No Time, No Age.

[joshua 1 9]

How does science stand its ground on the age of the universe, when science cannot agree that Time is anything but an illusion?

Time is not an illusion it is relative. Reality is an illusion.

 

[ScottA]

But you do need to defend your opinions here, if you wish that they not be dismissed.

I am not sharing my opinion.

I see no reason to be concerned.

Nothing ventured nothing gained/lost. Your call.

Back to the OP; to be clear, your concession that science does not study "Time" (whatever you imply by that capitonym) renders this thread meaningless.

I never said science doesn't study time. But, yes, if you will not be going on from here, you need not bother.

 

[ScottA]

Time is not an illusion it is relative. Reality is an illusion.

Very good! We have a winner! I was simply quoting the "expert."

 

[Davian]

I am not sharing my opinion.

An appropriate term, where you are not presenting facts.

Nothing ventured nothing gained/lost. Your call.

There is my intellectual integrity that I'd rather not lose.

I never said science doesn't study time.

Scroll back - I wrote "Time". Such is the nature of capitonyms; the capitalization changes the meaning of a word in manner that you have used it.

But, yes, if you will not be going on from here, you need not bother.

No worries. I'm always ready to give my opinion of your opinion.

 

[joshua 1 9]

Very good! We have a winner! I was simply quoting the "expert."

Plural experts. Einstein was much indebted to Planck for verifying his theorys.

 

[joshua 1 9]

I am not sharing my opinion.

It use to be that I could trick them by quoting one of their sages and then they would argue against themselves because they thought I said it. But after a while they catch onto that. It is easy to mine quote from the people they hold in high regard.

 

[VirOptimus]

-snip- It is easy to mine quote from the people they hold in high regard.

Quote mining is more or less lying.

 

[expos4ever]

In the unlikely event that some of you do not know this, the Christian narrative as expressed in the Bible really does tell believers that they will be persecuted for their faith - that people will "hate" you (the believer) because of your allegiance to Jesus. Fair enough, as a believer myself, I believe this certainly does happen. But as if it were not really otherwise obvious, this, of course, does not mean that any challenge or critique directed at Christian constitutes this form of persecution.

Sometimes Christians express incorrect views, and often ones that are wildly and disturbingly incorrect. Like believing men and dinosaurs communed together, or that it's OK to pillage the planet since Jesus is coming back soon.

Unfortunately, and as I am sure many of you already know, this belief that persecution will come to the believer provides a tempting excuse to dismiss legitimate objections. When you believe that you are going to be persecuted, it becomes all too easy to dismiss other people's objections as manifestations of such persecution.

 

[AHH who-stole-my-name]

In the unlikely event that some of you do not know this, the Christian narrative as expressed in the Bible really does tell believers that they will be persecuted for their faith - that people will "hate" you (the believer) because of your allegiance to Jesus. Fair enough, as a believer myself, I believe this certainly does happen. But as if it were not really otherwise obvious, this, of course, does not mean that any challenge or critique directed at Christian constitutes this form of persecution.

Sometimes Christians express incorrect views, and often ones that are wildly and disturbingly incorrect. Like believing men and dinosaurs communed together, or that it's OK to pillage the planet since Jesus is coming back soon.

Unfortunately, and as I am sure many of you already know, this belief that persecution will come to the believer provides a tempting excuse to dismiss legitimate objections. When you believe that you are going to be persecuted, it becomes all too easy to dismiss other people's objections as manifestations of such persecution.

There are too many people here who think being irritated is a form of prosecution. The Christian's of the West have pretty much had a cakewalk of a life and shouldn't describe what they are going through as persecution unless they've been in the hands of Isis.

 

[Loudmouth]

You are asking the wrong person (which I have told you many times). I also explained that I can tell you of it and describe it, which I have and you just refuse it.

You haven't described it.

How many times do I have to tell you? If you want the evidence you are asking for, you need to ask God. He is the only One who can deliver spiritual evidence.

Already asked. No one answered.

 

[AHH who-stole-my-name]

You haven't described it.


Already asked. No one answered.

The one thing I've found about asking things from God is that it really depends on how you ask him. Those who don't believe sometimes do so as if they were asking a rag doll in their child's playroom. I'm not saying you did this. I have no idea who you are, you could be the best person I will ever meet here. I was just commenting on your post and trying to relate my understanding in this matter. You have a wonderful day.

 

[Loudmouth]

The one thing I've found about asking things from God is that it really depends on how you ask him.

One of the biggest indications of bias is when you claim a person isn't doing it right when they don't get the outcome you expected.

Those who don't believe sometimes do so as if they were asking a rag doll in their child's playroom. I'm not saying you did this. I have no idea who you are, you could be the best person I will ever meet here. I was just commenting on your post and trying to relate my understanding in this matter. You have a wonderful day.

If you have to believe before you can believe, then the source of bias is pretty obvious.

 

[AHH who-stole-my-name]

One of the biggest indications of bias is when you claim a person isn't doing it right when they don't get the outcome you expected.

That is only true if the observer looks for bias in the words of others. It is an internal thing that doesn't represent anything other than the mental imagery that one fixates on and not the intention behind the response they received.

If you have to believe before you can believe, then the source of bias is pretty obvious.

No, it is the experience one gets after one, who has been an Atheist and has called upon God to answer something they indeed asked as if they were asking a doll. I have done this and it is from my own experiences that I pulled my last response to you. I don't know how you could get biassiness from that, but I would have wished you would have asked me before you insinuated that which you did.

I have no problem talking to those who are without faith. I think that in many ways those outside the faith are just as much, if not more stimulating than those who are within. You guys make me think and rethink my take on things. I just wish you could see me as more than just a robot mindlessly mouthing out that wish someone else placed inside my brain.
Kevin.

 

[Loudmouth]

That is only true if the observer looks for bias in the words of others. It is an internal thing that doesn't represent anything other than the mental imagery that one fixates on and not the intention behind the response they received.

It is like a snake oil salesman. When customers come back complaining that the snake oil doesn't work, the salesman makes all kind of excuses. For example, when you took the snake oil, were you standing on one foot? Or better yet, the snake oil didn't work because you didn't believe it would work. How does the salesman know that? BECAUSE THE SNAKE OIL DIDN'T WORK.

It's the perfect scam.

No, it is the experience one gets after one, who has been an Atheist and has called upon God to answer something they indeed asked as if they were asking a doll.

I was a Christian for the first 22 years of my life. Didn't get an answer then, either.

I have no problem talking to those who are without faith. I think that in many ways those outside the faith are just as much, if not more stimulating than those who are within. You guys make me think and rethink my take on things. I just wish you could see me as more than just a robot mindlessly mouthing out that wish someone else placed inside my brain.
Kevin.

One of the best outcomes of any discussion is the possibility of coming away with a better understanding of other peoples' positions. However, it seems like we are walking over a lot of the same territory.

If belief in God is based on faith instead of evidence, then fine. Problems arise when people claim that atheists are without excuse for not believing because there is evidence. When asked for that evidence, we again see theists retreating to a position where all of the evidence is suddenly invisible. That really doesn't help the discussion.

 

[ScottA]

There is my intellectual integrity that I'd rather not lose.

No worries. I'm always ready to give my opinion of your opinion.

I have not been referring to "integrity" or "opinion"...but life or death.

 

[ScottA]

Quote mining is more or less lying.

Only if it's a lie, otherwise it's the truth.

 

[Davian]

I have not been referring to "integrity" or "opinion"...but life or death.

Is that what your OP was about?

 

[ScottA]

You haven't described it.


Already asked. No one answered.

I described it.
Millions of others have described it.
The bible describes it.
The world describes it.
No excuse.

Be patient. The timing of events in your life is for you, time means nothing to God. And it might also help if you refrain from being rude and sarcastic.

 

[ScottA]

If you have to believe before you can believe, then the source of bias is pretty obvious.

Yes...this is all God's, and He has placed conditions on you and I. We don't get to put conditions back on Him, it is not our prerogative, but His.

 

[ScottA]

Is that what your OP was about?

Everything...all the world, is about life and death.