Not keeping (sunday) sabbath

[ralliann]

nope.

Scripture is never paganism - which is why the NT quotes the OT so often.

Take Eph 6:2 for example - OT Law quoted and affirmed
This also explains why Paul can be preaching the Gospel "Every Sabbath" in the synagogues to both gentiles and Jews (even believing ones).

Scripture is never called "weak and beggerly".

If it were then in Rom 14 all the Bible holy days would have been condemned (rather than defended by saying that you are not allowed to judge anyone for choosing "one above the other")

More scripture details please --

Your post illustrates the scripture-condemning endpoint that the turn you are taking in Gal 4 - ends up in.

suggestions are not as convincing as is scripture

I already gave you scripture.

 

[BobRyan]

I already gave you scripture.

But not one that condemns scripture.

Turns out - scripture affirms scripture rather than condemning scripture as a form of paganism or syncretism with paganism

If we ignore every single Bible detail in the following post - we could imagine some scenario where scripture is made to condemn scripture

nope.

Scripture is never paganism - which is why the NT quotes the OT so often.

Take Eph 6:2 for example - OT Law quoted and affirmed
This also explains why Paul can be preaching the Gospel "Every Sabbath" in the synagogues to both gentiles and Jews (even believing ones).

Scripture is never called "weak and beggerly".

If it were then in Rom 14 all the Bible holy days would have been condemned (rather than defended by saying that you are not allowed to judge anyone for choosing "one above the other")

More scripture details please --

Your post illustrates the scripture-condemning endpoint that the turn you are taking in Gal 4 - ends up in.

suggestions are not as convincing as is scripture

But as noted above - that would turn Rom 14 on its head not just turning Gal 4 on its head.

 

[ralliann]

But not one that condemns scripture.

Turns out - scripture affirms scripture rather than condemning scripture as a form of paganism or syncretism with paganism

If we ignore every single Bible detail in the following post - we could imagine some scenario where scripture is made to condemn scripture



But as noted above - that would turn Rom 14 on its head not just turning Gal 4 on its head.

????????

 

[BobRyan]

????????

read the details in the post -- they are helpful

 

[Sesame Seed]

"A seventh day is the Sabbath"?
"Your seventh day is the Sabbath"?
"Pick a day in seven to be your Sabbath"??

I don't see any of those in the Bible, what other book do you have for that?

But "Tomorrow IS the Sabbath" Ex 16 -- is in the Bible
"The seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD" - Ex 20:8-11 is in the Bible

Manna fell on every day of the week except for THE Sabbath for 40 years.
Act 18:4 Paul was preaching the Gospel "every Sabbath" to Jews and gentiles in the Synagogue --

By contrast - Jesus was resurrected on the "first day of the week" and almost all churches today attend services on Sunday's as a reminder of the first day of the week - on which Christ was resurrected.

Where does it say Sunday specifically? We on roman Georgian calender today and it was the Romans that crucified jesus? You ain't going "hell" either way because god is in the heart (love) and I love you and all Christians alive and let's rejoice the wholeness and compassion it open our minds up too. It ain't a [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]ing game of who's right else we are in danger of same mistakes of those who put mosiac law above God's love

 

[Soyeong]

Where does it say Sunday specifically? We on roman Georgian calender today and it was the Romans that crucified jesus? You ain't going "hell" either way because god is in the heart (love) and I love you and all Christians alive and let's rejoice the wholeness and compassion it open our minds up too. It ain't a [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]ing game of who's right else we are in danger of same mistakes of those who put mosiac law above God's love

In Matthew 22:36-40, Jesus summarized the Mosaic Law as being about how to love God and our neighbor, so it is His instructions for how to love, and it is contradictory to suggest that we can put those instructions above God's love.

 

[BeyondET]

Hello all you saints,

I have been away for a while, and i am back with a quandary.

I am currently employed as a care worker, and this means that i am almost always working on a Sunday.

I have been doing this job for around one year now, and have never had any conscionable objections to working on a Sunday and not attending church as i beleived that i could choose a day in the week as a sabbath (where i did not go to church, though). I also have been able to attend a church service on a Wednesday often.

However, i came across this verse:

“There are six days when you may work, but the seventh day is a day of sabbath rest, a day of sacred assembly. You are not to do any work; wherever you live, it is a sabbath to the LORD.”

Leviticus 23:3.

So i am now wondering if i have been sinning all this time, and if i need to change my work situation so that i can live in accordance with this verse.

I am in the process of starting a Sunday evening service at my church and my employers have agreed to give me every Sunday evening off; however, i would be working every Sunday morning, therefore disqualifying it as a sabbath day for me.

Do you think it would be okay to switch my sabbath day to a Wednesday (where i would attend the weekday service at my church), and i would inform my employers that i cannot work Wednesdays.

Or do you think that it needs to be the same day that the majority of the church gather together?

P.s. i am aware that the jewish sabbath day was not Sunday- but an interesting point as to why it has been changed, and if God is okay with this and if so why.

Thanks a lot,

James.

If you start counting on Wednesday then the following Tuesday would be the seventh.

levi 23:3 nothing is mentioned about a name of a day to start counting.

In the NT mentions some honor a Sabbath on a certain day and others on another day. It's not that important on which day to rest just don't work 7 days a week all the time.

 

[BobRyan]

Where does it say Sunday specifically?

It says Christ was resurrected on weekday 1 and all Christians know this is Sunday --- so some of them attend services on that day.
All Jews know that Saturday is the seventh day - so this agrees with the Christian understanding that Sunday is the first day of the week.

Science tells us the days of the week at the time of Christ - and which day the Jews were keeping as the seventh day - so that is how we know about Sunday as week day 1.

We on roman Georgian calender today

Julian calendar conversion to Gregorian calendar etc - all of it is mapped quite well in the science we have currently.

 

[BobRyan]

In Matthew 22:36-40, Jesus summarized the Mosaic Law

Jesus said that the rock solid foundation "for all the Law AND the prophets" are these two Mosaic Laws
"Love God with all your heart" Deut 6:5
"Love your neighbor as yourself" Lev 19:18

And the Jews agreed with Christ. Even though they were not Christians and had no incentive to agree - this was common understanding among the Jews at that time.

Jesus does not say that all scripture (all the Law and the prophets) are deleted by those two commands of Moses - but rather are established and firmly founded on them.

 

[Soyeong]

If you start counting on Wednesday then the following Tuesday would be the seventh.

levi 23:3 nothing is mentioned about a name of a day to start counting.

The Sabbath is a memorial of when God rested after Creation, not a memorial of whenever someone feels like starting to count. The Israelites received a double portion of manna for the 7th day for 40 years in the wilderness, so they need on which day God rested, and they have been keeping it ever since. Furthermore, they kept it together as a community and there no evidence anywhere in the Bible that God permitted the disunity of everyone being free to pick when to start counting.

In the NT mentions some honor a Sabbath on a certain day and others on another day. It's not that important on which day to rest just don't work 7 days a week all the time.

You are referencing Romans 14, however, the Sabbath is not mentioned once in that chapter precisely because it had nothing to do with the topic that Paul was discussing.

 

[BeyondET]

The Sabbath is a memorial of when God rested after Creation, not a memorial of whenever someone feels like starting to count. The Israelites received a double portion of manna for the 7th day for 40 years in the wilderness, so they need on which day God rested, and they have been keeping it ever since. Furthermore, they kept it together as a community and there no evidence anywhere in the Bible that God permitted the disunity of everyone being free to pick when to start counting.


You are referencing Romans 14, however, the Sabbath is not mentioned once in that chapter precisely because it had nothing to do with the topic that Paul was discussing.

People do work the whole weekend a day off might be in the middle of the week if thats the day to rest and reflect on why God rested theres no harm. some jewish people do continue with the Hebrew calendar, It has leap years too.

Next year is a leap on the greg calendar. Over 40 years the added 10 days shuffles things anyhow on a calendar. Earths rotations isn't perfect and other things that cause fluctuations and calendars need adjusting to keep it unison with seasons and other things.

I was referring to something along these lines.

Colossians 2:16
Therefore let no one judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a feast, a New Moon, or a Sabbath

 

[Freth]

People do work the whole weekend a day off might be in the middle of the week if thats the day to rest and reflect on why God rested theres no harm. some jewish people do continue with the Hebrew calendar, It has leap years too.

Next year is a leap on the greg calendar. Over 40 years the added 10 days shuffles things anyhow on a calendar. Earths rotations isn't perfect and other things that cause fluctuations and calendars need adjusting to keep it unison with seasons and other things.

I was referring to something along these lines.

Colossians 2:16
Therefore let no one judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a feast, a New Moon, or a Sabbath

Which are a shadow of things to come...

Colossians 2:14-17 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it. Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Hebrews 10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.

• The context of Colossians 2:16 is the handwriting of ordinances (blotted out, a shadow of things to come).
• Food and drink is clearly pointing to festivals, which were called "sabbath days" (all pointing to Jesus; shadow), but were not the seventh day Sabbath, which is perpetual and was set at creation, thus it predates any shadow.
• The apostles kept the Sabbath post-crucifixion. If suddenly the Sabbath could be observed on any day, surely they would have noted it in scripture.
• Jesus made it a point to teach the Sabbath (on the Sabbath day, while observing it; Matthew 12, Luke 4:16). If we could pick any day, Jesus would not have observed the seventh day throughout His life as an example for us, and taught it as part of His ministry.
• The seventh day Sabbath commandment points back to creation (read the commandment), not forward to Jesus, therefore, it cannot be considered handwriting of ordinances or sacrificial law, which is the context of Colossians 2:16, as Paul clearly shows in Hebrews 10.

 

[Soyeong]

People do work the whole weekend a day off might be in the middle of the week if thats the day to rest and reflect on why God rested theres no harm. some jewish people do continue with the Hebrew calendar, It has leap years too.

Next year is a leap on the greg calendar. Over 40 years the added 10 days shuffles things anyhow on a calendar. Earths rotations isn't perfect and other things that cause fluctuations and calendars need adjusting to keep it unison with seasons and other things.

Again, when the 7th is is based on when God rested after Creation, not on when people feel like starting to count. Different calendars organize the months differently, but counting off every 7th day since Creation is the same regardless of which calendar system is being used.

I was referring to something along these lines.

Colossians 2:16
Therefore let no one judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a feast, a New Moon, or a Sabbath

In Acts 17:11, the Bereans were praised because they diligently tested everything that Paul said against OT Scripture to see if what he said was true, so Paul should not be interpreted as saying things that they would have outright rejected. For example, in Deuteronomy 4:2, it prohibits adding to or subtracting from God's law, and in Deuteronomy 13:4-5, the way that God instructed His people to determine that someone was a false prophet who was not speaking for Him was if they taught against obeying His law, so if that had been what Paul was doing in Colossians 2:16, then according to God, we should disregard what Paul said as being the words of a false prophet. So if you affirm that Paul is a servant of God who is speaking for Him and you interpret what he said as speaking against following what God has commanded as if he were not a servant of God, then you should be quicker to think that you must have misinterpreted what he said than to think that your interpretation is correct.

In regard to Colossians 2:16, it is ambiguous in itself whether Paul was saying not to let anyone judge them for obeying what God has commanded or for not obeying what God has commanded. In other words, it is possible that they were not doing what God has commanded, they were being judged by Jews for not doing that, and Paul was saying not to listen to them, or it is possible that they were obeying what God has commanded, they were being judged by pagans because they were doing that, and Paul was encouraging them not to let anyone judge them and keep them from obeying God. In Colossians 2:20-23, they were being judged by those teaching human precepts, self-made religion, asceticism, and severity to the body, so they were being judged by pagans, which means that they were being judged because they were obeying what God has commanded and Paul was encouraging them not to listen to them.

 

[Soyeong]

Which are a shadow of things to come...

• The context of Colossians 2:16 is the handwriting of ordinances (blotted out, a shadow of things to come).
• Food and drink is clearly pointing to festivals, which were called "sabbath days" (all pointing to Jesus; shadow), but were not the seventh day Sabbath, which is perpetual and was set at creation, thus it predates any shadow.
• The apostles kept the Sabbath post-crucifixion. If suddenly the Sabbath could be observed on any day, surely they would have noted it in scripture.
• Jesus made it a point to teach the Sabbath (on the Sabbath day, while observing it; Matthew 12, Luke 4:16). If we could pick any day, Jesus would not have observed the seventh day throughout His life as an example for us, and taught it as part of His ministry.
• The seventh day Sabbath commandment points back to creation (read the commandment), not forward to Jesus, therefore, it cannot be considered handwriting of ordinances or sacrificial law, which is the context of Colossians 2:16, as Paul clearly shows in Hebrews 10.

Jesus died to pay the penalty for our sins, so the handwriting or ordinances that are against us does not refer to any of God's laws, especially because God's law is not against us, but was given for our own good (Deuteronomy 6:24, 10:12-13), but rather it refers to list of the sins that we have committed that was nailed to Christ's cross instead so that he died in our place. The Greek word "dogma" is used elsewhere in the Bible to refer to the decrees of Caesar (Luke 2:1, Acts 17:7) or to the Jerusalem Council (Acts 16:4), so its use in Colossians 2:14 does not refer to the Law of God.

God's holy days are all important foreshadows that testify about what is to come, including the Sabbath, which testifies about entering into God's eternal rest. As followers of God, we should live in a way that testifies about the truth of what is to come rather than a way that denies the truth of what is to come, so by saying that God's holy days are foreshadows of what is to come, Paul was emphasizing their importance and why we shouldn't let anyone judge us for keeping them. For example, in 1 Corinthians 5:6-8, Paul spoke in regard to how Passover foreshadowed Christ by drawing the connection of him being our Passover Lamb, however, instead of saying that we should no longer observe Passover, he concluded by saying that we should therefore continue to keep it. All of God's righteous laws are eternal (Psalms 119:160), so none of them predate others.

 

[BeyondET]

Which are a shadow of things to come...

• The context of Colossians 2:16 is the handwriting of ordinances (blotted out, a shadow of things to come).
• Food and drink is clearly pointing to festivals, which were called "sabbath days" (all pointing to Jesus; shadow), but were not the seventh day Sabbath, which is perpetual and was set at creation, thus it predates any shadow.
• The apostles kept the Sabbath post-crucifixion. If suddenly the Sabbath could be observed on any day, surely they would have noted it in scripture.
• Jesus made it a point to teach the Sabbath (on the Sabbath day, while observing it; Matthew 12, Luke 4:16). If we could pick any day, Jesus would not have observed the seventh day throughout His life as an example for us, and taught it as part of His ministry.
• The seventh day Sabbath commandment points back to creation (read the commandment), not forward to Jesus, therefore, it cannot be considered handwriting of ordinances or sacrificial law, which is the context of Colossians 2:16, as Paul clearly shows in Hebrews 10.

Then you become a stumbling block for the weak who can't make it on the seventh day

 

[BeyondET]

Again, when the 7th is is based on when God rested after Creation, not on when people feel like starting to count. Different calendars organize the months differently, but counting off every 7th day since Creation is the same regardless of which calendar system is being used.



In Acts 17:11, the Bereans were praised because they diligently tested everything that Paul said against OT Scripture to see if what he said was true, so Paul should not be interpreted as saying things that they would have outright rejected. For example, in Deuteronomy 4:2, it prohibits adding to or subtracting from God's law, and in Deuteronomy 13:4-5, the way that God instructed His people to determine that someone was a false prophet who was not speaking for Him was if they taught against obeying His law, so if that had been what Paul was doing in Colossians 2:16, then according to God, we should disregard what Paul said as being the words of a false prophet. So if you affirm that Paul is a servant of God who is speaking for Him and you interpret what he said as speaking against following what God has commanded as if he were not a servant of God, then you should be quicker to think that you must have misinterpreted what he said than to think that your interpretation is correct.

In regard to Colossians 2:16, it is ambiguous in itself whether Paul was saying not to let anyone judge them for obeying what God has commanded or for not obeying what God has commanded. In other words, it is possible that they were not doing what God has commanded, they were being judged by Jews for not doing that, and Paul was saying not to listen to them, or it is possible that they were obeying what God has commanded, they were being judged by pagans because they were doing that, and Paul was encouraging them not to let anyone judge them and keep them from obeying God. In Colossians 2:20-23, they were being judged by those teaching human precepts, self-made religion, asceticism, and severity to the body, so they were being judged by pagans, which means that they were being judged because they were obeying what God has commanded and Paul was encouraging them not to listen to them.

Where in the creation account the first day fell on a sunday. The sabbath is just that rest not what day it falls on.

 

[Soyeong]

Where in the creation account the first day fell on a sunday. The sabbath is just that rest not what day it falls on.

Again, the Israelites received a double portion of manna for the 7th day for 40 years in the wilderness, so they knew on which day God rested, and they have been keeping it ever since, so we can look at the period of time that they have been keeping at the the 7th day in order see what period of time it corresponds to on the Gregorian calendar. And again, there is nothing in the Bible to suggests that it doesn't matter what day to rest or that people were free to rest on whichever day that they wanted. God could have commanded to rest once every week, but He did not.

 

[BeyondET]

Again, the Israelites received a double portion of manna for the 7th day for 40 years in the wilderness, so they knew on which day God rested, and they have been keeping it ever since, so we can look at the period of time that they have been keeping at the the 7th day in order see what period of time it corresponds to on the Gregorian calendar. And again, there is nothing in the Bible to suggests that it doesn't matter what day to rest or that people were free to rest on whichever day that they wanted. God could have commanded to rest once every week, but He did not.

Thats a stumbling block in the NT. The old testament yes it was a requirement to rest and to work 6 days in a row.

The prophet Anna never worked a day in her life and worshipped in the temple everyday.

 

[Soyeong]

Thats a stumbling block in the NT. The old testament yes it was a requirement to rest and to work 6 days in a row.

The prophet Anna never worked a day in her life and worshipped in the temple everyday.

In Matthew 4:17-23, Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, and God's law is how his audience knew what sin is (Romans 3:20), so repenting from breaking it is an integral part of the Gospel message, which includes repenting from breaking the Sabbath. Likewise, Jesus set a sinless example of how to walk in obedience to God's law, including keeping the Sabbath holy, an as his followers, we are told to follow his example (1 Peter 2:21-22) and that those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way he walked (1 John 2:6). So Jesus taught his followers to keep the Sabbath holy both by word and by example.

Furthermore, in 1 Peter 1:16, we are told to have be holy for God is holy, which is a quote from Leviticus where God was giving instructions for how to do that, which includes keeping God's Sabbaths holy (Leviticus 19:2-3).

In Acts 17:11, the Bereans were praised because they diligently tested everything that Paul said to see if what he said was true, so what was taught in the NT is not contrary to what was taught in the OT, but rather agreement with OT is the standard by which we know that was is taught in the NT is true. In addition, in Jeremiah 31:33, the New Covenant still involve following God's law.

 

[BeyondET]

In Matthew 4:17-23, Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, and God's law is how his audience knew what sin is (Romans 3:20), so repenting from breaking it is an integral part of the Gospel message, which includes repenting from breaking the Sabbath. Likewise, Jesus set a sinless example of how to walk in obedience to God's law, including keeping the Sabbath holy, an as his followers, we are told to follow his example (1 Peter 2:21-22) and that those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way he walked (1 John 2:6). So Jesus taught his followers to keep the Sabbath holy both by word and by example.

Furthermore, in 1 Peter 1:16, we are told to have be holy for God is holy, which is a quote from Leviticus where God was giving instructions for how to do that, which includes keeping God's Sabbaths holy (Leviticus 19:2-3).

In Acts 17:11, the Bereans were praised because they diligently tested everything that Paul said to see if what he said was true, so what was taught in the NT is not contrary to what was taught in the OT, but rather agreement with OT is the standard by which we know that was is taught in the NT is true. In addition, in Jeremiah 31:33, the New Covenant still involve following God's law.

I agree working seven days a week would be breaking the Sabbath. But endless repenting isn't the answer either.

Jesus didn't break any of the old testament laws and only Jesus could be that example. People cannot walk sinless, It's finished.

Do you think working 6 days is a requirement as well? Clearly scripture states to work 6 days.

If someone only works 5 days a week isn't that breaking the commandment also?