp off road somewhere permanently is still a choice in either.

No, it's not. I know that this is the conclusion that many people reach when the word "predestination" appears, but it's a misunderstanding.

 

[timothyu]

No, it's not.

Then Jesus lied in the Parable of the Sower? The seeds were good, their outcome not always so. They were scattered, not meticulously planted. But there is no denying some of us seem addicted to the pursuit of the knowledge of God.

 

[Albion]

Then Jesus lied in the Parable of the Sower?

You think so?

The seeds were good, their outcome not always so.

This observation doesn't disprove predestination, but my point didn't intend to take a stand one way or the other about the truth or falsity of predestination anyway.

It was simply a comment intended to advise people that, theologically speaking, predestination means just what it says, i.e. one's destination in eternity is pre-set. IT DOES NOT MEAN that every act and thought and experience in life has been preprogrammed.

 

[timothyu]

You think so?

Nope. We lands where we lands and unfortunately we often let the world dictate how we grow

 

[timothyu]

It was simply a comment intended to advise people that, theologically speaking, predestination means just what it says, i.e. one's destination in eternity is pre-set. IT DOES NOT MEAN that every act and thought and experience in life has been preprogrammed.

Theology or taught by Jesus? I've never been one to put much faith in mankind, beings who like to self justify themselves.

 

[martymonster]

Predestination refers to having had one's final destination chosen for him. It does not mean that everything in the person's life has been scripted in advance, which however is how you've described Daoism here.

Rom 9:18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
Rom 9:19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
Rom 9:20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
Rom 9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

Hmmmm....

 

[StevenBelievin]

In John 5:40 Jesus tells His listeners that they "refuse to come to Him that they might have life". That's a decision on their part to refuse the offer of life. Jesus is placing the blame squarely on them for this refusal. I believe that when someone believes and receives Jesus that they are making a decision as well. However this decision to receive / believe is preceded by revelation. When Jesus asked his disciples who they thought He was and Peter answered "You're the Son of God", Jesus replied that it was not revealed to him by flesh and blood but by His Father in heaven. Matthew 16:17

The most dramatic example of saving revelation would be Paul's conversion. Being knocked off your horse by Jesus Himself would make it pretty hard to refuse the offer.

That begs the question "Why doesn't God reveal Himself like that to everyone"?

I'm not sure I know that answer to that other than to say that God knows those who are His.

2 Timothy 2:19

 

[timothyu]

Hmmmm....

But why would the Potter want a pot factory made rather than one that didn't first stand the test of a firing? All are destined for the Kingdom. Few make it.

 

[martymonster]

But why would the Potter want a pot factory made rather than one that didn't first stand the test of a firing? All are destined for the Kingdom. Few make it.

Jer 18:1 The word which came to Jeremiah from the LORD, saying,
Jer 18:2 Arise, and go down to the potter's house, and there I will cause thee to hear my words.
Jer 18:3 Then I went down to the potter's house, and, behold, he wrought a work on the wheels.
Jer 18:4 And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it.


This is what God is doing. As for the kingdom... it is within you.

 

[timothyu]

As for the kingdom... it is within you.

Yes the original pot was substandard but upon finding His Kingdom within us a new pot of the old material we form in His image rather than our own.

 

[Beanieboy]

The choice is not in following the Christ but listening to His Gospel of the Kingdom and choosing whether to reject the will of man over the will of God, or to retain it.

Can you define what the will of man/God is?
Can you explain the difference?

My understanding of following Jesus is loving your neighbor, and when you love your neighbor, you love God. It's never been about sin, and refraining from it, but focusing on loving your neighbor actively.

At every moment, we choose.

I don't believe there is predestination, which implies that some are chosen, and some are not, and condemned with no free will. Rather, all are loved, are children of God, and the choice is whether you accept that, choose to accept God's love, and allow him to heal and change you through divine love.

I believe one reason some people prefer pre-d is that it implies that God chooses only some people, because he only loves some people, not all, so the believer can pick and choose whom they love as well. ("Don't even the pagans do that?"(")

 

[timothyu]

Can you define what the will of man/God is?

To put it simply, man is about self, while God is about others. The original sin was self awareness. Before that man functioned for others, which is what loving all as self involves. If it is good for you it is good for them, If it is bad for you it is bad for them. All through the Bible God promotes His will over ours, while man building this world in our own image, continually puts our will before His, often using God to self justify our actions rather than change them to suit God's will.

 

[Lawrence87]

It was simply a comment intended to advise people that, theologically speaking, predestination means just what it says, i.e. one's destination in eternity is pre-set. IT DOES NOT MEAN that every act and thought and experience in life has been preprogrammed.

Do this mean essentially that before someone is born God has decided whether they will go to hell or not? Rather than allowing them to freely come to Him or not.

That if someone's ultimate fate is predestined to be hell, they can try to love God, but in the end their actions will be constrained so as to lead them to hell? Or does it mean that these people will never be given the chance to try to love God?

Forgive me, but I think in any case this theology doesn't accord with a loving being. If Saint Paul was predestined to Heaven despite in earlier life presecuting and killing Christians, why would God place limits on anyone? It seems abhorrent to me.

 

[Llewelyn Stevenson]

What are your thoughts on this subject.

Is following Christ Jesus Christ a choice?

Did Matthew when Jesus stated ‘follow me’ make the choice to do so? Maybe this one was predestined?

Either way, can people make the choice to follow God or completely reject him in this life? Or is it a preordained thing and only some people get to the choice to?

Not too strong on the theological debate concerning this, all I know is, I made a choice.

Whether I could have made a different one or not did not occur to me at the time, but I did choose.

As a little child I said, "Lord, this is not my life, it is yours. I will live it for you."

Sounds like a choice to me.

 

[Llewelyn Stevenson]

Well, according to that definition, not only am I not a Christian, but I also find it impossible to be a Christian. It is beyond my current abilities. How do I reconcile this realization with Jesus' statement that His yoke is easy?

His yoke is easy because, when he indwells you, he gives you the ability to do these things. Do not trust your abilities, trust his.