No Hell?

[Erinwilcox]

Thats very ridiculous and insulting to claim "Satan" is decieving me that there is no hell.

Heh, its quite obvious what I believe though. I will guarantee this poll is radically skewed in favor of hell though. No surprise, though.

Found this in the Christian teen section. Is it really possible for somebody to read their Bible and come away with saying that there is no hell? Can a person be saved and believe that there is no hell? What would they need to be saved from?

Notice, all you who might be reading this, I didn't mention any names, so you can't get on my case.

 

[Jon_]

Found this in the Christian teen section. Is it really possible for somebody to read their Bible and come away with saying that there is no hell?

Without the illumination of the Holy Spirit, yes.

Can a person be saved and believe that there is no hell? What would they need to be saved from?

Ahhh, that's a much more difficult question. At the very least I'll say that someone who denies the existence of hell will probably have no problem denying other doctrines of Christianity as well. It's much more likely that someone who denies hell is unregenerate, but I'll stop short of saying that this one particular unorthodox belief is enough to damn someone.

Notice, all you who might be reading this, I didn't mention any names, so you can't get on my case.

Oh, I am all over your case all through next week. Don't think you can get off that easy.

Soli Deo Gloria

Jon

 

[Erinwilcox]

Oh, I am all over your case all through next week. Don't think you can get off that easy.

Soli Deo Gloria

Jon

I guess I do deserve it, don't I.

 

[Defcon]

I have had some discussion via forums with those who don't believe in hell or believe it is only temporary and all will in the end be saved. To my surprise they weren't "feelers" or those who just believe what they feel but they took it back to scripture that Christ's sacrifice actually saved. Their error was assuming that His death was for each and every person; not the elect. It's kind of funny because I see them actually reading the verses concerning Christ's atonement as they should be read - where Arminians bypass them as "upon condition(s)". So perhaps the root of this belief people is based in the universal atonement (which is Armninian) and from there some have found that Christ's atonement wasn't upon condition. This leads to their logical conclusion that all men are saved. Thus the importance of sound doctrine of Scripture where we find Christ died for all the sin of some men.

 

[Erinwilcox]

That was an interesting explanation. I guess I never thought about it that way before. I suppose it is only following Arminianism to its logical conclusion (but of course, most Arminians don't follow it to its logical end anyway).

 

[Knight]

There is simply no logic to this argument...

The Bible is quite clear. Accept it or reject it.

Just my $0.02...

 

[Defcon]

There is simply no logic to this argument...

The Bible is quite clear. Accept it or reject it.

Just my $0.02...

I agree - on the basis that they have the false premise that Christ's death was for every individual (universal). However, those who believe this heresy probably have a better understanding of Christ's purpose in atonement (to actually save individuals instead of purchasing a condition) than Arminians.

 

[jonas3]

Can a person be saved and believe that there is no hell? What would they need to be saved from?

Ahh, and here is where we separate the believers from the God-haters. Many false religionists will often say that these wrong beliefs are "heretical", or that they are in "error", or that their belief is "unorthodox", but all of these words mean nothing coming from these people. What is so heretical about it if it doesn't show someone to be unregenerate? In short, nothing.

You make a good point Erinwilcox, for what would they need to be saved from? All who do not believe in the existence of hell, or all who deny that the damned suffer eternally in hell are unregenerate (i.e. they are presently not saved). How could a person presently BE saved if they do not believe that they need TO BE saved? The gospel is God's promise to SAVE His people conditioned on the atoning blood and imputed righteousness of Christ alone. What was the purpose of Christ dying on the cross to take away the sins of His people? What are the wages of sin?

Simply, those who deny the existence of hell, the eternality of hell, or do not know if the damned suffer eternally in hell, do not believe the gospel. Jesus Christ came to pay for the sins of His people. He saved them from everlasting punishment. If one does not believe that the wicked suffer everlasting punishment in hell, then they have denied the righteousness and holiness of God. No person could EVER pay for their sins, because no person can be justified by THEIR works. The wicked must pay for their sins FOREVER, because they can NEVER pay for their sins. God’s holiness and righteousness demands it.

-jonas

 

[Knight]

However, those who believe this heresy probably have a better understanding of Christ's purpose in atonement (to actually save individuals instead of purchasing a condition) than Arminians.

I'm not exactly sure I understand what you are saying here.

Someone who does not accept the ultimate penalty for sin would have no conception of the magnitude of Christ's atonement.

We are saved from eternal death (hell) to eternal life (righteousness).

Perhaps this is merely a misunderstanding...

 

[Erinwilcox]

Not to put words in Defcon's mouth, but here is what I think he was saying.

A. The Arminians believe that Jesus died to SAVE EVERYONE.
B. If Jesus really died to save everyone, then everyone would go to heaven.
C. The Arminians don't believe this.
D. The no-hellers do.
E. The Arminians believe that the condition of Salvation is the choice to follow Christ. That you can't be saved unless you choose Him.
F. But really, Jesus didn't die so that we could make a choice to choose Him, he came to SAVE us, not offer us a choice.
G. The people who don't believe in hell may seem to understand Christ's intent more since there is no condition of salvation, only the saving work of Christ (which they feel is extended to all).

Also, those who don't believe in hell have a better understanding of Arminian theology than the Arminians themselves.
(You see, if Jesus died TO SAVE EVERYBODY on the face of the earth, then His death would be wasted if not EVERYBODY WAS SAVED. Therefore, in order that His death not be wasted, Everyone would have to go to heaven. There would be no need of hell because He died for EVERYONE so everyone goes to heaven. This is where Arminian theology ultimately leads. Unfortunately, most people don't think it through this far.)

 

[Knight]

If that was the case..... Got it.

 

[Shannonkish]

Found this in the Christian teen section. Is it really possible for somebody to read their Bible and come away with saying that there is no hell? Can a person be saved and believe that there is no hell? What would they need to be saved from?

Notice, all you who might be reading this, I didn't mention any names, so you can't get on my case.

I am not Reformed, so I can't debate... but I can answer your question---

Yes, it is possible for one to read the Bible and still not believe in hell.... I am one of those that has read the Bible throughout.... multiple times... and have walked away not believing there is a hell..

For more on my thoughts--- http://www.christianforums.com/t2103751-[reality-of]-hell.html

 

[Jon_]

I am not Reformed, so I can't debate... but I can answer your question---

Yes, it is possible for one to read the Bible and still not believe in hell.... I am one of those that has read the Bible throughout.... multiple times... and have walked away not believing there is a hell..

For more on my thoughts--- http://www.christianforums.com/t2103751-%5Breality-of%5D-hell.html

(Mt. 25:41, 46 AV) Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: 46) And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

(Jn. 8:43, 44 AV) Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word. 44) Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
​

Soli Deo Gloria

Jon

 

[Erinwilcox]

I am not Reformed, so I can't debate... but I can answer your question---

Yes, it is possible for one to read the Bible and still not believe in hell.... I am one of those that has read the Bible throughout.... multiple times... and have walked away not believing there is a hell..

For more on my thoughts--- http://www.christianforums.com/t2103751-%5Breality-of%5D-hell.html

I followed you link and I'm very sorry for the loss of your mother. I understand how it is to lose someone that you love very much. I don't mean to be unsensitive, but could your denial of the biblical doctrine of hell stem from an unwillingness to assess your mother's true spiritual condition and a desire to assure yourself that you will one day see her again? I too lost somebody that I loved very deeply-my uncle-and I don't know whether or not he was Christian. My father's father does not believe in God and absolutely refuses to talk about religion. He has Parkinson's and various other illnesses-I fear that he will not be with us for too much longer. I almost cry when I think that if he were to die right now, a sinner mocking an Angry God, that he would go to hell and I would never see him again. However, I try to keep these verses in mind-Rom 9:19Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? Rom 9:20Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed [it], Why hast thou made me thus?
Rom 9:21Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?


Also, Romans 8:28 is helpful in granting the peace that God is working all things for the good of His elect.

As for hell, Jesus Himself speaks of it:
Mar 9:42And whosoever shall offend one of [these] little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea. Mar 9:43And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: Mar 9:44Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. Mar 9:45And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: Mar 9:46Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. Mar 9:47And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire: Mar 9:48Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

 

[Shannonkish]

Since I can't debate here.. I cannot answer your questions to the extent that I would like.... however, I will say that I do not appreciate your insinuation of 1) my mom's eternal placement. 2) your insinuation of the reason for my beliefs.

 

[Erinwilcox]

I wish that you could have heard the voice going through my head as I posted. In all honesty, I was asking in love and not prodding unsensitively. I'm afraid that I have an extremely vivid imagination and I was, in reality, trying to put myself into your shoes and see what I might be thinking if I were in them. I almost had tears in my eyes as I thought of you grieving for your mother. I was only asking because those seemed to be the reasons that you gave in the link that you posted. And I didn't pass any judgement on your mother, I only asked if you had assessed it because you posted something to that effect in the link. Sorry if I seemed offensive.

Aside from all of that, what are your thoughts on the verses that have been posted in this thread?

 

[PapaLandShark]

Since I can't debate here.. I cannot answer your questions to the extent that I would like.... however, I will say that I do not appreciate your insinuation of 1) my mom's eternal placement. 2) your insinuation of the reason for my beliefs.

Dear heart...Erin insinuated nothing. Scripture is clear on this. Erin merely quoted from the Book.

My mother and father are likely not saved. If they are not called before death they are going to Hell. Do I like that? No...but it is not my choice. I can lead them to the Cross and no farther.

Have you no wish for others to be saved? Then you are not saved yourself. Be sure of that.
- Charles Spurgeon

What, then, are we saved from?

 

[Defcon]

If that was the case..... Got it.

ErinWilcox nailed the explanation - that is the line of thought I was trying to get across.

 

[Shannonkish]

I am sorry I ever came into this topic and responded. PLS, your post hurts deeply and I would appreciate it if you would not speak of my mother or her eternal placement in that manner again. This is my last post in this thread!

 

[Erinwilcox]

I am sorry I ever came into this topic and responded. PLS, your post hurts deeply and I would appreciate it if you would not speak of my mother or her eternal placement in that manner again. This is my last post in this thread!

I'm sorry that she feels this way. I thought that the post sounded very loving.