Noah's Flood

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Christians who take every part of the bible literally, the flood according to the bible happened a little over 4000 years ago. A global flood like that 20 feet over the tallest mountain. Your water 4 miles deep. A flood like that would have ripped the earth to pieces and flattened every thing. The oldest man made structure go back 10's of thousands of years none of them would have survived the flood. Geology, biology, physics, and astronomy and carbon dating (Advancing technology has allowed radiocarbon dating to become accurate to within just a few decades in many cases). The bible is the history and myths of the Jewish people. That does not mean god is not real but it does mean, the earth is not flat, diseases were caused by germs not evil spirits, the earth is not the center of the universe. The people of the ancient world believed what they believed out of ignorance. Now as for a massive destructive flood like the Black sea flood, that is probably the truth of the flood that every culture on the planet has a story for. But as for the bibles version of the flood it did not happen.
 
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Christians who take every part of the bible literally, the flood according to the bible happened a little over 4000 years ago. A global flood like that 20 feet over the tallest mountain. Your water 4 miles deep. A flood like that would have ripped the earth to pieces and flattened every thing. The oldest man made structure go back 10's of thousands of years none of them would have survived the flood. Geology, biology, physics, and astronomy and carbon dating (Advancing technology has allowed radiocarbon dating to become accurate to within just a few decades in many cases). The bible is the history and myths of the Jewish people. That does not mean god is not real but it does mean, the earth is not flat, diseases were caused by germs not evil spirits, the earth is not the center of the universe. The people of the ancient world believed what they believed out of ignorance. Now as for a massive destructive flood like the Black sea flood, that is probably the truth of the flood that every culture on the planet has a story for. But as for the bibles version of the flood it did not happen.

You are partially correct. We find in Psalms 104:6 the waters were indeed above the mountains, but then the next three verses we find He then caused the mountains to rise and valleys to sink, causing the waters to recede into their own places.

We aren't given the height of the preflood mountains. And given the height of what can see now that He calls mountains (Olives, Sinai, Gerizim, Ebal, etc...), they wouldn't have to be all that high.
 
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Friedrich Rubinstein

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Let's see what the geologists say.
Dr. A. Snelling is geologist, research scientist and technical editor who studied at the University of New South Wales in Sydney. He writes:
"As a geologist I am also interested in the biblical account of earth history, particularly the record of the year-long global catastrophic Flood in the days of Noah that must have totally reshaped the entire surface of the globe. In fact, based upon the biblical description of the Flood event, it is logical to predict that it would leave behind billions of dead animals and plants buried in sediments eroded and deposited by the moving flood waters, that would all end up being fossils in rock layers laid down by water all over the globe. And that's exactly what we find - layers of water-deposited sedimentary rocks containing fossils all over the earth.
There is impressive evidence that fossil deposits and rock strata were formed catastrophically. There are also many indications that there were not millions of years, or even thousands, between various rock units. The rock sequence in the Grand Canyon is a case in point. Not only can it be shown that each of the rock units exposed in the walls of the canyon must have formed very rapidly under catastrophic watery conditions, but there are not significant time gaps between the various rock layers. Thus, the total time involved to put in place some 4,000 feet (1,200 meters) thickness of rock strata is well within the time constraints the Bible stipulates for the flood event.

What is also spectacular about the Grand Canyon area in northern Arizona is the scale and magnitude of the rock units and the awesomeness of the canyon itself. One can physically walk up and down the sequence of rock units that go back before the Flood, and then right through the Flood event up until post-Flood times. While the sequence is not complete, there are few places where such a complete sequence is so fully exposed and so much evidence for the Flood and its catastrophic nature.
No geologist denies that the oceans once covered the land, since rocks containing marine fossils may be found at elevations above sea level today anywhere from one to five miles. That the ocean waters should have covered the land is exactly what one would expect to happen during a global flood, while earth movements concurrent with the retreating flood waters would be expected to leave strata with marine fossils now perched high and dry at considerable elevations, just as we observe, for example, in the Himalayas.
In Australia, without doubt, one of the most impressive areas demonstrating catastrophic deposition during the Flood is Ayers Rock (or Uluru). The scale of the sandstone beds that have been upturned to form the rock gives clear testimony to the scale of deposition in the Flood. The mineral grains making up the sandstone are a witness to the cataclysmic speed of the deposition process and the young age of this awesome desert landform."

Whoever claims that the Flood did not happen as described in the Bible should research a bit first; the evidence is overwhelming.

 
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Job 33:6

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Let's see what the geologists say.
Dr. A. Snelling is geologist, research scientist and technical editor who studied at the University of New South Wales in Sydney. He writes:
"As a geologist I am also interested in the biblical account of earth history, particularly the record of the year-long global catastrophic Flood in the days of Noah that must have totally reshaped the entire surface of the globe. In fact, based upon the biblical description of the Flood event, it is logical to predict that it would leave behind billions of dead animals and plants buried in sediments eroded and deposited by the moving flood waters, that would all end up being fossils in rock layers laid down by water all over the globe. And that's exactly what we find - layers of water-deposited sedimentary rocks containing fossils all over the earth.
There is impressive evidence that fossil deposits and rock strata were formed catastrophically. There are also many indications that there were not millions of years, or even thousands, between various rock units. The rock sequence in the Grand Canyon is a case in point. Not only can it be shown that each of the rock units exposed in the walls of the canyon must have formed very rapidly under catastrophic watery conditions, but there are not significant time gaps between the various rock layers. Thus, the total time involved to put in place some 4,000 feet (1,200 meters) thickness of rock strata is well within the time constraints the Bible stipulates for the flood event.

What is also spectacular about the Grand Canyon area in northern Arizona is the scale and magnitude of the rock units and the awesomeness of the canyon itself. One can physically walk up and down the sequence of rock units that go back before the Flood, and then right through the Flood event up until post-Flood times. While the sequence is not complete, there are few places where such a complete sequence is so fully exposed and so much evidence for the Flood and its catastrophic nature.
No geologist denies that the oceans once covered the land, since rocks containing marine fossils may be found at elevations above sea level today anywhere from one to five miles. That the ocean waters should have covered the land is exactly what one would expect to happen during a global flood, while earth movements concurrent with the retreating flood waters would be expected to leave strata with marine fossils now perched high and dry at considerable elevations, just as we observe, for example, in the Himalayas.
In Australia, without doubt, one of the most impressive areas demonstrating catastrophic deposition during the Flood is Ayers Rock (or Uluru). The scale of the sandstone beds that have been upturned to form the rock gives clear testimony to the scale of deposition in the Flood. The mineral grains making up the sandstone are a witness to the cataclysmic speed of the deposition process and the young age of this awesome desert landform."

Whoever claims that the Flood did not happen as described in the Bible should research a bit first; the evidence is overwhelming.


As a Christian geologist myself, I'll just point out that Andrew Snelling is unpublished in his research (anything with respect to a global flood), and with good reason (some of his ideas are really quite ridiculous when we examine their fine print). His ideas don't add up under scrutiny. And I'd be happy to give examples.
 
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Job 33:6

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Here is a fantastic read, complements of Christian Forums, where I take a closer look at claims of creation geologist Steve Austin. Of the hundreds of thousands of geologists around the world, those are younger creation ministries number between perhaps 3 to 5. Their ideas and flaws overlap quite often and if anyone is truly interested in the topic, it is worth the read.

The discussion is quite long as we navigate through research papers and ideas. We really hashed it out, but in the end, it became quite apparent that young Creationist and flood geologists ideas, consistently don't add up.

Hydroplate Theory vs Catastrophic tectonics

Hydroplate Theory vs Catastrophic tectonics
 
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Quartermaine

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Let's see what the geologists say.
Dr. A. Snelling is geologist, research scientist and technical editor who studied at the University of New South Wales in Sydney. He writes:
"As a geologist I am also interested in the biblical account of earth history, particularly the record of the year-long global catastrophic Flood in the days of Noah that must have totally reshaped the entire surface of the globe. In fact, based upon the biblical description of the Flood event, it is logical to predict that it would leave behind billions of dead animals and plants buried in sediments eroded and deposited by the moving flood waters, that would all end up being fossils in rock layers laid down by water all over the globe. And that's exactly what we find - layers of water-deposited sedimentary rocks containing fossils all over the earth.
except for all the fossils that aren't in water deposited rocks like the famous Laetoli footprints.
trail-of-laetoli-footprints-john-reader.jpg


or this big fella found in volcanic ash
Largest%2BSpider%2BFossil%2BFound%2Bin%2BVolcanic%2BAsh%2B%25281%2529.jpg


or this nest of baby dinosaurs that were burred in a sandstorm
4Gsa3z4a8eiJQtrb4asu9o-650-80.jpg.webp


I am reminded of reading some years ago about a creation "scientist" that was experimenting with plastic toy dinosaurs and a children's wading pool trying to show why dinosaur fossils only occurred further back in the geological record than say mastodons or humans. He would toss the toys into the kids pool to show that dinosaurs were more streamlined than humans or poodles so they sank deeper into the sediments deposited by Noah's flood.

There is impressive evidence that fossil deposits and rock strata were formed catastrophically.
and there is impressive evidence that fossil deposits and rock strata were not formed catastrophically

There are also many indications that there were not millions of years, or even thousands, between various rock units.
None of which can actually be shown

The rock sequence in the Grand Canyon is a case in point. Not only can it be shown that each of the rock units exposed in the walls of the canyon must have formed very rapidly under catastrophic watery conditions,
it doesn't show that at all

but there are not significant time gaps between the various rock layers. Thus, the total time involved to put in place some 4,000 feet (1,200 meters) thickness of rock strata is well within the time constraints the Bible stipulates for the flood event.
Um...no

pop-up-yardstick.jpg



What is also spectacular about the Grand Canyon area in northern Arizona is the scale and magnitude of the rock units and the awesomeness of the canyon itself. One can physically walk up and down the sequence of rock units that go back before the Flood, and then right through the Flood event up until post-Flood times. While the sequence is not complete, there are few places where such a complete sequence is so fully exposed and so much evidence for the Flood and its catastrophic nature.
If we want to say the canyon was carved out by flood waters in a sort period of time the it's simple math to show that in order to carve out the grand canyon in a matter of days the water woudl have to be moving at roughly the speed of sound for the entirety of those days but not moving at all right next to where the canyon formed. And at that speed hte water would have to be moving in a straight line....which explains why the grand canyon is perfectly straight....um....wait...never mind



No geologist denies that the oceans once covered the land,
multiple times

since rocks containing marine fossils may be found at elevations above sea level today anywhere from one to five miles. That the ocean waters should have covered the land is exactly what one would expect to happen during a global flood,
which time

while earth movements concurrent with the retreating flood waters would be expected to leave strata with marine fossils now perched high and dry at considerable elevations, just as we observe, for example, in the Himalayas.
actually that is evidence for plate tectonics

In Australia, without doubt, one of the most impressive areas demonstrating catastrophic deposition during the Flood is Ayers Rock (or Uluru). The scale of the sandstone beds that have been upturned to form the rock gives clear testimony to the scale of deposition in the Flood. The mineral grains making up the sandstone are a witness to the cataclysmic speed of the deposition process and the young age of this awesome desert landform."
except that the sandstone at Ayers ROck was formed by compression not sedimentation. You woudl thing a geologist woudl know that.

Whoever claims that the Flood did not happen as described in the Bible should research a bit first; the evidence is overwhelming.
I'm underwhelmed
 
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The Barbarian

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We aren't given the height of the preflood mountains. And given the height of what can see now that He calls mountains (Olives, Sinai, Gerizim, Ebal, etc...), they wouldn't have to be all that high.

Sounds like more post-hoc invention.
 
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Brightmoon

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Let me fix that radiodating thing. Carbon dating is only good for a maximum of 50,000 years . Theoretically 80,000 but practically 40,000 years . Radiodating includes a lot of other radioactive nuclides.

And Dr Snelling was a pet peeve of mine. He Reported an error bar result as a valid single date . Reporting a radiodating result of this-rock-is-less-than-2.3-million-years-old as this rock is exactly 2.3 million years old . ( I’m sorta paraphrasing) . The rock was 50 years old and was dated using a technique normally used on very, very, very ,old rocks . The lab told him that the rock was less than 2.3 million years old. Which was true, 50 is less than 2.3 million . The lab just couldn’t narrow it down any further because of the use of the wrong technique, which the creationists specifically requested.

It was just either ignorance or blatant dishonesty . If ignorance he needs to give back that PhD. If dishonesty he should be ashamed to lie like that
 
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SeventyOne

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Sounds like more post-hoc invention.

Which part do you have an issue with? God raising the mountains after the flood, or knowing that means they were lower before He raised them?
 
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Okay every part of this planet has been under water at one time or another. Teutonic plates, earth quakes, volcanoes, tsunamis reshape the earth constantly. Here is fact...one of the oldest human settlements is over 50 k years old...the flood would have wiped out. The pyramids already existed again the flood would have wiped them out. Its not a matter of gods existence which I believe its a matter of fact. And plenty of Christians Scientist agree...the ones that don't are quacks there work does not hold up under scrutiny
 
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Andy Stanley on why we shouldn't let scientific shortcomings turn us from Christ.

Dude Science does not mean god not exist...its does mean that much of the old testament has be debunked meaning the old testament is a book about the history of the Jewish people and there myths, its also book on how to have a relationship with god. Here is a fact...if you go by the bible the flood happend 4200 t o 4300 years ago. At the time Egypt was one of the ancient world powers the great pyramids existed...one of the oldest human settlements found was over 50 k years...the flood would have wiped all of it out that is a fact. Even if the pyramids were strong enough to survive such a flood there would be evidence of it. The truth is the old testament was written by a bunch Bronze Age tribesmen sitting in their tents and believe the earth is flat (false) the earth was the center of the universe(false), disease is caused by evil sprites ( false) Disease is cause germs. The Greek are not insulted by the fact that much of the history is filled with myth. Same as most every other culture but the Christians and Muslims I swear lol. There could be a line in the bible that says 1+1 is 8...but the answer is 2..but many bible literalist would argue it.
 
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Which part do you have an issue with? God raising the mountains after the flood, or knowing that means they were lower before He raised them?
. So where is the evidence for The molten surface the Bible’s version of a global flood would have caused ? Any version of a global flood would have left a lot of easily visible evidence . Including from heat hot enough to melt the surface and/or a global widespread sediment layer So where is it?
 
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SeventyOne

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. So where is the evidence for The molten surface the Bible’s version of a global flood would have caused ? Any version of a global flood would have left a lot of easily visible evidence . Including from heat hot enough to melt the surface and/or a global widespread sediment layer So where is it?

Sorry. I thought you had an issue with something specific I had stated, not just looking for a platform to rant. Carry on.
 
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Brightmoon

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That’s not evidence sweetie . Ill give you some . There’s evidence for the fact that Africa and Europe once bumped into The east coast of the USA.
1 they raised the Appalachian mountains
2 it happened a very long time ago because the Appalachians are worn down to almost being hills
3 the stress marks and metamorphic rocks from the extreme pressures and heat this caused are still there.
4 Florida’s Older geology has more in common with Africa’s than with the rest of America
5 we know continents move around
6 paleomagnetism tells us the former locations of continents

I’m quite sure a geologist could tell you a lot more than I can as geology isn’t my field.
 
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SeventyOne

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That’s not evidence sweetie .

Actually, it's all the evidence necessary. If current 'scientific thought' doesn't support it, then it is the knowledge of that 'science' which is still deficient. One day it may catch up.

You have the same issue the OP has, disbelief. You both need to be very careful. We will all stand before this God who has exalted both His word and His name above everything else (Psalms 138:2). If your view of the word of God isn't greater than your view of what men tell you, you need to repent and ask for true wisdom.
 
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The Barbarian

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Which part do you have an issue with? God raising the mountains after the flood,

Since there's neither evidence nor scriptural support for that, it's just an unsupported belief.

Mountains are raised in various ways, but we have no evidence whatever that God uses anything but natural means to do it.
 
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Dude Science does not mean god not exist...its does mean that much of the old testament has be debunked meaning the old testament is a book about the history of the Jewish people and there myths, its also book on how to have a relationship with god. Here is a fact...if you go by the bible the flood happend 4200 t o 4300 years ago. At the time Egypt was one of the ancient world powers the great pyramids existed...one of the oldest human settlements found was over 50 k years...the flood would have wiped all of it out that is a fact. Even if the pyramids were strong enough to survive such a flood there would be evidence of it. The truth is the old testament was written by a bunch Bronze Age tribesmen sitting in their tents and believe the earth is flat (false) the earth was the center of the universe(false), disease is caused by evil sprites ( false) Disease is cause germs. The Greek are not insulted by the fact that much of the history is filled with myth. Same as most every other culture but the Christians and Muslims I swear lol. There could be a line in the bible that says 1+1 is 8...but the answer is 2..but many bible literalist would argue it.

Check out the sermon, you might enjoy it.
 
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