No New Commandment

Dkh587 said:

No need to go on a tirade, just asking a simple question based on what you posted.

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Well I tire of people spending lots of time majoring on the minors and forgetting th ebig issues to argue piddly points!

I am sure you knew well that it has been called the Mosaic Covenant by most of Judiasm and Christianity!

nolidad said:

The New Testament is vastly different than the Old testament as far as doctrine goes. It is called the Mosaic covenant simply because the 613 commands of that covenant were given by God to Moses! Just like we call the covenant in Eden the Adamic Covenant because it was a covenant God made with Adam!

Of course God has taught one thing at one time and another at another time! The people of God in the New TEstament are nos under the dietary restrictions God commanded Israel to live by.

We no longer stone adulterers and adulteresses! and many more.

All Scripute is equally inspired, but all SCripure is not equally applicable.!

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The differences between the old and the new covenants mostly are specified in scripture: Better because the mediator, moderator or administrator is Jesus Christ and not Moses who was not allowed to enter the promised land. Other differences is a new priesthood starting with Christ and the twelve apostles; where God writes the Law on the participants heart whereas in the old covenant the people had to write the Law on their own heart; with the new covenant, the consequences of the fathers sins are no longer perpetuated for three generations.



In the OT when referring to the covenant, the words law (ten commandments) and covenant are interchangeable



Matthew 10:5-7 (NKJV)
5 These twelve Jesus sent out and commanded them, saying: "Do not go into the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter a city of the Samaritans.
6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
7 And as you go, preach, saying, 'The kingdom of heaven is at hand.'

Matthew 15:24 (NKJV)
24 But He answered and said, "I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

Jeremiah 31:31 (NKJV)
31 "Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah--



The new covenant was made with the lost sheep of Israel.



Matthew 5:17 (NKJV)
17 "Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill., (fulfil all of the prophesies concerning Christ, which is also to confirm the covenant, mentioned by Daniel).

Matthew 5:18 (NKJV)
18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.


The question here is what does, “till all is fulfilled” mean; At least it means, till all the prophesies concerning Him in the Law and the Prophets are fulfilled; and these have not all been fulfilled yet.


Jeremiah 13:13 (NKJV)
13 Then you shall say to them, 'Thus says the LORD: "Behold, I will fill all the inhabitants of this land--even the kings who sit on David's throne, the priests, the prophets, and all the inhabitants of Jerusalem--with drunkenness!

Matthew 23:37-38 (NKJV)
37 "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing!
38 See! Your house is left to you desolate;


We do not stone sinners to death; but it still remains, the penalty for sin is death (unless the sinner repents). The difference is with Moses, Moses and the Priesthood,were the government; for the last 2000 years Rome (also called Satan, even though fragmented) is the Government. Rome does not use God's Law, he has his own law.

HARK! said:

(CLV) Jn 13:34
"A new precept am I giving to you, that you be loving one another; according as I love you, that you also be loving one another.


(CLV) Ec 1:9
What occurred once, it shall occur again, And what was done, it shall be done again. There is nothing at all new under the sun.

(CLV) Lv 19:18
You shall not avenge nor shall you be resentful against the sons of your people. You will love your associate as yourself: I am YHWH.

So why did Yahshua call this a new commandment?

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Because it was.
"A new commandment I give to you, love one another; as I have loved you, so you should also love one another," John 13:34.

The word for Love that is used is Agape. This is divine love.
Jesus gave us a command to love with divine love; this is how he loved us. He died for us while we were sinners, Romans 5:8.
No one could love as Jesus loved before he had come and demonstrated what divine love looks like. Divine love accepts outcasts, sinners, the unlovable, those who are far from God - Jesus not only welcomed and ate with people such as these, he gave his life for them.
John says in his epistle; "this is how we know what love (agape) is; Jesus Christ laid down his life for us", 1 John 3:16.

HARK! said:

Not "neos," but kainos.

(CLV) 1Jn 3:11
For this is the message which you hear from the beginning, that we may be loving one another,

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Doesn't matter what the word is.
No one had eve loved as Christ loved - with divine love - until he came to show us that love.
It is a commandment to love in a new way - as Christ loved us. No one had done, or given, that before, so it was new.

HARK! said:

Words have meaning.

Words matter.

In the beginning was the word.

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The Word being Jesus.

I don't know the meanings of the Greek words you quoted. The commandment was new because it was to love with a new kind of love (agape) as Jesus loved us.

HARK! said:

You might try reading the OP.

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I have.
You said that Jesus was "refreshing YHWH's command to love our associates as ourselves."
I disagree - he clearly said: "as I have loved you, so you are to love one another". Love one another in the same way, or manner, that he loved us - with perfect, agape love. You said that words are important; look up the Greek word used here for love, and what it means. THAT is how we are commanded to love others.

HARK! said:

Disagree as you may; it's the same word.

(CLV) 1Jn 3:11
For this is the message which you hear from the beginning, that we may be loving (G25) one another,

(CLV) Jn 13:34
"A new precept am I giving to you, that you be loving one another; according as I love (G25) you, that you also be loving (G25) one another.

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i) When I said "I disagree" I was referring to the fact that you said that Jesus was talking about loving our neighbour as ourselves. He clearly said "love one another".

ii) He also said, "As I have loved you".
Jesus used the word Agape, yes. The word Agape is used in 1 John 3:11, yes. But in the phrase "love one another" or "love your neighbour", recorded in the OT, would the word Agape have been used? Well, no it wouldn't because it is a Greek word - but would Moses have told the Hebrews to love their neighbour with God's divine love? I doubt it; they did not have that relationship with God and did not know that was possible. No-one knew, until Jesus came.
Jesus said "as I have loved you, so you must love one another". Jesus came, showed us how to love and told us to love with God's love.
God's love mixes with unclean people, disabled people, hated people, sinful people and, instead of condemning, rejecting, ignoring them and judging them for their sins says, "I love you and so badly want you to have a relationship with me that I gave my perfect Son for you." Prior to this the Hebrew people were told, "keep the law, remember the covenant and God will be pleased with you." Jesus showed us a NEW relationship with God; one where we call him Father and where, eventually, it would be possible for the Holy, Creator God to live IN us, his human temples.
John tells us that the cross demonstrates and defines God's love for us, 1 John 3:16 - and this is how we are to love one another. So it is a new commandment - love as Jesus loves.

Here are some New Commandments given to us in the New Testament.

1. And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. (1 John 3:23).
2. “Repent” (i.e. Seek forgiveness with the Lord Jesus Christ) (Acts of the Apostles 17:30 says, “God… now commands all men everywhere to repent”).
3. A new commandment I give unto you, That you love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if you have love one to another (John 13:34-35).
4. “Watch” (“For the Son of man is as a man taking a far journey, who left his house, and gave authority to his servants, and to every man his work, and commanded the doorkeeper to watch. Watch you therefore: for you know not when the Master of the house comes,...” - See: Mark 13:33-37).
5. Tell the women to keep silent in the churches. For it is not permitted unto them to speak, but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also says the law; And if they will learn anything, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is a shame for women to speak in the church (1 Corinthians 14:34-35).
6. Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you withdraw yourselves from every brother who walks disorderly (2 Thessalonians 3:6).
7. Keep the following commandment without spot, unrebukable, until the appearance of our Lord Jesus Christ: Fight the good fight of faith, and lay hold on eternal life, whereby you are called, and have professed a good profession before many witnesses (1 Timothy 6:12-14).

Side Note:

There was no church before Jesus Christ. The church came into existence after Christ. So the command for women to keep silent in the churches is a New Covenant command.

Bible Highlighter said:

Here are some New Commandments given to us in the New Testament.

A new commandment I give unto you, That you love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if you have love one to another (John 13:34-35).

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So now you're agreeing it IS a new command?

[QUOTE="Bible Highlighter, post: 76419392, member: 356113"

Tell the women to keep silent in the churches. For it is not permitted unto them to speak, but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also says the law; And if they will learn anything, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is a shame for women to speak in the church (1 Corinthians 14:34-35)

Side Note:

There was no church before Jesus Christ. The church came into existence after Christ. So the command for women to keep silent in the churches is a New Covenant command.[/QUOTE]

That's not a commandment.
If it was, God himself would have broken it since he has called many women to be ordained and there are hundreds of female preachers.

If you want a serious debate, start another thread so that we don't go off topic.

nolidad said:

No! The law was more concerned with the ourtward actions.

Jesus would constantly say "But I say" That is the clue He was introducing something brand new and beyond the law.

Like simply looking upon a woman with lust is adultery! That was never said in the Mosaic Law!

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No not new .... they were misinterpreting the text and when Jesus said "I say" .... He was revealing to them what the text really meant. ie (you don't understand) what was written.

Which by the way still goes on today .... that is why there are so many different interpretations of the texts.

All of Jesus teaching was based on the OT, what Jesus did is provide details/clarity about what they really meant.

The law ... eternal everlasting law is what is under the mercy seat in heaven. Tablets of stone.

The law as associated with the sanctuary system was done away with (nailed to the cross) and is placed outside (not under the mercy seat) because Jesus became our high priest and ministers from the sanctuary in heaven (the real one, not made with human hands) ... no more need for a earthly sanctuary system.

The clergy of the time had lost sight of the "who" the sanctuary system was all about (Jesus/Messiah) and were trusting in the system (church system of the day) rather than the who.

22 And no one puts new wine into old wineskins. If he does, the wine will burst the skins—and the wine is destroyed, and so are the skins. But new wine is for fresh wineskins.”

Strong in Him said:

That's not a commandment.
If it was, God himself would have broken it since he has called many women to be ordained and there are hundreds of female preachers.

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As I understand it Paul was speaking against gossiping.

HARK! said:

(CLV) Jn 13:34
"A new precept am I giving to you, that you be loving one another; according as I love you, that you also be loving one another.


(CLV) Ec 1:9
What occurred once, it shall occur again, And what was done, it shall be done again. There is nothing at all new under the sun.

(CLV) Lv 19:18
You shall not avenge nor shall you be resentful against the sons of your people. You will love your associate as yourself: I am YHWH.

So why did Yahshua call this a new commandment?

He didn't.

That is how the word was translated into English. In the Greek, we see two words, with two different meanings. translated into one English word.

The word kainos, which is used in John 13:34, is not the word used for new with respect to age, or neos.

G2537

καινός kainós, kahee-nos'; of uncertain affinity; new (especially in freshness; while G3501 is properly so with respect to age:—new.



G3501

†νέος néos, neh'-os; including the comparative νεότερος neóteros neh-o'-ter-os; a primary word; "new", i.e. (of persons) youthful, or (of things) fresh; figuratively, regenerate:—new, young.

I might say that I bought a new house; but that house might have been built over 100 years ago.

Yahshua was refreshing YHWH's commandment to love our associates as ourselves.

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JOHN 13:34 IS A NEW APPLICATION OF LEVITICUS 19:18

For me I read John 13:34 as a new take on something old (Leviticus 19:18). For me the scriptures teach that God is love *1 John 4:8 and Jesus is God *John 1:1-4; 14. Now look at all these scriptures together with the Greek...

John 13:34 I am giving you a new commandment, that you love one another; just as I have loved you, that you also love one another.

The Greek word used for "new" here is καινός (kainós - G2537) and means "refresh" or anew or "newly invented"

Applying the Greek meaning to the above scriptures, we read, God is love; God is the very definition of what love is. Jesus is God. Therefore, Jesus is the very definition of what love is and how we are to love another. John 13:34 is a new commandment or καινός "a refreshed new application of the old commandment" of what it means to love another as Jesus who is God and the very definition of love is commanding His disciples to love one another as God loves us!

In this aspect John 13:34 is a new commandment made anew or refreshed from old testament scriptures from Leviticus 19:18 demonstrated through Jesus who is God who is the very definition of what love is. Loving one another however has it's origins in the old testament scriptures but loving each other like God loves us is how we are to truly love each other which is fresh and a new application of Leviticus 19:18.

Hope this makes sense.

HARK! said:

You got it!

(CLV) Jn 13:34
"A new (G2537) precept am I giving to you, that you be loving one another; according as I love you, that you also be loving one another.

(CLV) Mk 2:22
And not one is draining fresh (G3501) wine into old wine skins. Yet, if so, will not the fresh (G3501) wine be bursting the wine skins? And the wine is spilling, and the wine skins will perish. But fresh wine is put into new wine skins."

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It's not old wine made new, but new wine.