Noah's Flood

[Brightmoon]

I’m not sure where that photo was taken but the sediments were down laid flat in relatively still water . Not a fountains of the deep and raging Flood. If you want to see what rapid erosion looks like google the channeled scablands. That was caused by enormous but not global , floods

 

[Brightmoon]

The layers presented in the photo were layed down in the flood of Noah's time.

If it took millions of years to slowly seposit the sediment the place where the different sediment contacted each other would not be that smooth. This erosion you speak of would have created valleys and other features created by years of weathering.


Secondly bioturbation would have severly disturbed and mixed the meeting points of the slowly depositing sediment.....

. Bioturbation might have mixed up the layers if they had been deposited soon after each other . But the fact that they are made of different minerals with different chemicals proportions means that they weren’t laid down at the same time. 2 With varves which are laid down yearly, biotubation doesn’t mix the layers together all the time . But you do find evidence of burrows and shells and plants in the layers from being slowly buried after death .

as you can see that second picture of varve layers has 1 layer that was disturbed by an earthquake . There are your Kevin Helmholtz recumbent folds in soft sediment . You can see the seasonal variation in each layer ( red lines) from leaves and other detritus. Which is why they know that this is yearly.

When folds happen in solid rock they’re being pushed from plate tectonics or being pushed up while being heated from magma which also tends to metamorphose them

 

[-57]

. Bioturbation might have mixed up the layers if they had been deposited soon after each other . But the fact that they are made of different minerals with different chemicals proportions means that they weren’t laid down at the same time. 2 With varves which are laid down yearly, biotubation doesn’t mix the layers together all the time . But you do find evidence of burrows and shells and plants in the layers from being slowly buried after death .

as you can see that second picture of varve layers has 1 layer that was disturbed by an earthquake . There are your Kevin Helmholtz recumbent folds in soft sediment . You can see the seasonal variation in each layer ( red lines) from leaves and other detritus. Which is why they know that this is yearly.

When folds happen in solid rock they’re being pushed from plate tectonics or being pushed up while being heated from magma which also tends to metamorphose them

Once again you demonstrate rapid sedimentation that could have been deposited in numerous ways.

 

[-57]

I’m not sure where that photo was taken but the sediments were down laid flat in relatively still water . Not a fountains of the deep and raging Flood. If you want to see what rapid erosion looks like google the channeled scablands. That was caused by enormous but not global , floods

Face palm....no one but you skeptics claim the whole flood at the entire time was disturbed by the fountains of the deep and raging waters. Your cement mixer approach is now what happened all over the globe.

 

[Quartermaine]

Once again you demonstrate rapid sedimentation that could have been deposited in numerous ways.

the problem with this is that there are limits to water's total particulate suspension. to hold enough particulate material to form the grand canyon the supposed flood waters would have to be several hundred miles deep

 

[-57]

the problem with this is that there are limits to water's total particulate suspension. to hold enough particulate material to form the grand canyon the supposed flood waters would have to be several hundred miles deep

That's not the theory on how the sediment was deposited. Did you know some of the sandstone deposits cover many states?

 

[Quartermaine]

That's not the theory on how the sediment was deposited. Did you know some of the sandstone deposits cover many states?

theory is based on observation not fantasy

 

[-57]

theory is based on observation not fantasy

Let me ask you again...Did you know some of the sandstone deposits cover many states?

That question was based upon observation of the deposited sediment.

 

[Quartermaine]

Let me ask you again...Did you know some of the sandstone deposits cover many states?

That question was based upon observation of the deposited sediment.

and what has that got to do with the nonsense idea that it and hundreds of other of layers were somehow deposited in mere days?

 

[-57]

and what has that got to do with the nonsense idea that it and hundreds of other of layers were somehow deposited in mere days?

It demonstrates a flood. Massive water movement. Not large amounts of time. Slow deposition of the sedement would not create such features.

 

[Quartermaine]

It demonstrates a flood. Massive water movement. Not large amounts of time. Slow deposition of the sedement would not create such features.

and to hold enough particulate matter to lay down such a deposit in your short amount to time, the "flood waters" would have to be miles deep

 

[-57]

and to hold enough particulate matter to lay down such a deposit in your short amount to time, the "flood waters" would have to be miles deep

They say if you could smooth out the earth with no mountains and valleys the water would stand 2 miles above the earth.

 

[Quartermaine]

They say if you could smooth out the earth with no mountains and valleys the water would stand 2 miles above the earth.

nope about 2000 meters

 

[Brightmoon]

Those states covered in thick sandstone layers were part of the Western Interior Sea . The oceans of Kansas. The western side of the American plate somehow got pulled down which allowed salt water to cover those states for millions of years. Mosasaurs and plesiosaurs lived in those waters, thats why we find their fossils there. Local plate tectonics not a global flood !

 

[Childofgodharrison]

Christians who take every part of the bible literally, the flood according to the bible happened a little over 4000 years ago. A global flood like that 20 feet over the tallest mountain. Your water 4 miles deep. A flood like that would have ripped the earth to pieces and flattened every thing. The oldest man made structure go back 10's of thousands of years none of them would have survived the flood. Geology, biology, physics, and astronomy and carbon dating (Advancing technology has allowed radiocarbon dating to become accurate to within just a few decades in many cases). The bible is the history and myths of the Jewish people. That does not mean god is not real but it does mean, the earth is not flat, diseases were caused by germs not evil spirits, the earth is not the center of the universe. The people of the ancient world believed what they believed out of ignorance. Now as for a massive destructive flood like the Black sea flood, that is probably the truth of the flood that every culture on the planet has a story for. But as for the bibles version of the flood it did not happen.

I believe that the flood did happen. I know that God is real and that Jesus was born of a virgin and was crucified and raised again. I know that the devil is real. I have witnessed unclean spirit activity in a person. So I know that the bible is real. I do believe that the earth is flat with a firmament over it. The earth is full of unclean spirits coming in and out from the 2cnd heaven. Humans ether follow the Holy Spirit or an unclean spirit. The demons use humans as a host to steal, kill and destroy humans because they hate humans.

 

[Brightmoon]

Unclean spirits are not under the preview of science. Science only deals with natural phenomena. This is supernatural stuff and science can’t answer those questions and honestly has nothing to say about these supernatural things . You need to get a theologian for that. My issue in dealing with the so called evolution/ old earth /no Flood debate is that we need to understand natural phenomena accurately just to be able to protect our own lives . Accurate geology saved lives when Mt St. Helens erupted . Common descent is used in medical research. Anyone who’s had open heart surgery had better thank the dogs that made that possible. Creationism would rather you believe stories that aren’t true and cost you your lives. There really isn’t a debate about evolution or other confirmed natural phenomena, it’s just that creationists don’t like them and continually complain about them.

 

[coffee4u]

Christians who take every part of the bible literally, the flood according to the bible happened a little over 4000 years ago. A global flood like that 20 feet over the tallest mountain. Your water 4 miles deep. A flood like that would have ripped the earth to pieces and flattened every thing. The oldest man made structure go back 10's of thousands of years none of them would have survived the flood. Geology, biology, physics, and astronomy and carbon dating (Advancing technology has allowed radiocarbon dating to become accurate to within just a few decades in many cases). The bible is the history and myths of the Jewish people. That does not mean god is not real but it does mean, the earth is not flat, diseases were caused by germs not evil spirits, the earth is not the center of the universe. The people of the ancient world believed what they believed out of ignorance. Now as for a massive destructive flood like the Black sea flood, that is probably the truth of the flood that every culture on the planet has a story for. But as for the bibles version of the flood it did not happen.

The Bible does not give a definitive answer to when the flood happened.

20 The waters rose and covered the mountains to a depth of more than fifteen cubits.
15 cubits is not 4 miles. The Hebrew cubit was two measuremnts, the short at 17.5 (44.5cm) and the long at 20.4 (51.8) The water depth was in many feet, not miles.
The ark itself was 300 cubits so unless you are sugesting the ark itself was 80 miles, that is way off.

The flood made moutains rise and valleys sink. It caused the highest mountains to be formed.
Psalm 104:8
they flowed over the mountains, they went down into the valleys, to the place you assigned for them.

Radiocarbon dating like all tests assumes things. Cosmic rays in the upper atmosphere are constantly converting the isotope nitrogen-14 into carbon-14, but the rate was different before the flood. The world then was surounded by a thick water vapour canopy. How things react now was not how they reacted then. Saying it has always been this rate since the beginning of time is not something that can be prooved, it's an assumption.

The Bible is not myths of the Jewish people, it is God's breathed word to us.

2 Timothy 3:16-17

16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.
All scripture, not just some.

The Bible does not teach that the earth is flat or that diseases were caused by evil spirits. Conditions certainly can be caused by demons, but that has nothing to do with disease caused by germs. Why do you think God told people to quarantine and wash? For evil spirits? No, for contagious diseases or conditions if not handled with good hygiene practices could bring about disease.

If you are going to argue against the Bible you should at least know what is says first.

 

[Brightmoon]

A thick water vapor canopy would prevent sunlight from reaching the ground . Everyone has been in one of those thunderstorms where the sky gets really really dark . A thicker cloud layer would block all sunlight aside from the fact that it would make the air unbreathable due to too much water vapor. Since water vapor is a greenhouse gas it would also be very hot . Hot enough to melt lead at least . That water canopy idea fails in a lot of ways more than I’ve mentioned here

 

[coffee4u]

A thick water vapor canopy would prevent sunlight from reaching the ground . Everyone has been in one of those thunderstorms where the sky gets really really dark . A thicker cloud layer would block all sunlight aside from the fact that it would make the air unbreathable due to too much water vapor. Since water vapor is a greenhouse gas it would also be very hot . Hot enough to melt lead at least . That water canopy idea fails in a lot of ways more than I’ve mentioned here

And as has been said before it was obviously not so thick as to do that, it was a delicate balance the same way gravity is a balance. Too little or too much gravity would have a catastrophic effect, in the same way God would know exactly how thick to make the vapour canopy.

 

[Brightmoon]

That much water would cause the atmospheric pressure to rise to the level that both O2 and N2 in the atmosphere would become toxic . No matter how you spin that story IT DOESN’T WORK! Whether you start with the genetic bottleneck the animals go through, the lack of ability for 8 humans to take care of just the large herbivores let alone the other species, The lack of space for food , and ammonia stench of urine soaked wood in a boat with one window, or the water itself , NOTHING about that story is even remotely plausible