Nike recalls trainers. So is the Betsy Ross flag racist?

[Shiloh Raven]

I have seen that, but I have also seen Native Americans that emphasize the US was created by land theft and exploitation of Native Americans, a member of this forum holds that very view. So I don't think the view you describe is widespread overall (nor do I think the opposite view is either).

Yes, I do hold that view of America. The view on America does vary in Indian Country.

 

[Ana the Ist]

When it is based out of a need to label this or that racist, this what you get. When in doubt, claim racism and ask questions later.

It bugs me that no one holds to a consistent definition of racism. It's this vast and all encompassing definition when we talk about one group....when we talk about another, suddenly there's all these justifications for the same behavior.

 

[bhsmte]

It bugs me that no one holds to a consistent definition of racism. It's this vast and all encompassing definition when we talk about one group....when we talk about another, suddenly there's all these justifications for the same behavior.

What bugs me is; some folks need and want to label something racist and by the way, they only see one type of racism, which is just a tad too convenient.

 

[Shiloh Raven]

The history of the United States is racist, that is simply a fact. That the country has evolved from that past does not make the origins of the country any less racist. The evolution is admirable, but the past is still racist.

Yes, America does have a long history of racism against minorities. The fact is that there have always been people in America attempting to deny other groups of people civil rights and equality because they weren't white and/or Christian. The United States of America was founded upon massive tribal land theft, as well as the forced removals of Native Americans, hundreds of broken treaties, the belief of racial supremacy of white men, legalized slavery, and racism and discrimination against minorities.

It is nothing more than a perpetual and deceptive farce to claim that the United States of America was originally founded upon freedom, liberty and justice for all or it was founded upon Christian principles.

"Our nation was born in genocide when it embraced the doctrine that the original American, the Indian, was an inferior race. Even before there were large numbers of Negroes on our shores, the scar of racial hatred had already disfigured colonial society. From the sixteenth century forward, blood flowed in battles of racial supremacy. We are perhaps the only nation which tried as a matter of national policy to wipe out its Indigenous population. Moreover, we elevated that tragic experience into a noble crusade. Indeed, even today we have not permitted ourselves to reject or feel remorse for this shameful episode. Our literature, our films, our drama, our folklore all exalt it." - Martin Luther King

 

[Ana the Ist]

What bugs me is; some folks need and want to label something racist and by the way, they only see one type of racism, which is just a tad too convenient.

I can understand being more concerned about systemic racism as opposed to interpersonal racism...I think systemic racism does more damage to particular racial groups.

I can understand the point of showing how historical racism has affected the present.

What I don't understand is when these things are used to justify racist views today. I.e. "These people did this, so I'm justified in holding these racist views about them."

 

[bhsmte]

I can understand being more concerned about systemic racism as opposed to interpersonal racism...I think systemic racism does more damage to particular racial groups.

I can understand the point of showing how historical racism has affected the present.

What I don't understand is when these things are used to justify racist views today. I.e. "These people did this, so I'm justified in holding these racist views about them."

Folks with a chip on their shoulder, need to hang onto the past, to feed the chip. 5hey cant move ahead, because they have to hold on.

 

[section9+1]

You obviously haven't met any NDNs from the American Indian Movement as I have or attended a public NDN demonstration where the American flag is either hung upside down or burnt to the ground in ashes. Admittedly, there are a few assimilated NDNs who honor the American flag, but these NDNs aren't in the majority. Below is the more common view of the American flag among NDN activists.

No I guess I haven't. I've just met the ordinary ones who go about their business making a living and getting along seemingly without any burning grievances in their lives. I like them better. The rest I suppose need a reason to get out of bed in the morning, but I'm not very interested.

 

[Shiloh Raven]

No I guess I haven't. I've just met the ordinary ones who go about their business making a living and getting along seemingly without any burning grievances in their lives. I like them better. The rest I suppose need a reason to get out of bed in the morning, but I'm not very interested.

I would like to share this article addressing Native Americans being told to get over the past and move on: ‘No I Won’t Just Move On’ Hashtag: Why I Made It, We Need It. I posted a few articles on the psychological studies that have been done on the Historical Trauma and Intergenerational Trauma among Native Americans in my previous post link of trauma, PTSD and the high suicide rate among native youth. The articles and videos I posted in my linked post are very concise and informative.

And for the record, I wasn't only referring to the past atrocities and injustices committed against Native Americans in the past. I was also referring to the continuous breaking of the tribal treaties to encroach upon what scraps of tribal lands are left like in Standing Rock and with Keystone XL Pipeline or the late Senator John McCain attempting to sell Oak Flats San Carlos Apache land to a foreign mining company or Trump's advisors wanting to privatize NDN reservations or Trump wanting to built his border wall on Tohono O’odham Nation tribal land or the attempted tribal land grabs by Republican senators or the water crisis in the Navajo Nation where 40% of the Navajo don't have clean water.

The current Native American population is only 2.9 million or about 0.9 percent of the entire population in the U.S. (source). From the current statistics, it does feel like Native Americans are almost extinct. Police brutality against Native Americans is the highest in the country according to the data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (source), but it is the least talked about when police brutality against black people and other minorities is being addressed. And the suicide rate among native youth is the highest in the country. THE HIGHEST IN THE COUNTRY.

CDC Report Details Suicide Rate in Native Americans

Native Children Have the Same Rate of PTSD as Combat Veterans

Posttraumatic Stress Disorder and Symptoms among American Indians and Alaska Natives

Study Finds American Indian Adults Exposed to Early Life Trauma More Likely to Develop PTSD

It's not so easy to get over all of this.

 

[section9+1]

Don't reservations have their own police forces? I'm not telling you what to do, I'm just not very interested. As far as current issues they can be decided in the courts and I won't say anything either way.

 

[variant]

If you have to explain to me for more than a couple of minuets why something is racist, it probably isn't.

 

[Radagast]

Why is the Betsy Ross flag on it in the first place? I am under the impression that these are somehow 4th of July themed sneakers.

Hence the idea to use the original flag, from the actual time of Independence.

Wikipedia tells me that on June 14, 1777, the Second Continental Congress passed the Flag Resolution which stated: "Resolved, That the flag of the thirteen United States be thirteen stripes, alternate red and white; that the union be thirteen stars, white in a blue field, representing a new constellation."

 

[Ana the Ist]

Don't reservations have their own police forces?

Frequently....but not always as I understand it.

 

[Hieronymus]

Obama inauguration.

 

[rjs330]

It probably isn't.
But some nationalist, who Kapernik, Nike or some other PC whiner would call racist, probably has one at home or something...

If some racial supremacist waves his country's old flag it doesn't make that flag nor that country nor it's history racist.
Probably to complicated for that over payed guy who hates his country.

What's interesting is that Kap claimed his whole kneeling protest thing had nothing to do with disrespecting the country or hating it. It was about police brutality. Apparently he has upped his game and he now hates his country.

I always thought the guy was a hater. Apparently I was right.

 

[rjs330]

Don't reservations have their own police forces? I'm not telling you what to do, I'm just not very interested. As far as current issues they can be decided in the courts and I won't say anything either way.

What you'll find when you read those articles is that the studies are showing the problems that are happening within the Native American population that they are doing to themselves. Much of of what the issues within the population are self inflicted. I read those articles.

That's not to say the Native Americans are not suffering. They are. But most of it these days is self inflicted.

I've met quite a few of them. I really appreciate them as a people. And many of them recognize what I am saying here and wish their people would break out of the behaviors that are holding them back.

America is a land of opportunities. The Native Americans have the same opportunities as everyone else if they would take advantage of them.

 

[CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN]

Obama inauguration.View attachment 258993

I guess Obama and Kap don't agree with these issues . Two different people.BTW, I hope someday Indians get their stolen land back. Then they can put what ever they think, should be on their flag.

 

[Tanj]

Nike pulls sneaker after Kaepernick objection, prompting Republican fury

So because White supremacists have used one of the earliest US flags, does that make it racist?

Got to say on that basis both the union Jack and the England flag would have to be abandoned.

Anyway, back on topic....

"Ducey [Arizona's governor] said he had asked the state’s commerce authority to withdraw financial incentives for Nike to open a manufacturing plant in Arizona."

What are people's thoughts in this? Looks like cutting of your nose to spite your face to me. Don't like a shoe decision, deny a few hundred Arizonians a job.

"Ted Cruz, the Republican senator, said Nike “only wants to sell sneakers to people who hate the American flag”"
I think that might well be the silliest thing any human being has ever said. Ever.

Finally, I think Nike would like the right wing poutrage to continue.

Despite a backlash from some conservatives, Nike said it saw sales increase by 31% following the campaign’s launch. Its share price has risen more than 15% so far this year.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Anyway, back on topic....

"Ducey [Arizona's governor] said he had asked the state’s commerce authority to withdraw financial incentives for Nike to open a manufacturing plant in Arizona."

What are people's thoughts in this? Looks like cutting of your nose to spite your face to me. Don't like a shoe decision, deny a few hundred Arizonians a job.

"Ted Cruz, the Republican senator, said Nike “only wants to sell sneakers to people who hate the American flag”"
I think that might well be the silliest thing any human being has ever said. Ever.

Finally, I think Nike would like the right wing poutrage to continue.

Despite a backlash from some conservatives, Nike said it saw sales increase by 31% following the campaign’s launch. Its share price has risen more than 15% so far this year.

If they're doing so well then I'm sure they don't really need those financial incentives to open a manufacturing plant.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Anyway, back on topic....

"Ducey [Arizona's governor] said he had asked the state’s commerce authority to withdraw financial incentives for Nike to open a manufacturing plant in Arizona."

What are people's thoughts in this? Looks like cutting of your nose to spite your face to me. Don't like a shoe decision, deny a few hundred Arizonians a job.

"Ted Cruz, the Republican senator, said Nike “only wants to sell sneakers to people who hate the American flag”"
I think that might well be the silliest thing any human being has ever said. Ever.

Finally, I think Nike would like the right wing poutrage to continue.

Despite a backlash from some conservatives, Nike said it saw sales increase by 31% following the campaign’s launch. Its share price has risen more than 15% so far this year.

Or maybe they do need the financial incentives....

Nike's North America sales fail to impress, shares slip - Reuters

This is starting to make sense....their stock is dropping, what strategy can they use to boost sales?

How about some hardcore virtue signaling? Unveil plans for a shoe adorned with flag from "slavery times"....ask Colin what he thinks....then announce the shoe won't be made after stirring controversy over whether flag is racist....thereby virtue signaling "maximum wokeness".

Await money of suckers.

 

[Aryeh Jay]

View attachment 258993

Pihosh!, look how empty and deserted it is. Did anyone even show up? All hail Donald Trump!