Not keeping (sunday) sabbath

[Freth]

Here is a longer article by Dr John on the subject:

Are the Sabbath laws binding on Christians today?

We believe the Old Testament regulations governing Sabbath observances are ceremonial, not moral, aspects of the law. As such, they are no longer in force, but have passed away along with the sacrif

www.gty.org

His point on Colossians 2:16-17 is convincing ,to me

The book of Acts records the apostles keeping the Sabbath. This after the crucifixion.

• Acts 13:14 But when they departed from Perga, they came to Antioch in Pisidia, and went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and sat down.
• Acts 13:27 For they that dwell at Jerusalem, and their rulers, because they knew him not, nor yet the voices of the prophets which are read every sabbath day, they have fulfilled them in condemning him.
• Acts 13:42 And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.
• Acts 13:44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.

Of special note.

Why were they keeping the Sabbath? We were commanded to remember.

• Acts 15:21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

Paul kept the Sabbath. Why would he keep the Sabbath if his teachings were contrary to its perpetual observance? The answer is they're not.

• Acts 17:2 Then Paul, as his custom was, went in to them, and for three Sabbaths reasoned with them from the Scriptures.

Paul gives plenty of context in Colossians 2:14-17.

• Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; and having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
• Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

The Ten Commandments are not the handwriting of ordinances, are not nailed to the cross, are not a shadow of things to come.

 

[Ceallaigh]

Hello, thank you for the reply. I acknowledge your points. It seems to be a difficult issue to resolve, with good arguments on both sides.

Here is a quick article from John MacArthur- who gives a more biblical argument than i probably will ever be able to:

For your consideration:

Should Christians Keep the Sabbath?

The following is an excerpt from The MacArthur New Testament Commentary on Hebrews 4. For if Joshua had given them rest, He would not have spoken of another day after that. There remains there

www.gty.org

Another thing you might want to take into consideration is that Christian sabbath keeping didn't really take off until the 19th century. And most teachers on MacArthur's level pretty much have the same view regarding it.

 

[jameshjr]

Another thing you might want to take into consideration is that Christian sabbath keeping didn't really take off until the 19th century.

Hello thank you for the message.

That is an interesting point about christians not keeping the sabbath until the 19th century; i had not heard that.

And most teachers on MacArthur's level pretty much have the same view regarding it.

yes, but as i mentioned in an earlier post, Voddie Baucham (another teacher that i have great admiration for, and consider to be at least close to Dr John) has the opposite point of view.

As mentioned, i am certainly leaning more towards the fact that Christians no longer need to keep the Sabbath day.

 

[Ceallaigh]

Hello thank you for the message.

That is an interesting point about christians not keeping the sabbath until the 19th century; i had not heard that.

yes, but as i mentioned in an earlier post, Voddie Baucham (another teacher that i have great admiration for, and consider to be at least close to Dr John) has the opposite point of view.

As mentioned, i am certainly leaning more towards the fact that Christians no longer need to keep the Sabbath day.

What I was talking about having mostly started off in the 19th century, is Christians keeping the seventh day sabbath. The same as Jews do. The biggest denomination which does that are the Seventh-Day Adventists. The biggest deal for them is going to church on Saturday instead of Sunday. They believe the Catholic church rebelled against God around the 3rd century and changed church time from Saturday to Sunday.

Voddie Baucham is a first day Sunday sabbath keeper. But as far as I'm concerned the Bible makes it quite clear that the Sabbath day is the seventh day of the week, not the first. So that's not really Sabbath keeping. Also I imagine as a Pastor he has a lot of work to do on Sunday and it's his busiest day.

True Biblical Sabbath keeping is putting aside all work from sunset Friday to sunset Saturday. That's what keeping the Sabbath day is.

Now I actually do keep the Sabbath day most of the time by refraining from any kind or chore from sundown Friday to sundown Saturday. Purely as a matter of personal choice. As a spiritual discipline.

 

[BobRyan]

Another thing you might want to take into consideration is that Christian sabbath keeping didn't really take off until the 19th century. And most teachers on MacArthur's level pretty much have the same view regarding it.

Well in Acts 18:4 we see it "every Sabbath" for Christian gathering for worship, gospel preaching and evangelism for both gentiles and Jews. Even believing ones would be coming back Sabbath after Sabbath in that "every Sabbath" scenario for Acts 18.

We don't see anything at all about "every week day 1" in the NT specifically for gospel preaching , worship service etc

 

[BobRyan]

Where does it say Sunday specifically?

It mentions week-day-1.

We on roman Georgian calender today and it was the Romans that crucified jesus?

Romans had their own names for the day of the week.

The Bible just calls it "week day 1"

You ain't going "hell" either way because god is in the heart (love)

God says

"Love Me and keep My Commandments" Ex 20:6​

"if you Love Me Keep My Commandments" John 14:15​

"This is the LOVE of God that we keep his Commandments" 1 John 5:3​

So we do agree on loving God as a commandment.

else we are in danger of same mistakes of those who put mosiac law above God's love

In Mark 7:6-13 Jesus makes some very pointed statements connecting scripture like this "Moses said" = "Word of God" = "Commandment of God".

So while we don't want to put God's Word -- above God - we can still affirm Christ's acceptance of it.

 

[Semper-Fi]

Here is a longer article by Dr John on the subject:

Are the Sabbath laws binding on Christians today?

We believe the Old Testament regulations governing Sabbath observances are ceremonial, not moral, aspects of the law. As such, they are no longer in force, but have passed away along with the sacrif

www.gty.org

His point on Colossians 2:16-17 is convincing ,to me

Colossians 2:16

"The phrase "a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day" refers to
the annual, monthly, and weekly holy days of the Jewish calendar"

I believe that those are Gods Holy Sabbath days mentioned here. The Hebrew bible,
Hebrew calendar and other things [the Oracles of God] where preserved by the Jews
to be given to us. Acts 7:38, Romans 3:2, Hebrews 5:12, 1 Peter 4:11

Oracles like when does a day start, the 7 day weekly cycle, months and
yearly cycles so His Sabbaths can be observed correctly in season.

God’s number symbolizing completeness
Gods 7 annual Holyday Sabbaths, and the weekly Sabbath. Every one
of Gods 7 annual Holyday has an important and different meaning to them.

The [meat, or in drink] is in relation to Passover observance, feast of
unleavened bread and other [feasts] Holy days commanded.

Do you know the New test. tells us to keep Passover and the feast of U.B.?

"If Paul were referring to special ceremonial dates of rest in that
passage, why would he have used the word "Sabbath?" He had already
mentioned the ceremonial dates when he spoke of festivals and new moons."

Yes The weekly Sabbath day is also included in Colossians 2:16-17
as "things to come" in those verses, and rest where does it fit?

God patterened the 7 day week, 6 days work/labor, and 7th day rest,
and took and expanded it to 6000 years of mankinds toil, and the
last [or 7th] 1000 years picture our [promised rest] in the mill. A time
when Satan is in a forced rest from deceiving the nations, and all mankind.

6 days/6000 years, and 1 day/1ooo years. 2 Peter 3:8, 2 Thessalonians 1:7

 

[Semper-Fi]

His point on Colossians 2:16-17 is convincing ,to me

1.
In Colossians 2:16-17, Paul explicitly refers to the Sabbath as a shadow
of Christ, which is no longer binding since the substance (Christ) has come.

Colossians 2:17- Point one

Every time a new translation comes out, that verse gets more and
more changed in it's meaning from the original inspired words.

An Example is (NCV) Translation
17 These things were like a shadow of what was to come.
But what is true and real has come and is found in Christ.

Or the (NLT) For these rules are only shadows of the reality
yet to come. And Christ himself is that reality.

Newer versions above compared to older translations.

This is the King James Version (KJV 1900)
17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body "is" of Christ.

The word "is" is in italics, means it was added to previous transcripts,
changed in about the 4th century, and should not be used and should
be omitted when studying Gods word.

the original verse would have been
17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body of Christ.

Do not let anyone tell you about Gods Holy days.... but the body of Christ.

Point 2

At the time of verse 17, Christ was already dead.
The "things to come" here is in future tense, not past tense.
It refires to things to come even still today soon Apon us.

People think Jesus last Passover was the end of His Holy days, but
it is only the First Holyday in his plan for mankind's future.
They are patterned after the spring and fall harvests in Israel.
The first three [spring] Holydays have now passed.

The first Passover was when God killed a lamb or goat, in order
to cover the nakedness (type of sin)of Adam and Eve with skins.

1 The Passover pictures the death of Christ for the remission
of sins that are past. We accept the blood of Christ.

2 The days of Unleaved bread-having two high-day sabbaths.
Feast of Unleaved bread represents putting away sin, leaven
is also a type of sin (1 Cor 5:8), 7 complete lifetime..

The Passover, as well as the feast of Unleavened Bread was
ordained and established forever, prior to the Old Covenant.

Originally there was no sacrifices— no meat and drink ordinances
held on these days. See Jeremiah 7:22-23 These days were not instituted
for the purpose of the sacrifices, sacrifices were added for transgressions.

3 Pentecost or “feast of firstfruits”, The New Testament Church
started on this annual sabbath day. The calling out continues today.

"things to come" still

the last 4 fall Holy days picture/start after Christ returns

4 Feast of Trumpets, Christs return at the last trump.

5 Day of Atonement, binding of Satan- at-one-ment with God.

6 Feast of Tabernacles, 1000 years mill- lived in booths.

7 Last Great Day, after mill, books are opened, other books.

The 1ooo years in the mill. Sabbath, pictured by the 7th day of week. A time when
"The whole earth is at rest, and is quiet: they break forth into singing. Isaiah 14:7

Leviticus 23 we find a summary of these annual holy days, set feasts.
Jesus Christ keep these days, preached a special message on these days.

 

[BobRyan]

Colossians 2:16

Yes The weekly Sabbath day is also included in Colossians 2:16-17
as "things to come" in those verses, and rest where does it fit?

Until you notice that the entire chapter is about making stuff up -- it is not about condemning any text of scripture.

Col 2:
4 I say this so that no one will delude you with persuasive argument. 5 For even though I am absent in body, nevertheless I am with you in spirit, rejoicing to see your good discipline and the stability of your faith in Christ.

8 See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ....

16 Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a sabbath day— 17 things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ. 18 Let no one keep defrauding you of your prize by delighting in self-abasement and the worship of the angels, taking his stand on visions he has seen, inflated without cause by his fleshly mind, 19 and not holding fast to the head, from whom the entire body, being supplied and held together by the joints and ligaments, grows with a growth which is from God.

20 If you have died with Christ to the elementary principles of the world, why, as if you were living in the world, do you submit yourself to decrees, such as, 21 “Do not handle, do not taste, do not touch!” 22 (which all refer to things destined to perish with use)—in accordance with the commandments and teachings of men? 23 These are matters which have, to be sure, the appearance of wisdom in self-made religion and self-abasement and severe treatment of the body, but are of no value against fleshly indulgence

 

[Semper-Fi]

Until you notice that the entire chapter is about making stuff up -

Do you think I am just making things up? what do you disagree with?

- it is not about condemning any text of scripture.

Do you think I condemn parts of scripture? Where was that?

Are you saying that Gods Sabbaths are "according to the tradition of men" ?

 

[BobRyan]

.

Do you think I am just making things up?

No I think Paul is addressing the problem of people making stuff up in the days of this letter to the church of the Colosians as noted in the highlighted text above. Paul is not attacking scripture - rather he is attacking the problem of people at that time making stuff up.

Are you saying that Gods Sabbaths are "according to the tradition of men" ?

No - and neither is Paul in Col 2.

Both Matt 7 and Col 2 condemn "judging others" - but that did not delete God's Sabbath in Matt 7 before the cross, and does not delete it in Col 2.

In my statements above I mention
1. making stuff up from their imagination as Paul states in vs 18-19, and vs 8 and vs 21 - as you see it highlighted in red

 

[Semper-Fi]

.- but that did not delete God's Sabbath in Matt 7 before the cross, and does not delete it in Col 2.

I agree, and We should Remember to keep the weekly Sabath Holy.
On the seventh day God made the Sabbath, not by work, but by rest.
Was He so fatigued He was forced to stop and rest? Positively not,
for God “fainteth not, neither is weary” (Isaiah 40:28). Why then.
What God did was put His holy presence in a reoccurring weekly event.

I believe we should also keep Gods annual Sabbath convocations.
I can show just as many reason to keep the annual Holy days,
as you do in showing how we should keep the weekly Sabbath.
I will try and make a comparison between the two tomorrow.

Both Matt 7 and Col 2 condemn "judging others"

I have not judged anyone here that I know of. My wife goes to
church on some Sundays, I have never judged her or others.
I do complain though when she makes me drop her off sometimes.

I know I complained about new bible translations in post above.
Some new Bible translations use gender-inclusive language even.
I believe every word, jot and tittle is important and God inspired.
That is why I think we should stick as close to original as we can.

I like to use e-Sword for help, and mostly use [kj] bible translation.
I wish I could read/wright Greek and Hebrew, and faster typing skills.

 

[Semper-Fi]

Semper-Fi said:
Colossians 2:16

Yes The weekly Sabbath day is also included in Colossians 2:16-17
as "things to come" in those verses, and rest where does it fit?

Until you notice that the entire chapter is about making stuff up
-- it is not about condemning any text of scripture.

I am not condemning any text of scripture, or
that Paul is attacking/conflicting scripture.
I think you where way off base with your red letter comment.

I have studied Gods annual Sabbaths sever times, and they have way more
meaning to them then people realize. I could not find my notes on it
though, I will have to spend time to make one. The idea the last 4 fall
annual events could still be a picture of something in the future is
really not that far fetched.

Have you ever done a study on them? We know Christ is Our Passover
Lamb, but this is only one of the 7 Holy annual Sabbaths of our Lord.
Do you know what the other 6 Holy days mean/stand for?
-

And Yes The weekly Sabbath day is included in Colossians 2:16.
I feel we/ I need to go back to this verse and start over.
I will try and make smaller posts on each subject.

"Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD :"

 

[Semper-Fi]

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink,
or in respect of an holyday G1859, or of the new moon,
or of the sabbath G4521 days:

holyday G1859
ἑορτή
heortē
heh-or-tay'
Of uncertain affinity; a festival: - feast, holyday.
Total KJV occurrences: 27

sabbath G4521
σάββατον
sabbaton
sab'-bat-on
Of Hebrew origin [H7676]; the Sabbath (that is, Shabbath),
or day of weekly repose from secular avocations (also the
observance or institution itself); by extension a se'nnight,
that is, the interval between two Sabbaths; likewise the
plural in all the above applications: - sabbath (day), week.
Total KJV occurrences: 68

H7676
שַׁבָּת
shabbâth
shab-bawth'
Intensive from H7673; intermission, that is, (specifically) the Sabbath: - (+ every) sabbath.
Total KJV occurrences: 111

Col 2:16 Has both annual Sabbath feast days mentioned, and the weekly Sabbath.

 

[Semper-Fi]

Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things "to come";...

I would again point out that "to come" is in the future tense.
When this was said, Christ had already died and rose again.
This was not referring to the past events, but future.

What every you apply in verse 17 includes the weekly and annual Sabbaths.
-

Col 2:17 ...Semicolon; but the body G4983 "is" of Christ.

I would like to mention again the word "is" in italics and was added
from the original inspired word of God, and should be left out.

The word "Body"
G4983
σῶμα
sōma
so'-mah
From G4982; the body (as a sound whole), used in a very wide
application, literally or figuratively: - bodily, body, slave.
Total KJV occurrences: 146

Several verses before, and two verses down we have the head and body mentioned.

Col 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
10And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power

Col 2:17 ...; but the body of Christ.

Col 2:19 And not holding the Head G2776, from which all the
body G4983 by joints and bands having nourishment ministered,
and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God.

"Christ, who is the head G2776 of his body G4983, the church."
"Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body."

"Now ye are the body G4983 of Christ, and members in particular."
"so we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members..."

"that the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body,
and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:"

Ephesians 4:12 "for the perfecting of the saints, for the work
of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:"

In Colossians Paul was edifying the body of Christ.
Clearly the last part of Col 2:17 should be read as written.....; but the body of Christ.

Let no man therefore judge you..., but [rather let] the body of Christ [determine it].