No-Knock Warrant Results in Death of Minneapolis Man

[Ana the Ist]

The circumstance is that the police were in the wrong place.

Were they though? Or were they in the right place to use their platform to create a dialogue?

 

[Nithavela]

What if the evidence is a person they kidnapped?

Don't be silly, you can't flush down a person unless you dissolve them in acid, and that takes hours.

 

[RDKirk]

What if the evidence is a person they kidnapped?

Did you read what I wrote: "... the only justifiable reason for a no-knock raid would be to save the life of someone in imminent danger."

 

[RDKirk]

I agree...if they aren't identified by their clothing, shouting, and general manner....I too could easily shoot at a cop I had reasonably mistaken for a criminal with a battering ram and highly tactical team. That's a thing somewhere...I'm certain of it.

If you check the details of recent cases, that hasn't been the situation. It wasn't in this case, either.

Yeah, but you wouldn't shoot, right? I'm sure you were trained to identify targets and what's behind them before firing....same as me.

Surely if we expect the police to make perfect split second life and death decisions and never misjudge them....we can do the same as responsible gun owners.

Actually, no. We should totally expect the police to be better doing their own job than a citizen, particularly when they are the instigators of the incident.

There is no good reason for police to ever, ever, ever attack the wrong address. They have plenty of time and ability to make sure they are in the right place.

 

[RDKirk]

Dark yes, in tac gear yes, big letters POLICE where it can be easily seen yes, shouting police, police, police show your hands. What else would you have wanted them to do?

That was not the situation in this case, and it often isn't. The police were also in plain clothes, for instance, in the Brianna Taylor case.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Actually, no. We should totally expect the police to be better doing their own job than a citizen, particularly when they are the instigators of the incident.

Frankly, I find this sort of argument a little weird.

I get that your tax dollars are going to the cop....and in that sense you're paying for a service and it should perform better?

Here's the thing...are we interested in reducing the number of situations where people are going to be shot by police under questionable conditions? It's not as if the idea of knowing who you're shooting at is at all extreme or asking a lot of every gun owner. It's first day basic safety training for guns.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Did you read what I wrote: "... the only justifiable reason for a no-knock raid would be to save the life of someone in imminent danger."

How would you know that the danger was imminent before going through the door?

 

[RDKirk]

Frankly, I find this sort of argument a little weird.

I get that your tax dollars are going to the cop....and in that sense you're paying for a service and it should perform better?

Here's the thing...are we interested in reducing the number of situations where people are going to be shot by police under questionable conditions? It's not as if the idea of knowing who you're shooting at is at all extreme or asking a lot of every gun owner. It's first day basic safety training for guns.

Nobody is supposed to be in my living room without my invitation.

 

[RDKirk]

How would you know that the danger was imminent before going through the door?

The question is: Why are they going through the door unless they already know there is imminent danger?

 

[timothyu]

I wonder how this would have played out if the occupant had blown himself up. Would he still be called a victim of surprise?

Also what might be the reaction of anyone here who was used to pulling a firearm due to lifestyle or when threatened in being rudely awakened from a deep sleep? Incoherence or razor sharp wits?

 

[Ana the Ist]

The question is: Why are they going through the door unless they already know there is imminent danger?

A better question is how often do these no knock warrants happen exactly as planned and no one gets hurt?

 

[iluvatar5150]

Turns out St Paul police didn't request a no-knock warrant in the first place. It was the MPD who would be serving the warrant who insisted on it being changed to a no-knock.

St. Paul didn't ask for no-knock warrant, MPD got one anyway | kare11.com

 

[Trogdor the Burninator]

America: We're the land of the free, where you can own a gun to defend yourself in your home, and where our second amendment is designed to protect against oppressive government by having a nation of gun owners who can defend themselves.

Also America: Police can smash down the door to your house without announcing who they are, in the middle of the night, and despite the shock and surprise of having people running into your home with guns, if you fail to react exactly as they tell you to, they can just shoot you.

The cognitive gymnastics required to justify both these statements as being true and reasonable are beyond me.

 

[timothyu]

The cognitive gymnastics required to justify both these statements as being true and reasonable are beyond me.

The latter worked well for troops in the Middle East

 

[RDKirk]

America: We're the land of the free, where you can own a gun to defend yourself in your home, and where our second amendment is designed to protect against oppressive government by having a nation of gun owners who can defend themselves.

Also America: Police can smash down the door to your house without announcing who they are, in the middle of the night, and despite the shock and surprise of having people running into your home with guns, if you fail to react exactly as they tell you to, they can just shoot you.

The cognitive gymnastics required to justify both these statements as being true and reasonable are beyond me.

This is how you ferret out the true pro-totalitarians.

Defenders of no-knock are always the minority on gun forums. "Molon Labe" and "no-knock laws are fine" don't share the same headspace.

 

[Nithavela]

America: We're the land of the free, where you can own a gun to defend yourself in your home, and where our second amendment is designed to protect against oppressive government by having a nation of gun owners who can defend themselves.

Also America: Police can smash down the door to your house without announcing who they are, in the middle of the night, and despite the shock and surprise of having people running into your home with guns, if you fail to react exactly as they tell you to, they can just shoot you.

The cognitive gymnastics required to justify both these statements as being true and reasonable are beyond me.

You should seriously work on your doublethink, then.

 

[Pommer]

The latter worked well for troops in the Middle East

American homes=war zones, delightful.

 

[timothyu]

American homes=war zones, delightful.

I seem to recall the fight between the good guys and bad guys goes way back and was the fodder for movies not only now but especially back in the '20's and onward as both sides took on each other in real life. Nothing has changed other than the bad guys are being offended now.

 

[Pommer]

I seem to recall the fight between the good guys and bad guys goes way back and was the fodder for movies not only now but especially back in the '20's and onward as both sides took on each other in real life. Nothing has changed other than the bad guys are being offended now.

Why is Mr Locke a “bad guy”, in this case?

 

[Ana the Ist]

America: We're the land of the free, where you can own a gun to defend yourself in your home, and where our second amendment is designed to protect against oppressive government by having a nation of gun owners who can defend themselves.

Also America: Police can smash down the door to your house without announcing who they are, in the middle of the night, and despite the shock and surprise of having people running into your home with guns, if you fail to react exactly as they tell you to, they can just shoot you.

The cognitive gymnastics required to justify both these statements as being true and reasonable are beyond me.

That's probably because you don't understand the work involved in obtaining a warrant.