No-Knock Warrant Results in Death of Minneapolis Man

[Freodin]

So your suggestion would be for people to not draw their weapons on people intruding into their home until they have them positively identified them as a threat?

It's so simple.

The police, who are trained for dangerous situations, and come prepared in such a specific situation, are completely justified with acting instantaneously when they see a gun, because it is obviously a threat to them and they have to react without thinking.

You, as a normal citizen, without training or preparation, just NEED to take the time and first establish the situation and ponder if your initial reflex-reaction of drawing a gun might not have been a mist... oh, sorry, you're dead. Better luck in your next life.

 

[Nithavela]

It's so simple.

The police, who are trained for dangerous situations, and come prepared in such a specific situation, are completely justified with acting instantaneously when they see a gun, because it is obviously a threat to them and they have to react without thinking.

You, as a normal citizen, without training or preparation, just NEED to take the time and first establish the situation and ponder if your initial reflex-reaction of drawing a gun might not have been a mist... oh, sorry, you're dead. Better luck in your next life.

I think that citizens in the USA should go through extensive training.

 

[RDKirk]

The article I read indicated that the police identified themselves multiple times upon entering, I think you understand tactics well enough to know that you do not identify yourself before you breach a door and let people spray the doorway as you enter. regarding your question I will ask you the same question, what makes you think that a criminal is going to falsely announce that its the police. Much more likely that a criminal is going to enter shooting, the first and only announcement will be from the end of a gun.

Actually, the police are required to identify themselves before entering.

Are you in the United States?

 

[Nithavela]

Actually, the police are required to identify themselves before entering.

Are you in the United States?

Are you? They don't seem to follow this requirement as a matter of policy, or "no knock warrants" wouldn't be a thing in the first place.

 

[RDKirk]

Are you? They don't seem to follow this requirement as a matter of policy, or "no knock warrants" wouldn't be a thing in the first place.

If the police actually have a specific no-knock warrant, they announce themselves as they break in. But if they do not have such a warrant, they must announce themselves outside the door.

This was an odd case in that the police had a key to enter stealthily. They were not even entering to make an arrest.

But I go back to my original point that the only bona fide purpose for a no-knock entrance should be to save a life that is already in imminent danger.

The state is not treating the killing of the wrong person with the gravity it deserves. There is no evidence someone can dispose of that quickly that would lead to arrest for a crime worth the risk of killing the wrong person.

 

[The IbanezerScrooge]

Honestly, I don't think in this instance there was any plausible scenario where Locke wouldn't have been shot and killed. If the gun had been on the table next to the couch I almost guarantee the police would have yelled "gun!" and fired. If the gun had been on the couch with Locke and became visable when he got up even without touching it, he would have been shot.

This should scare the bejeezus out of every American and especially 2Aers. There's a reason it doesn't in this particular case and other cases like Philandro Castro or Atatiana Jefferson.

 

[iluvatar5150]

The article I read indicated that the police identified themselves multiple times upon entering, I think you understand tactics well enough to know that you do not identify yourself before you breach a door and let people spray the doorway as you enter. regarding your question I will ask you the same question, what makes you think that a criminal is going to falsely announce that its the police. Much more likely that a criminal is going to enter shooting, the first and only announcement will be from the end of a gun.

Why don't you go watch the video instead of arguing with a bunch of questionable interpretations of the events?

 

[Tinker Grey]

Anyone hear of Blackstone's ration: Better 9 innocent people dead (especially if non-white) than one guilty person go free.


Oh, wait ... that's not it.

 

[RDKirk]

Honestly, I don't think in this instance there was any plausible scenario where Locke wouldn't have been shot and killed. If the gun had been on the table next to the couch I almost guarantee the police would have yelled "gun!" and fired. If the gun had been on the couch with Locke and became visable when he got up even without touching it, he would have been shot.

This should scare the bejeezus out of every American and especially 2Aers. There's a reason it doesn't in this particular case and other cases like Philandro Castro or Atatiana Jefferson.

Actually, quite a lot of white gunowners were upset about the Philando Castile shooting, and quit the NRA because of the NRA's support of the police in that case.

 

[disciple Clint]

So your suggestion would be for people to not draw their weapons on people intruding into their home until they have them positively identified them as a threat?

No my suggestion is never point a gun at a cop.

 

[disciple Clint]

There's no scenario when people can actually use it sucessfully.

Here we have an innocent person in their own home when someone smashes down the door. Surely, if any scenario were to be a case of "a right to bear arms" this would be it.

We have police dressed like police saying they are police and then having a gun pointed at them, what did you expect, Do you think the officer should take the first bullet?

 

[RDKirk]

We have police dressed like police saying they are police and then having a gun pointed at them, what did you expect, Do you think the officer should take the first bullet?

They frequently aren't dressed as police, and it's always dark.

 

[timothyu]

Another moral of the story. Don't crash on others' couches. You never know who'll drop in.

 

[disciple Clint]

Actually, the police are required to identify themselves before entering.

Are you in the United States?

yes I am in the United States and I am certain that the officers were well trained and complied with all appropriate legal requirements.

 

[disciple Clint]

They frequently aren't dressed as police, and it's always dark.

Dark yes, in tac gear yes, big letters POLICE where it can be easily seen yes, shouting police, police, police show your hands. What else would you have wanted them to do?

 

[timothyu]

Perhaps a text with emojis of hands up or whatever. Something people these days would be quick to understand.

 

[Ana the Ist]

"Evidence might be destroyed" is a lousy reason. Nobody can flush a meth lab or a marijuana farm down a toilet. The only evidence that could be destroyed in such a short time would be a small amount that would not result in an arrest for a crime worth the risk of killing the wrong person. The risk is not worth it for someone with a "dime bag" of crack that could be flushed down a toilet.

Considering the risk of the death of the wrong person, the only justifiable reason for a no-knock raid would be to save the life of someone in imminent danger. Otherwise, the police can wait for a more optimum situation.

What if the evidence is a person they kidnapped?

 

[Freodin]

What if the evidence is a person they kidnapped?

But I go back to my original point that the only bona fide purpose for a no-knock entrance should be to save a life that is already in imminent danger.

 

[Ana the Ist]

There are a whole lot of citizen gun owners who would dispute that, including me. Yes, I certainly can have a gun in my hands within seconds of someone kicking down my door...I train for that possibility.

I agree...if they aren't identified by their clothing, shouting, and general manner....I too could easily shoot at a cop I had reasonably mistaken for a criminal with a battering ram and highly tactical team. That's a thing somewhere...I'm certain of it.

They would certainly find me armed under the same circumstances.

Yeah, but you wouldn't shoot, right? I'm sure you were trained to identify targets and what's behind them before firing....same as me.

Surely if we expect the police to make perfect split second life and death decisions and never misjudge them....we can do the same as responsible gun owners.

 

[Ana the Ist]

buT THeyRe HUNtiNg polICe!!!

Is that a saying? Does someone say that?