The Church Custodian Is A Predator

[Gregory Thompson]

Well, sounds like it's not a church at all.

Sorry that happened to you.

My advice is in the next church you go to ensure there is no connectivity with the previous congregation.

Based on how the pastor acted, he's probably gossiped to all of his pastor friends by now.

 

[Sara50840]

Hi Sara,

So sorry to hear about all you are dealing with. You've gotten plenty of good feedback from others, so I will not rehash what others have said up to the point where you said that which I have quoted above. Among other things, one thing which comes to mind is Jesus' words, “And when they persecute you in one town, flee to the next.” (Mt 10:23). I'm not suggesting that you necessarily consider moving to another town, but what I am suggesting is that (using the principle behind Jesus’ words) you consider moving on from your place of employment.

Assuming that everything you are saying is accurate, it seems you are not being supported very well either as a member of the congregation or as an employee. While I admire your dedication to your employer (often a rare find in today's workforce), it seems to me that there may be an over-expectation on the part of those in leadership at your church, if there is no one else who can fill in for you to the point that you are unable to take time off if needed. You cannot be held responsible for what sounds like poor management/leadership, assuming I am understanding the situation correctly.

Jesus expects us to die to our own self-will to the point of adopting a slave-like attitude toward service to others (willingly regarding others more highly than ourselves - Php 2:3). Willingly adopting a slave-like attitude for ourselves, however, is wholly different than having or allowing others treat us as slaves.

Put differently, there is no reason for you to feel bad or guilty for taking care of yourself (think good stewardship) in fundamentally healthy and God-honoring ways. If this man, Tom, truly is repeatedly behaving in sinful ways towards you (and it certainly sounds like he is, having heard only your side of the story and not knowing Tom, myself), I think it is safe to say, Jesus would not expect you to continue putting up with Tom’s sin (God desires mercy over sacrifice - his mercy reigns supreme in regard to your life, over expecting you to sacrificing your well-being and safety for the sake of some church work getting done) as well as the potential sin of the church leadership in not providing a safe working/worship/service environment for you - though in their defense, it sounds like they (unlike those of us here on the forum) know Tom and seem to see him as a good guy and my find your account of the situation hard to believe. Note, I am not suggesting you are lying. I’m simply saying that from their perspective (unlike those of us here), the whole situation is a “he said, she said” sort of thing. Though they seem to have sided with you on some level, that doesn’t mean Tom hasn’t put his own spin on the situation and they are stuck trying to determine, the best they can, what has really happened.

I highly encourage you to move on (trust me, others will figure out how to do your job without you if needed). If Tom is already following you and your sister both on social media, your moving on from your church may not be enough to keep him from continuing to pursue your attention (sorry to say). But staying where you are certainly isn’t going to help, while leaving, on the other hand, might.

You’re under no obligation to stay. I realize all of this is easy for us to say and difficult for you to do, but sometimes we have to do the hard things in life (and staying where you are isn’t going to make things any easier).

Whatever you decide, please be safe. Seek friends/relatives you trust to “always be around” for a time so you’re less likely to “bump into” Tom while out-and-about around town or outside of your home while you are alone.

You and Tom and your church leadership will be in my prayers. Hopefully, the church leadership will see reality for what it is and Tom will get the help he seems to need.

Blessings to you.

I resigned from the church on Sunday. The pastor was starting to become accusatory and seemed like he was trying to force me out. No one was on my side anymore.

And yes everyone thinks that Tom is a good guy, but considering how he’s treated me, manipulated me, and blatantly lied about it to the church, I believe him to be the type of person mentioned in Romans 16:17-18. I don’t know for sure if he’s a Christian. He claims to be a new Christian, and I’m not one to judge whether he is or not, that’s between him and God. But he has everyone fooled that he is this perfect guy. Not to mention the fact that these people have known me my whole life while they’ve only known this guy a couple years.

I told the church about the things that happened and have collected evidence of what has occurred, from pictures of his gifts and notes, screenshots of messages, and recordings of voicemails. I offered the church this evidence to prove my words, but the church didn’t even want it. They didn't want to look at it. It’s like they’d rather pretend like it didn’t happen than do anything about it.

 

[ZephBonkerer]

I resigned from the church on Sunday. The pastor was starting to become accusatory and seemed like he was trying to force me out. No one was on my side anymore.

And yes everyone thinks that Tom is a good guy, but considering how he’s treated me, manipulated me, and blatantly lied about it to the church, I believe him to be the type of person mentioned in Romans 16:17-18. I don’t know for sure if he’s a Christian. He claims to be a new Christian, and I’m not one to judge whether he is or not, that’s between him and God. But he has everyone fooled that he is this perfect guy. Not to mention the fact that these people have known me my whole life while they’ve only known this guy a couple years.

I told the church about the things that happened and have collected evidence of what has occurred, from pictures of his gifts and notes, screenshots of messages, and recordings of voicemails. I offered the church this evidence to prove my words, but the church didn’t even want it. They didn't want to look at it. It’s like they’d rather pretend like it didn’t happen than do anything about it.

I would consider their willful indifference to the truth to be a dead giveaway that they do not honor God. I have no patience at all for such people, especially when they claim to worship the Lord. When someone behaves that way, I generally don't recognize them as fellow believers.

It also pains me to see someone your age having to endure this kind of thing. If I were you, I would shake the dust off from your shoes and consider them unworthy of your presence. That pastor should be regarded as a willing accomplice to Tom's misconduct. What will that pastor do when Tom's behavior becomes an embarrassment to his assembly? On the path they are on, that's a very real possibility.

I myself wasn't even a believer until I was 23. For the most part, I believe the Lord shielded me from most spiritual abuse, until I was more mature in my faith.

The willful indifference to evidence by the church leadership is exactly the kind of thing I dealt with when I was in the process of being excommunicated, disfellowshipped, etc. (I opened another thread where I discussed the details on this). They had already made up their mind and were not about to let trivial considerations like truth or evidence detract from that. People who worship the Lord in spirit and in truth do not wilfully disregard the truth.

 

[RobG]

I resigned from the church on Sunday. The pastor was starting to become accusatory and seemed like he was trying to force me out. No one was on my side anymore.

And yes everyone thinks that Tom is a good guy, but considering how he’s treated me, manipulated me, and blatantly lied about it to the church, I believe him to be the type of person mentioned in Romans 16:17-18. I don’t know for sure if he’s a Christian. He claims to be a new Christian, and I’m not one to judge whether he is or not, that’s between him and God. But he has everyone fooled that he is this perfect guy. Not to mention the fact that these people have known me my whole life while they’ve only known this guy a couple years.

I told the church about the things that happened and have collected evidence of what has occurred, from pictures of his gifts and notes, screenshots of messages, and recordings of voicemails. I offered the church this evidence to prove my words, but the church didn’t even want it. They didn't want to look at it. It’s like they’d rather pretend like it didn’t happen than do anything about it.

Wow! I'm so sorry to hear all of that, Sara. What a shame and a disgrace to the name of Christ for a church who calls themselves Christian.

Sadly, it's not so surprising. My wife and I know a young woman who was raped by someone in her church who was a large financial giver (don't know if that had anything to do with their response), but she essentially was chastised and chased out for daring to accuse her rapist and for stirring up trouble in the congregation. As if being raped wasn't bad enough, everyone around her who should have been there to support her deserted her instead. This all happened several years ago and she is still dealing (largely by not dealing) with the pain of the whole situation.

You are certainly in my prayers.

Blessings to you, Sara.

As sad as the whole situation is, I am glad to hear you have moved on. I pray God is leading you to a much, much safer and healthier place in your life and spiritual life.

 

[Sara50840]

Wow! I'm so sorry to hear all of that, Sara. What a shame and a disgrace to the name of Christ for a church who calls themselves Christian.

Sadly, it's not so surprising. My wife and I know a young woman who was raped by someone in her church who was a large financial giver (don't know if that had anything to do with their response), but she essentially was chastised and chased out for daring to accuse her rapist and for stirring up trouble in the congregation. As if being raped wasn't bad enough, everyone around her who should have been there to support her deserted her instead. This all happened several years ago and she is still dealing (largely by not dealing) with the pain of the whole situation.

You are certainly in my prayers.

Blessings to you, Sara.

As sad as the whole situation is, I am glad to hear you have moved on. I pray God is leading you to a much, much safer and healthier place in your life and spiritual life.

That is so terrible that she went though that. I pray that she finds peace, comfort, and healing.

Fortunately my situation never got physical. I’m so thankful for that. However, that doesn’t mean I’m not still traumatized from the experience. There are a lot of situations now where I cannot fully relax because I’m on full alert. But maybe some of that is useful to protect myself.

I went to the new church for my first Sunday today and really enjoyed it. It already so much better there than it did at my old church, even before all this stuff was happening. There was always something weird about my old church anyway, just by how some people acted. The whole “my way or the highway” type demeanor.

My parents still went to the old church today. They have their own conflicts about whether they want to stay or go. Plus they were really curious if the church would acknowledge my leaving. Turns out the church didn’t even mention me and no one even asked about me. The slides and audio went smoothly, except there was no one to operate the camera, so most people probably didn’t realize I was missing from the tech booth. I guess I’m happy that I was able to equip them for my absence, but I’m also hurt that they don’t even seem to care that I’m gone. They’re usually super nosy about that kind of thing. I figured the pastor would at least tell people I’m gone since my employment and pay was public record (the people would always want to know exactly where their money is and isn’t going lol). But I guess it’s one of the best possible scenarios that he didn’t say anything, that way I can leave quietly and he hopefully won’t throw me under the bus when people finally ask where I am.

 

[ZephBonkerer]

That is so terrible that she went though that. I pray that she finds peace, comfort, and healing.

Fortunately my situation never got physical. I’m so thankful for that. However, that doesn’t mean I’m not still traumatized from the experience. There are a lot of situations now where I cannot fully relax because I’m on full alert. But maybe some of that is useful to protect myself.

I went to the new church for my first Sunday today and really enjoyed it. It already so much better there than it did at my old church, even before all this stuff was happening. There was always something weird about my old church anyway, just by how some people acted. The whole “my way or the highway” type demeanor.

This got me to thinking of something. What recourse do we have against church assembly leaders who abuse their authority? To me, merely going to a new assembly seems to be an inadequate remedy. Do we just have to let them blaspheme God and go unchecked?

To Sara: it might take a few weeks for the other members of the congregation to really notice your absence. Once you've been gone for three or more weeks, they'll know it wasn't because you were out sick.

In Sara's case, the Pastor wilfully disregarded an unreasonable threat to her safety and well being, and may have violated some employment laws in the process. In that other woman's case, they even covered up a sexual assault! What does that kind of thing make us look like to people who don't know God?

This is personal for me for my own reason. Back in 2021, I was forced out of my last church assembly because of my divorce. The leadership displayed a reckless and willful disregard for the circumstances in my case, like they did in Sara's case. They even lied to me regarding their own policies!

I haven't had a regular church home since. I also have had little contact with other believers since except for online places like ChristianForums. Granted, that is largely due to the serious trust issues I have with other believers resulting from how they dealt with me during my divorce.

 

[Sara50840]

This got me to thinking of something. What recourse do we have against church assembly leaders who abuse their authority? To me, merely going to a new assembly seems to be an inadequate remedy. Do we just have to let them blaspheme God and go unchecked?

To Sara: it might take a few weeks for the other members of the congregation to really notice your absence. Once you've been gone for three or more weeks, they'll know it wasn't because you were out sick.

In Sara's case, the Pastor wilfully disregarded an unreasonable threat to her safety and well being, and may have violated some employment laws in the process. In that other woman's case, they even covered up a sexual assault! What does that kind of thing make us look like to people who don't know God?

This is personal for me for my own reason. Back in 2021, I was forced out of my last church assembly because of my divorce. The leadership displayed a reckless and willful disregard for the circumstances in my case, like they did in Sara's case. They even lied to me regarding their own policies!

I haven't had a regular church home since. I also have had little contact with other believers since except for online places like ChristianForums. Granted, that is largely due to the serious trust issues I have with other believers resulting from how they dealt with me during my divorce.

Unfortunately this misuse of authority and disregard for circumstances is why so many people give up on church. For some believers, their faith is strong enough to continue, but for many, they refuse to be a Christian because how they’ve been treated by the church. It’s so sad that many of the things that keep people from becoming Christians are actually Christians themselves, or at least those who claim to be Christians. That’s what Satan is using against us today: ourselves.

 

[ZephBonkerer]

Unfortunately this misuse of authority and disregard for circumstances is why so many people give up on church. For some believers, their faith is strong enough to continue, but for many, they refuse to be a Christian because how they’ve been treated by the church. It’s so sad that many of the things that keep people from becoming Christians are actually Christians themselves, or at least those who claim to be Christians. That’s what Satan is using against us today: ourselves.

That's a big part of my concern as well. I've been a solid believer since I was 23 (now 46), so my Faith in God has not diminished in any way.

I stopped attending church largely because I have better things to do on Sunday morning than to suffer the presence of ding dongs who would treat me like a 2nd class citizen because of my divorce. (I was adamant that I had every right to date and eventually remarry and that I would accept no doctrine that claims otherwise.)

But there's another reason why the traditional church format isn't working for me. I'm often out on Saturday night, usually at a dance social, nightclub, or some other gathering. Getting up early the morning after seems to be a bit much only to sing songs, listen to some guy talk for an hour, then to see most people to hit the exits shortly thereafter. If I'm not forming relationships with people there, then I might as well stay home and watch the Trinity Broadcasting Network.

For most of my adult life, my friends came mostly from church. But this is not the case today. It was actually my friends in the dance community that supported me when I was excommunicated.

 

[Sara50840]

That's a big part of my concern as well. I've been a solid believer since I was 23 (now 46), so my Faith in God has not diminished in any way.

I stopped attending church largely because I have better things to do on Sunday morning than to suffer the presence of ding dongs who would treat me like a 2nd class citizen because of my divorce. (I was adamant that I had every right to date and eventually remarry and that I would accept no doctrine that claims otherwise.)

But there's another reason why the traditional church format isn't working for me. I'm often out on Saturday night, usually at a dance social, nightclub, or some other gathering. Getting up early the morning after seems to be a bit much only to sing songs, listen to some guy talk for an hour, then to see most people to hit the exits shortly thereafter. If I'm not forming relationships with people there, then I might as well stay home and watch the Trinity Broadcasting Network.

For most of my adult life, my friends came mostly from church. But this is not the case today. It was actually my friends in the dance community that supported me when I was excommunicated.

Yeah, churches are supposed to welcome all people because in God’s eyes we are all worthy of Him.

It sounds like you would benefit from a good small group. Support from Christian friends who can confide in each other and hold each other accountable spiritually is what builds those relationships that we as human beings crave. They also can meet at any time of the day or week. If you don’t want to commit to Sunday morning in-person church, having a small group to meet with would be a great way to get that Christian fellowship. Matthew 18:20 - “For where two or three are gathered in My name, I am there among them."

Small groups don’t have to be connected to a church or take place at church. You can meet with Christian friends at a Starbucks or host Bible studies at each other’s houses. I’ve done this throughout my life with different small groups and it’s a huge part of why I’m still a Christian today, because that connection is something I need.

 

[RobG]

This got me to thinking of something. What recourse do we have against church assembly leaders who abuse their authority? To me, merely going to a new assembly seems to be an inadequate remedy. Do we just have to let them blaspheme God and go unchecked?

To Sara: it might take a few weeks for the other members of the congregation to really notice your absence. Once you've been gone for three or more weeks, they'll know it wasn't because you were out sick.

In Sara's case, the Pastor wilfully disregarded an unreasonable threat to her safety and well being, and may have violated some employment laws in the process. In that other woman's case, they even covered up a sexual assault! What does that kind of thing make us look like to people who don't know God?

This is personal for me for my own reason. Back in 2021, I was forced out of my last church assembly because of my divorce. The leadership displayed a reckless and willful disregard for the circumstances in my case, like they did in Sara's case. They even lied to me regarding their own policies!

I haven't had a regular church home since. I also have had little contact with other believers since except for online places like ChristianForums. Granted, that is largely due to the serious trust issues I have with other believers resulting from how they dealt with me during my divorce.

Sorry to hear your story as well. I'm praying for you to find good, meaningful and rich fellowship with others and with Jesus. I'm in the process of beginning a discipleship ministry and I hear stories like yours and Sara's and my heart breaks for you and I wish my wife and I could do more to disciple you both (and many others) in person, but that is not practical. Online could be of some benefit, but in-person (life-on-life, so to speak) is best and is what God is calling me to first and foremost. If either of you is in the Cincinnati, Ohio area, maybe we could figure out how to meet (in a public place of course). Otherwise, I hope and pray for the best for both of you in your local areas.

Blessings to you both.

ADDED LATER:
Assuming you are a genuine made-new believer in Christ, I guess I failed to remind you just how much God loves you and he is right there with you in your challenges and struggles. I urge you to seek his wisdom, guidance, counsel and strength as you discern his will for you. You are so dearly loved and precious to him and he is most certainly working all of this for your good and your spiritual growth.

One thing I have learned in my own trials and sufferings of one kind or another is to take my eyes off of myself and off of the situation and to set my focus squarely on Jesus and his will for me, recognizing that whatever the trial may be it is for my benefit. "You have my attention, Lord. What do you have for me to learn? Whatever it is, I praise and thank you for this trial." This is what I have learned to do and how to perceive things in the midst of suffering (which is not in any way intended to sound like boastfulness in myself, but in Jesus and what he has taught me - all glory to him alone). Scripture speaks of the fellowship we share with Christ in our suffering. I hope and pray for you to experience sweet fellowship with Jesus as you seek to understand and to learn from the challenges you are in the midst of in this season of your life.

Blessing to you.

 

[RobG]

That is so terrible that she went though that. I pray that she finds peace, comfort, and healing.

Fortunately my situation never got physical. I’m so thankful for that. However, that doesn’t mean I’m not still traumatized from the experience. There are a lot of situations now where I cannot fully relax because I’m on full alert. But maybe some of that is useful to protect myself.

I went to the new church for my first Sunday today and really enjoyed it. It already so much better there than it did at my old church, even before all this stuff was happening. There was always something weird about my old church anyway, just by how some people acted. The whole “my way or the highway” type demeanor.

My parents still went to the old church today. They have their own conflicts about whether they want to stay or go. Plus they were really curious if the church would acknowledge my leaving. Turns out the church didn’t even mention me and no one even asked about me. The slides and audio went smoothly, except there was no one to operate the camera, so most people probably didn’t realize I was missing from the tech booth. I guess I’m happy that I was able to equip them for my absence, but I’m also hurt that they don’t even seem to care that I’m gone. They’re usually super nosy about that kind of thing. I figured the pastor would at least tell people I’m gone since my employment and pay was public record (the people would always want to know exactly where their money is and isn’t going lol). But I guess it’s one of the best possible scenarios that he didn’t say anything, that way I can leave quietly and he hopefully won’t throw me under the bus when people finally ask where I am.

Good morning Sara,

I'm so glad and encouraged to hear you had a positive experience at your new church!

I would encourage you not to take it personally that you were not mentioned on Sunday at your old church. As you suggested, it may be just as well and it may be intentional on their part for any number of reasons (hopefully with right intentions) as them deemed best.

Also, I hope and pray your parents current indecisiveness does not lead to any sort of rift between you and them. I couldn't possibly know what the current church means to them (it sounds as though they have been there for a long, long time). Surely they are conflicted after the situation with you. I implore you not to take it too personally or to hold it against them should they decide to stay. Some people really have a hard time dealing with change and there may be any number of other factors involved in any decision they would make. For your own spiritual well being and for the sake of your ongoing relationship, I really do plead with you to seek God's wisdom, counsel, guidance and strength in being as understanding as possible and as forgiving as needed (if needed).

Rich blessings to you in you continued discernment and growth, Sara. God loves you so much and he holds you near in the palm of his hand.

 

[ZephBonkerer]

...If either of you is in the Cincinnati, Ohio area, maybe we could figure out how to meet (in a public place of course). Otherwise, I hope and pray for the best for both of you in your local areas.

You've got to be kidding me! I live right in Cincinnati just a few miles off I-75, less than ten minutes from downtown. If you can make it to Fountain Square tonight, I'll be there. My name's Daniel, I have short red hair, I wear cowboy boots, and I will probably be wearing a black T shirt.

There will be a live band there, and there will be some dancing. If you ask someone near the statue for Daniel with the description I provided, there's a good chance they'll know who you are after. Nearly all of the regulars there know me. If you mention "CinciMovement", even better.

 

[RobG]

Sorry to hear your story as well. I'm praying for you to find good, meaningful and rich fellowship with others and with Jesus. I'm in the process of beginning a discipleship ministry and I hear stories like yours and Sara's and my heart breaks for you and I wish my wife and I could do more to disciple you both (and many others) in person, but that is not practical. Online could be of some benefit, but in-person (life-on-life, so to speak) is best and is what God is calling me to first and foremost. If either of you is in the Cincinnati, Ohio area, maybe we could figure out how to meet (in a public place of course). Otherwise, I hope and pray for the best for both of you in your local areas.

Blessings to you both.

I guess I failed to mention

You've got to be kidding me! I live right in Cincinnati just a few miles off I-75, less than ten minutes from downtown. If you can make it to Fountain Square tonight, I'll be there. My name's Daniel, I have short red hair, I wear cowboy boots, and I will probably be wearing a black T shirt.

There will be a live band there, and there will be some dancing. If you ask someone near the statue for Daniel with the description I provided, there's a good chance they'll know who you are after. Nearly all of the regulars there know me. If you mention "CinciMovement", even better.

Hi Daniel,

Good to know you are nearby. I'm a bit north of you in the Mt Healthy/Colerain area. Not sure I can make it tonight. I've had this forum account for a while, but I am new to actually using forums to add posts. Do you know if there is a way to send me a private message here (so we're not announcing private info publicly). If not maybe we can figure out a way to connect off of this site, through facebook or something (though I have an account I don't use/now how to use there also - but my wife uses facebook). Thoughts?

 

[hislegacy]

You have done a good job of documenting the issue.

I would produce it in writing and present it to the Pastor and explain if he doesn't do something to protect you, the next step is filing for an order of protection.

 

[David Kent]

Hi Sara. I think you should be open with members about why you left, not only about Tom, but also the pastor and deacons. He could do the same or worse to others.

 

[OldAbramBrown]

1 - you had indeed forgiven Tom at the appropriate distance and it didn't require your presence. Churches that don't understand a human as well as (true) Scriptural basic have lots of problems of all kinds.
2 - you could get your sister to not include you in her videos for a while?
3 - obviously Tom is doing this to others and you have done a VERY high calibre job in informing the church management and a limited but sufficient circle of members as well as your usual work for them. They can now be left to watch themselves unravelling cluelessly without any fault to you.