No Time, No Age.

[MerlinJ]

I do not do papers on theories.

No, you self-publish books on Amazon in which you liken yourself to Einstein. I won't be buying it, but from what I could read of the introduction available in the preview...well, it's rare to see such a strong example of the Dunning-Kruger effect.

You're not a misunderstood genius. Get help. :s

 

[ScottA]

It certainly is impossible. You are a fallible human being as much as the rest of us. We can all try, and to some measure, succeed in seeing things from a different perspective. But are always going to be influenced by the complex set of assumptions and beliefs that our life's path has loaded us with. It is structurally not possible to "step outside yourself" and the world from an objective point of view. Nobody can do this.

You are under the wrong impression. I have not spoken from the grave. If I have Christ in me, it is no longer I who live, but Him who lives in me.

You have made the world out to be a Purgatory where the dead blab to the dead. That is not the way of Christ.

 

[ScottA]

Your post illustrates another commonly seen problem with the way at least some Christians express their views. Yes, the Scriptures do indeed tell us that followers of Jesus will be wrongfully condemned. But surely that does not mean that we are above error! You appear to, yet again, think you have a "get out jail free" card here - someone challenges your view and you simply state that the challenger is "persecuting the faithful". Well, sometimes believers need to be set straight and using the excuse that you are being "persecuted" to avoid actually dealing with clear objections to your position does not, I suggest, reflect well on the church.

You speak about people being hindered from entering the kingdom. How is providing clear, rational arguments hindering people? If we want to talk about what hinders entry in the kingdom, I propose that when atheists and agnostics see a Christian clearly evading their responsibility to actually defend their views from challenge, this sends the following clear message: the Christian has no defense to the challenge.

And that, of course, does not nudge people into the Kingdom.

You have it backwards, nor did you understand what I said.

I was not saying that the followers of Jesus who are condemned...but that the children of God have been the ones who condemn God...killed the prophets, etc.

How do you presume to be clear and rational, when you do not understand these things?

 

[ScottA]

You have it backwards, nor did you understand what I said.

I was not saying that the followers of Jesus who are condemned...but that the children of God have been the ones who condemn God...killed the prophets, etc.

How do you presume to be clear and rational, when you do not understand these things?

Christians do not need to argue with atheists, nor do we need to defend Christianity or God. The victory is won. It is finished. We are not here for that purpose at all, but to spread the good news that they too can be raised up above death and the world.

 

[expos4ever]

You are under the wrong impression. I have not spoken from the grave. If I have Christ in me, it is no longer I who live, but Him who lives in me.

That Biblical text that you quote is certainly not license to make the frankly outrageous claim that you somehow have the gift of being able to do what no other human being can do - disentangle yourself from your own set of assumptions and beliefs and stand objectively over creation to examine it from God's point of view (for those of us who believe in God).

A little humility please; your hubris here is almost comical. Look, you are no different than the rest of us; we all cannot step outside our necessarily subjective view of the world and see the world from some sort of privileged, even divine, "objective" perspective.

You have made the world out to be a Purgatory where the dead blab to the dead. That is not the way of Christ.

I know this is hopeless, but I have to ask: where, and please be specific have I made comments about "the dead". The way of Christ means many things, but one of them is to embrace the delusion that one somehow suddenly acquires the divine gift of seeing the world from a perspective other than a human one. Here is a quote that addresses the danger of pretension to the knowledge of the gods that you certainly appear to claim. It is made by someone as he contemplates the concentration camp at Auschwitz:

It's said that science will dehumanize people and turn them into numbers. That's false, tragically false. Look for yourself. This is the concentration camp and crematorium at Auschwitz. This is where people were turned into numbers. Into this pond were flushed the ashes of some four million people. And that was not done by gas. It was done by arrogance, it was done by dogma, it was done by ignorance. When people believe that they have absolute knowledge, with no test in reality, this is how they behave. This is what men do when they aspire to the knowledge of gods.
Science is a very human form of knowledge. We are always at the brink of the known; we always feel forward for what is to be hoped. Every judgment in science stands on the edge of error and is personal. Science is a tribute to what we can know although we are fallible. In the end, the words were said by Oliver Cromwell: "I beseech you in the bowels of Christ: Think it possible you may be mistaken."

 

[ScottA]

No, you self-publish books on Amazon in which you liken yourself to Einstein. I won't be buying it, but from what I could read of the introduction available in the preview...well, it's rare to see such a strong example of the Dunning-Kruger effect.

You're not a misunderstood genius. Get help. :s

...So...you're saying you can read. Good for you...oh, that's great, very cool, well done!

 

[expos4ever]

You have it backwards, nor did you understand what I said.

I was not saying that the followers of Jesus who are condemned...but that the children of God have been the ones who condemn God...killed the prophets, etc.

How do you presume to be clear and rational, when you do not understand these things?

I am not going to get into this with you. I have become convinced that this will be fruitless.

I will simply monitor your posts and will respond if and when you say something that I, as a member of the Church, believe hurts the already dreadful image of the modern North American Christian. If you are going to present yourself to the world as a representative of the church, I believe I have the obligation to offer a different model of the Christian for consideration. And let the readers decide which model, if either, might cause them to consider Christ.

 

[ScottA]

That Biblical text that you quote is certainly not license to make the frankly outrageous claim that you somehow have the gift of being able to do what no other human being can do - disentangle yourself from your own set of assumptions and beliefs and stand objectively over creation to examine it from God's point of view (for those of us who believe in God).

A little humility please; your hubris here is almost comical. Look, you are no different than the rest of us; we all cannot step outside our necessarily subjective view of the world and see the world from some sort of privileged, even divine, "objective" perspective.

Speak for yourself. If you are of little faith and believe more in your humanity than in the idea that it is no longer you who live but Christ who lives in you - that's you. But it ain't me.

I know this is hopeless, but I have to ask: where, and please be specific have I made comments about "the dead".

The passage that I referred to the "old [dead] man" that we are before we "become a new creation." If after we have died and it is no longer we who live but Christ who lives in us, we then go around speaking from our former [now dead] self...we are living in the [dead] past. If you are going to refer to me as speaking as from myself, rather than Christ speaking, then you have not heard what was written, nor taken it to heart, nor are you walking in it. But, that's you.

The way of Christ means many things, but one of them is to embrace the delusion that one somehow suddenly acquires the divine gift of seeing the world from a perspective other than a human one. Here is a quote that addresses the danger of pretension to the knowledge of the gods that you certainly appear to claim. It is made by someone as he contemplates the concentration camp at Auschwitz:

It's said that science will dehumanize people and turn them into numbers. That's false, tragically false. Look for yourself. This is the concentration camp and crematorium at Auschwitz. This is where people were turned into numbers. Into this pond were flushed the ashes of some four million people. And that was not done by gas. It was done by arrogance, it was done by dogma, it was done by ignorance. When people believe that they have absolute knowledge, with no test in reality, this is how they behave. This is what men do when they aspire to the knowledge of gods.
Science is a very human form of knowledge. We are always at the brink of the known; we always feel forward for what is to be hoped. Every judgment in science stands on the edge of error and is personal. Science is a tribute to what we can know although we are fallible. In the end, the words were said by Oliver Cromwell: "I beseech you in the bowels of Christ: Think it possible you may be mistaken."

You are wrong. To follow Christ, who embraced the would-be delusions of mere men in His perfect belief in God, does not make a man Hitler-like, but Christ-like. I make no claims of my own.

 

[Loudmouth]

That, of course, though you do not even consider it, would be like asking a baker how many papers they have published on the chemical make up of baking powder.

Bakers don't publish peer reviewed papers. Physicists do. The qualifications of a scientist are based on their publications.

Also, you never produced evidence that you met with any Creator. Where is that evidence?

I do not do papers on theories.

That's because you are not a qualified expert.

 

[expos4ever]

You are wrong. To follow Christ, who embraced the would-be delusions of mere men in His perfect belief in God, does not make a man Hitler-like, but Christ-like. I make no claims of my own.

Let me ask you: Are you capable of examining the world from a perspective that is not significantly influenced by the ensemble of views about the world that you, as an individual, have developed over the course of your life? If you say "yes", you are making the kind of claim that I would think might get one diagnosed with a mental disorder.

Unlike, perhaps, many of the "atheist / agnostic" posters here, I am well aware that the Scriptures teach that believers have the "mind of Christ". But I think the clear evidence of many of bumbling, "science-denyin', "militarism-embracin', gun-totin'" evangelicals who dismiss the views of others out of hand suggests that whatever it means to "have the mind of Christ", it certainly does not mean what you appear to think it means.

 

[Loudmouth]

You are under the wrong impression. I have not spoken from the grave. If I have Christ in me, it is no longer I who live, but Him who lives in me.

Evidence? Can you show us a CAT scan? MRI? X-ray?

 

[VirOptimus]

You misunderstand. I am not spreading falseness, I am not preaching, and the message is not mine. I am giving what has been given to me.

I didnt misunderstand. You are preaching, and you are spreading falseness. Its your choice of course but you arent fooling anyone. Even other christians find your modus and posts deplorable.

 

[ScottA]

Bakers don't publish peer reviewed papers. Physicists do. The qualifications of a scientist are based on their publications.

Also, you never produced evidence that you met with any Creator. Where is that evidence?



That's because you are not a qualified expert.

If you want your comments to be anything more than comments from the peanut gallery...you need to get in the game. Coming on the field spouting partial info about life on the bench, ain't gettin' it.

 

[ScottA]

Let me ask you: Are you capable of examining the world from a perspective that is not significantly influenced by the ensemble of views about the world that you, as an individual, have developed over the course of your life? If you say "yes", you are making the kind of claim that I would think might get one diagnosed with a mental disorder.

Unlike, perhaps, many of the "atheist / agnostic" posters here, I am well aware that the Scriptures teach that believers have the "mind of Christ". But I think the clear evidence of many of bumbling, "science-denyin', "militarism-embracin', gun-totin'" evangelicals who dismiss the views of others out of hand suggests that whatever it means to "have the mind of Christ", it certainly does not mean what you appear to think it means.

I have been clear. As have you...you are my accuser.

 

[ScottA]

I didnt misunderstand. You are preaching, and you are spreading falseness. Its your choice of course but you arent fooling anyone. Even other christians find your modus and posts deplorable.

Thank you. That puts me in great company.

 

[expos4ever]

...you are my accuser.

And this is a role I will stand by. When Christians make irrational arguments and do not play the rules of legitimate discussion and debate, it is at arguably the responsibility of other Christians to rebuke them.

 

[Loudmouth]

If you want your comments to be anything more than comments from the peanut gallery...you need to get in the game.

I am fully in the game. I am looking at evidence. You appear to think that you can just make stuff up and have it considered evidence.

 

[expos4ever]

I am reminded of the statement "Just because nobody understands you doesn't mean you are an artist".

 

[Davian]

Christians do not need to argue with atheists, nor do we need to defend Christianity or God.

But you do need to defend your opinions here, if you wish that they not be dismissed.

The victory is won. It is finished.

Pretty much. Religion remains religion, the protestations of religionists such as yourself notwithstanding.

We are not here for that purpose at all, but to spread the good news that they too can be raised up above death and the world.

The "good news" that, if your particular religion was an accurate description of reality, that the majority of individuals that ever lived on this planet will burn forever for reasons beyond their control.

I see no reason to be concerned.

Back to the OP; to be clear, your concession that science does not study "Time" (whatever you imply by that capitonym) renders this thread meaningless.

 

[ScottA]

I am fully in the game. I am looking at evidence. You appear to think that you can just make stuff up and have it considered evidence.

You are asking the wrong person (which I have told you many times). I also explained that I can tell you of it and describe it, which I have and you just refuse it.

How many times do I have to tell you? If you want the evidence you are asking for, you need to ask God. He is the only One who can deliver spiritual evidence.