No “Election” in Old Testament

Dale

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According to the Doctrine of Election, God elects those who will be saved.

Is the Doctrine of Election Biblical, or is it something invented by theologians?

International Standard Bible Encyclopedia (ISBE) under Election:

“The word is absent from the Old Testament …”


The Old Testament is more than half the Bible.
The ISBE is very conservative, favorable to creationism and predestination.
It’s interesting that the ISBE can find no mention of “election” in the Old Testament.
 

Mark Quayle

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According to the Doctrine of Election, God elects those who will be saved.

Is the Doctrine of Election Biblical, or is it something invented by theologians?

International Standard Bible Encyclopedia (ISBE) under Election:

“The word is absent from the Old Testament …”


The Old Testament is more than half the Bible.
The ISBE is very conservative, favorable to creationism and predestination.
It’s interesting that the ISBE can find no mention of “election” in the Old Testament.
I wouldn't particularly expect the Illinois State Board of Elections to care what the Old Testament has to say about elections.
 
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Mark Quayle

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According to the Doctrine of Election, God elects those who will be saved.

Is the Doctrine of Election Biblical, or is it something invented by theologians?

International Standard Bible Encyclopedia (ISBE) under Election:

“The word is absent from the Old Testament …”


The Old Testament is more than half the Bible.
The ISBE is very conservative, favorable to creationism and predestination.
It’s interesting that the ISBE can find no mention of “election” in the Old Testament.
Why should the Old Testament contain the word, "elect", when it only means chosen?
 
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Neostarwcc

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Umm in the book of Isaiah alone there are hundreds of references to Election. Idk where you get "no election in the OT from" election is everywhere in the OT.

Another example would be God's promise to Abraham when he promised Abraham descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky. Abraham's descendants are the Elect people chosen by God.

God had an Elect people from the very beginning not just from the Jews but also from the Whole world . From every tribe people and nation.
 
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Dah'veed

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According to the Doctrine of Election, God elects those who will be saved.

Is the Doctrine of Election Biblical, or is it something invented by theologians?

International Standard Bible Encyclopedia (ISBE) under Election:

“The word is absent from the Old Testament …”
Remember me, O Lord, with the favor You have toward Your people; visit me with Your salvation, That I may see the benefit of Your chosen ones; Ps 106:4-5

The Living Stone and a Chosen People
But you are God's chosen people so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light. 1 Peter 2:4-10

Live honorably among unbelievers, wherein they malign the way, they may observe your good works and glorify God in the day of visitation. 1 Peter 2:12
 
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Dale

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Umm in the book of Isaiah alone there are hundreds of references to Election. Idk where you get "no election in the OT from" election is everywhere in the OT.

Another example would be God's promise to Abraham when he promised Abraham descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky. Abraham's descendants are the Elect people chosen by God.

God had an Elect people from the very beginning not just from the Jews but also from the Whole world . From every tribe people and nation.

Neostar: “Umm in the book of Isaiah alone there are hundreds of references to Election. Idk where you get "no election in the OT from" election is everywhere in the OT.


What you mean by Election and what theologians mean by Election don’t seem to be the same thing.

I have a Disciples Study Bible, with extensive notes. The notes reflect a predestinationist view.

From the Glossary in Disciples Study Bible:

Election: “God’s gracious action in choosing people to follow Him and obey His commandments.”

Free Will: “The freedom God gives people to make decisions without the decisions being predetermined; the human freedom to reject God’s will or to choose to obey God.”


By “election,” theologians mean God choosing individuals for salvation. God choosing Israel as a nation is something different entirely.
 
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Dale

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Umm in the book of Isaiah alone there are hundreds of references to Election. Idk where you get "no election in the OT from" election is everywhere in the OT.

Another example would be God's promise to Abraham when he promised Abraham descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky. Abraham's descendants are the Elect people chosen by God.

God had an Elect people from the very beginning not just from the Jews but also from the Whole world . From every tribe people and nation.

Neostar: “Another example would be God's promise to Abraham when he promised Abraham descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky. Abraham's descendants are the Elect people chosen by God.”


Physical descent has nothing to do with being part of God’s Elect.

Every promise is not an Election.
 
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BBAS 64

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According to the Doctrine of Election, God elects those who will be saved.

Is the Doctrine of Election Biblical, or is it something invented by theologians?

International Standard Bible Encyclopedia (ISBE) under Election:

“The word is absent from the Old Testament …”


The Old Testament is more than half the Bible.
The ISBE is very conservative, favorable to creationism and predestination.
It’s interesting that the ISBE can find no mention of “election” in the Old Testament.
Good Day, Dale

NT election is defined:

eklogē
Thayer Definition:
1) the act of picking out, choosing
1a) of the act of God’s free will by which before the foundation of the world he decreed his blessings to certain persons
1b) the decree made from choice by which he determined to bless certain persons through Christ by grace alone
2) a thing or person chosen
2a) of persons: God’s elect

Are you suggesting that God did not Choose Israel ( his treasured possession) from among all the nation of the world to be His Covenant people?

You may find this helpful as it relates to OC and NC election:


In Him,

Bill
 
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Dale

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Good Day, Dale

NT election is defined:

eklogē
Thayer Definition:
1) the act of picking out, choosing
1a) of the act of God’s free will by which before the foundation of the world he decreed his blessings to certain persons
1b) the decree made from choice by which he determined to bless certain persons through Christ by grace alone
2) a thing or person chosen
2a) of persons: God’s elect

Are you suggesting that God did not Choose Israel ( his treasured possession) from among all the nation of the world to be His Covenant people?

You may find this helpful as it relates to OC and NC election:


In Him,

Bill

BBAS: “Are you suggesting that God did not Choose Israel ( his treasured possession) from among all the nation of the world to be His Covenant people?”

I said nothing about the nation of Israel in the OP. In my experience, the Doctrine of Election means God choosing individual souls for salvation.

Why are you trying to change the subject?
 
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BBAS 64

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BBAS: “Are you suggesting that God did not Choose Israel ( his treasured possession) from among all the nation of the world to be His Covenant people?”

I said nothing about the nation of Israel in the OP. In my experience, the Doctrine of Election means God choosing individual souls for salvation.

Why are you trying to change the subject?
Good Day, Dale

I am not changing the subject.

NT Election = the act of picking out, choosing

God Choose Israel as him Covenant people ( his people) would you agree?
In the same way He chooses His New Covenant people and yes he does save them, as the NC only has believers in it.

You may find this helpful to your understanding:



[SNIP]
Election is the divine choice of God to grant eternal life to undeserving sinners based solely on his love and not on the goodness of those receiving his grace. It is not arbitrary but part of his grand plan of salvation and grounded in his eternal wisdom. Paul indicates that God elected or predestined his people “in love.”1 That God sovereignly elects a people for himself is not original to Paul but is a theme that runs throughout the Bible. In the Old Testament, God graciously chose Abraham and blessed him to become a blessing to the nations (Gen. 12:1–3). Later, God chose the nation of Israel to be his treasured possession, not because they were greater than the other nations or because of their righteousness, but because of his love (Deut. 7:6–8; 14:2). Similarly, in Christ, God chose individuals from all the peoples of the world to become his people, a decision based on his amazing love.

Paul also indicates that God’s election is rooted in the work of Christ. Four times in Ephesians 1:3–6 he links the blessings of God’s sovereign, electing grace to the Son: we are blessed “in Christ” (Eph. 1:3); we are chosen “in him” (Eph 1:4); we are adopted “through Jesus Christ” (Eph. 1:5); and we are blessed because of being “in the Beloved” (Eph. 1:5). The blessings we receive are reserved specifically for those who are united with Christ through faith, those who trust in his death, resurrection, and ascension. The ability to call God our Father is possible only through Christ, who alone provides access to the Father because of Christ’s finished work on the cross. Christ is not only the recipient par excellence of the Father’s love and affection (Col. 1:13), but it is through his beloved Son that we receive his blessings. Furthermore, God’s work of predestination was done “according to the purpose of his will” (Eph. 1:5). The basis of God’s choice was his own will carried out in accordance with his “purpose,” or “good pleasure,” indicating that the choosing of his people was something in which God delighted. God’s choice was also done in accordance with his “will.” God has a definite plan and redemptive purpose for adopting wayward sinners into his family.

In Him,

Bill
 
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Clare73

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According to the Doctrine of Election, God elects those who will be saved.
Is the Doctrine of Election Biblical, or is it something invented by theologians?
International Standard Bible Encyclopedia (ISBE) under Election:
“The word is absent from the Old Testament …
”The Old Testament is more than half the Bible.
The ISBE is very conservative, favorable to creationism and predestination.
It’s interesting that the ISBE can find no mention of “election” in the Old Testament.
Is there specific mention of the Trinity in the OT?

Is there specific mention of the "sovereignty" of God in the OT?

Is there specific mention of atonement for sin by the Messiah in the OT?

Is there specific mention of the Bride of the Messiah in the OT?

Is there specific mention of the termination of the animal sacrifices in the OT?

Why you pickin' on "election"?
 
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Mark Quayle

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Read Rom 9:7--11 , and Rom 11;1---7 .

dan p
Huh? I don't follow your reasoning there. Why should that mean that the Illinois State Board of Elections would care about Election? :p
 
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Mark Quayle

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According to the Doctrine of Election, God elects those who will be saved.

Is the Doctrine of Election Biblical, or is it something invented by theologians?

International Standard Bible Encyclopedia (ISBE) under Election:

“The word is absent from the Old Testament …”


The Old Testament is more than half the Bible.
The ISBE is very conservative, favorable to creationism and predestination.
It’s interesting that the ISBE can find no mention of “election” in the Old Testament.
Is there specific mention of the Trinity in the OT?

Is there specific mention of atonement for sin by the Messiah in the OT?

Is there specific mention of the Bride of the Messiah in the OT?

Is there specific mention of the termination of the animal sacrifices in the OT?

Why you pickin' on "election"?
There are New Testament mentions of Old Testament ELECTION.

Romans 9:11 "For being not yet born, neither having done anything good or bad, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him who calls,"

Romans 11:7 "What then? What the people of Israel sought so earnestly they did not obtain. The elect among them did, but the others were hardened"
 
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anetazo

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The theology scholars and seminaries teach contrary to God's word. John chapter 7:14 to 7:19. The fake religious leaders accused Jesus of false teachings. When in fact the pharisees went to seminary and indoctrinate of theology. The pharisee taught traditions of men. Jesus told the truth. Jesus was always morally right. Abraham is one of God's Elect. God called Abraham out of Ur, in Iraq. God called Moses to service. Another of God's Elect. God's Election aren't in old testament. Get real !. Ephesians chapter 2;20. And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief corner stone. Psalm chapter 127:1. Except the Lord build the house, They labour in vain that build it. Except the Lord keep the city, the watchman wakes but in vain. God chose and foreordained His election in the first earth age. The position can't be volunteered for. God's Election are called and chosen. Samuel prophet is one of God's Elect. Elijah the prophet. Deborah prophetess. Apostle Paul, Luke, Peter, john, Andrew, James, ect, ect. Get the picture. God handpicked and Judged the Election in the first earth age. Read Roman's chapter 8, chapter 11 and ephesians chapter 1.
 
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Dale

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The theology scholars and seminaries teach contrary to God's word. John chapter 7:14 to 7:19. The fake religious leaders accused Jesus of false teachings. When in fact the pharisees went to seminary and indoctrinate of theology. The pharisee taught traditions of men. Jesus told the truth. Jesus was always morally right. Abraham is one of God's Elect. God called Abraham out of Ur, in Iraq. God called Moses to service. Another of God's Elect. God's Election aren't in old testament. Get real !. Ephesians chapter 2;20. And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief corner stone. Psalm chapter 127:1. Except the Lord build the house, They labour in vain that build it. Except the Lord keep the city, the watchman wakes but in vain. God chose and foreordained His election in the first earth age. The position can't be volunteered for. God's Election are called and chosen. Samuel prophet is one of God's Elect. Elijah the prophet. Deborah prophetess. Apostle Paul, Luke, Peter, john, Andrew, James, ect, ect. Get the picture. God handpicked and Judged the Election in the first earth age. Read Roman's chapter 8, chapter 11 and ephesians chapter 1.

Anetazo: “Samuel prophet is one of God's Elect. Elijah the prophet. Deborah prophetess.”

You make it sound like only one person in a million is one of the elect.


Anetazo: “Apostle Paul, Luke, Peter, john, Andrew, James, ect, ect.


Judas was called with the other Apostles, yet John tells us that he was a thief. (John 12:4-6) Jesus says that one of the Apostles is “a devil,” which obviously means Judas, in John 6:70-71. We are told that Satan entered into Judas in Luke 22:3. Matthew quotes Jesus saying, “But woe to that man who betrays the Son of Man! It would be better for him if he had not been born.” (Matthew 26:24)

Not everyone who is called responds to the call. There is always an element of choice.
 
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DingDing

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According to the Doctrine of Election, God elects those who will be saved.

Is the Doctrine of Election Biblical, or is it something invented by theologians?

...

Hello,
I'm going to say that the doctrine of election is biblical, but not how reformed theology defines it. Do you want to discuss? If so, let me know.
 
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Dale

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Hello,
I'm going to say that the doctrine of election is biblical, but not how reformed theology defines it. Do you want to discuss? If so, let me know.

I'd be interested in knowing how you reached that conclusion.
 
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DingDing

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I'd be interested in knowing how you reached that conclusion.
Well, "election", or the "elect", however you want to define it/them, is spoken of in scripture; many cite Ephesians chapter 1 for example. It is just that the reformed version of individual election fails to fit scripture in too many places. So, what is the definition of election (or the "elect") that you would like to discuss - no matter which way you feel about it. I have my opinions, but am willing to discuss openly.
 
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Dale

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Well, "election", or the "elect", however you want to define it/them, is spoken of in scripture; many cite Ephesians chapter 1 for example. It is just that the reformed version of individual election fails to fit scripture in too many places. So, what is the definition of election (or the "elect") that you would like to discuss - no matter which way you feel about it. I have my opinions, but am willing to discuss openly.

DingDing,

Thanks for your interest. I am having trouble figuring out why people are talking about “election” in the Old Testament. The word “elect” does not appear in the OT and “election” does not appear in the OT or the Gospels in the NIV translation. It is well known that the Old Testament puts heavy emphasis on actions. Judaism today puts strong emphasis on actions, as opposed to beliefs.

Look at the Book of Job.

In the land of Uz there lived a man whose name was Job. This man was blameless and upright; he feared God and shunned evil.
Job 1:1 NIV

In the first verse, we are told four times that Job was righteous. He is “blameless,” “upright,” “feared God” and “shunned evil.”

Later, when God speaks to Job:

“Where were you when I laid the earth’s foundation? Tell me, if you understand.”
Job 38:4

Notice that God doesn’t say, “You were on the list of the Elect before the earth’s foundation was laid.” Job would be a logical person to be on that list, but if there is such a list, there is no mention of it.
 
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